Alex McKinnon possibly Quadriplegic - Mclean guilty of dangerous throw - 7 weeks

[Big_nick]

So it's confirmed he fractured C4-C5, with the mechanism of his injury he may have some disc damage but at least the worst case scenarios can be ruled out. Very unlucky for the guy, and wish him the best on his road to recovery.

On the tackle, the storm blokes did get him above the horizontal (only by 5-10 degrees but it's still over). There is no way it was intentional and would be ridiculous to see anything over a grade 1 or 2. To compare a suspension from a shoulder charge vs this is just ridiculous. The extent of an Injury should never influence judiciary.

 

[DRAGONZ_RULE]

We can't start dishing out punishments based on the severity of injuries.

Isn't this what the criminal justice system does??

Let's say you punch someone in the head, and then look at that the different possible charges arising from the exact same act.

1) The person dies. You get charged with either murder or manslaughter (depending on intent).

2) The person is seriously injured but lives. You get charged with assault occasioning GBH (or potentially attempted murder depending on intent).

3) The person ends up with a cut over their eye, but otherwise fine. You get charged with assault (well technically battery).

4) The person doesn't get hurt whatsoever. Unlikely to be charged at all.


You committed the same act in all instances ... and yet depending on the severity of the injury, you get charged with different crimes.

 

[Noname36]

im not defending those suggesting he did it to himself

so the nrl got something wrong with snowden, best we keep making the same mistake going forward so as to not upset the knights? :crazy:

That's just it though. The NRL has made a stance with the Snowden thing. They said this was going to happen going forward. So what if it doesn't now? Doesn't that suggest that they're happy to make an example and punish Snowden because JT asked them to but it doesn't matter what's happened to Alex McKinnon?

 

[Stinkler]

Isn't this what the criminal justice system does??

Let's say you punch someone in the head, and then look at that the different possible charges arising from the exact same act.

1) The person dies. You get charged with either murder or manslaughter (depending on intent).

2) The person is seriously injured but lives. You get charged with assault occasioning GBH (or potentially attempted murder depending on intent).

3) The person ends up with a cut over their eye, but otherwise fine. You get charged with assault (well technically battery).

4) The person doesn't get hurt whatsoever. Unlikely to be charged at all.


You committed the same act in all instances ... and yet depending on the severity of the injury, you get charged with different crimes.

If you want to go down that path, disband the NRL Judiciary, and let's hear the Grade 1 Careless High Tackle charge in the Supreme Court!!!

This is sport, not criminal activity.

 

[Canard]

That's just it though. The NRL has made a stance with the Snowden thing. They said this was going to happen going forward. So what if it doesn't now? Doesn't that suggest that they're happy to make an example and punish Snowden because JT asked them to but it doesn't matter what's happened to Alex McKinnon?

So was it established in that case that the extent of the injury influenced the length of suspension? Im not having a go, Im asking a genuine question.

 

[DRAGONZ_RULE]

If you want to go down that path, disband the NRL Judiciary, and let's hear the Grade 1 Careless High Tackle charge in the Supreme Court!!!

This is sport, not criminal activity.

That's not what I'm saying ... what I'm saying is that taking the victim's injuries into account when determining the crime / punishment is very much a normal part of life.

It's not a crazy idea, contrary to what a number of people on here are suggesting.

 

[jamesgould]

So it's confirmed he fractured C4-C5, with the mechanism of his injury he may have some disc damage but at least the worst case scenarios can be ruled out. Very unlucky for the guy, and wish him the best on his road to recovery.

On the tackle, the storm blokes did get him above the horizontal (only by 5-10 degrees but it's still over). There is no way it was intentional and would be ridiculous to see anything over a grade 1 or 2. To compare a suspension from a shoulder charge vs this is just ridiculous. The extent of an Injury should never influence judiciary.

Unless you know something I don't, the doctors don't know how badly his spinal cord is injured yet, only that it isn't severed. I wouldn't rule out any scenario yet.

Why do you think the extent of the injury should never influence the judiciary? Just interested in your view.

 

[jamesgould]

So was it established in that case that the extent of the injury influenced the length of suspension? Im not having a go, Im asking a genuine question.

It was, but I seem to recall at the time they said that the injury can only be taken into account if the charge is referred rather than given a grading? Someone will correct me if I'm wrong.

Edit: sorry, that was wrong - this is what I was thinking of:

Under the NRL judiciary code of procedure, match reviewers cannot charge a player as a result of their injuries, but once he is charged, they can attach a higher grading as a result of them.

Source: http://m.smh.com.au/rugby-league/le...injury-swayed-snowden-ban-20130827-2soe5.html

 

[Noname36]

So was it established in that case that the extent of the injury influenced the length of suspension? Im not having a go, Im asking a genuine question.

Yes, they made that very clear.

The Knights tried to get it downgraded by arguing that Snowden was more just standing his ground so it wasn't a proper shoulder charge and the intent was minimal but they said it didn't matter they were basing the suspension length on the injury sustained.

 

[Apey]

I'm pretty ambivalent about handing out suspensions in all honesty, I mean if we're going to be consistent (consistently dumb) then yeah, they should be sitting out for many weeks.

Lots of people saying they don't see the connection to the shoulder charge. The shoulder charge was banned to prevent potential injuries, the exact same reason that lifting above the horizontal has always been illegal. It's not like either is always going to result in an injury but it's all about if something does go wrong. What happens after the act is mostly irrelevant (and this should be reflected in the suspension, i.e the injury shouldn't dictate the punishment unless it was deliberate), the offender should be punished for the illegal tackle. In saying that though, I wouldn't mind seeing a harsher base penalty for something like this considering the harm we have seen it can cause.

Of course, who knows what they will do with this one.

 

[El Diablo]

I hope its not as bad we think. Feel for Alex and hope he makes a speedy recovery.

We dont want this to happen to any player.

And yes the tackle was illegal because he was put in a dangerous position.

Will he the Storm player get a lenghthy suspension based on the injury? Who knows.

The main concern is Alex McKinnon

i'd bet it's not at the DT

their main concern will be using this to attack the game

 

[The Mad Hatter]

Comment removed.

 

[Tonearm Terrorwrist]

I'll give a f**k as much as all those merkins who told us it was GI's fault he was tipped on his head.

Dumping Inglis on to his head was for his own protection.

 

[adamkungl]

You could argue that it is sensible for injury to be taken into account in the punishment, as is normal in society, if what caused the injury was a deliberate or lazy act of foul play, and how severe the act was.

I used to disagree with that, but I'm coming around to changing my mind.

So the question is

- Was it a dangerous throw?

- How bad was it?

I don't think it was a dangerous throw. McLean grabbed one leg, the other was not lifted off the ground, and the tackle toppled and twisted due to the weight of the two high defenders driving. At the last moment McKinnon tucks his neck. As a result of all of this, McKinnon ended up *slightly* over the horizontal and landed head/neck first. I don't think McLean's leg grab was the main or even a significant factor in this compared to the other things.

Here's the rulebook on dangerous throws

If, in any tackle of, or contact with, an opponent that player
is so lifted that he is placed in a position where it is likely
that the first part of his body to make contact with the
ground will be his head or neck (“the dangerous position&#8221,
then that tackle or contact will be deemed to be a
dangerous throw unless, with the exercise of reasonable
care, the dangerous position could not have been avoided

I don't think McLean could have predicted or avoided that from happening, with so many things out of his control.

If the judiciary argues it was McLeans fault, I think it would be hard to grade it above a grade 1. There was little to no "lift", McKinnon was at worst a fraction past horiztonal right at the end, and there were a lot of factors outside his control.

 

[The Mad Hatter]

From the replays I've seen, it was an accident.

Where's Gus Gould in the media saying 'it's just one of those things'?

 

[jargan83]

My thoughts go out to Alex McKinnon and his family and I hope he recovers.

i'd bet it's not at the DT

their main concern will be using this to attack the game

You mean like this article I read this morning calling for the 10 metre rule to be scrapped.

http://www.news.com.au/sport/nrl/al...s-steve-mortimer/story-fndv33vy-1226864043926

 

[franklin2323]

Slightly off topic.....

My main issue with this incident is that the Melbourne player wasn't sent off.

We can argue about the suspension all we want, but I believe if an act of foul play results in a player not returning, they should be sent. 1 penalty can't compensate for playing with 16 players.

3 in the tackle rarely get sent off. Hell no one is ever sent off these days

 

[El Diablo]

You mean like this article I read this morning calling for the 10 metre rule to be scrapped.

http://www.news.com.au/sport/nrl/al...s-steve-mortimer/story-fndv33vy-1226864043926

wouldn't surprise me if they did high fives when it happened

 

[God-King Dean]

If the Independent Commission are serious, they suspend McKinnon.

 

[Card Shark]

Earlier in the game Ben Hampton was put in a dangerous position..play on.

Lucky, no harm done.