Andrew Johns vs Darren Lockyer

[isaiah]

Joey would have went down as the greatest player of all time, if he somehow orchastrated a comeback to beat the Roosters in 2002....

Match Winning plays on all levels?

Club - 1997 Grand Final, 2003 sideline conversion
Origin - 2005 Origin series.
International - Man of the Match in 1995 World Cup Final, one of 3 MOTM is that campaign.

Lockyer = Better Career, Johns = Better Player.

never could have been greatest of all time. early in his career, he couldn;t even get picked at 7 for nsw, wasn;t it toovey?
you mention his one great origin series, langer had multiple great series, lewis dominated origin for a decade, even at 21 or 22, he was head and shoulders the best player on the field

 

[Silent Knight]

crazy canetoads.

You're fortunate Pervy you don't have to live amongst them. So much delusion I'd laugh if it wasn't so sad.

 

[Jubes]

Still beg to differ .......if "joey" could walk on water he still wouldn't go down as the greatest of all time

Not with Lewis in front of him

Yeah, those Gold Coast Seagulls were a pretty feared bunch in the early 90's....

 

[Silent Knight]

Yeah, those Gold Coast Seagulls were a pretty feared bunch in the early 90's....

Oh they were...they were...

Be afraid...be very afraid.

 

[Hutty1986]

Oh they were...they were...

Be afraid...be very afraid.

:lol::lol:

 

[THE CHAMP]

You're fortunate Pervy you don't have to live amongst them. So much delusion I'd laugh if it wasn't so sad.

Here's an idea. Move to Newcastle. Oh hang on thats right it's a hole! Anyway mate at least get out of QLD you are not welcome!

 

[adamkungl]

Like I've already told all of you nsw geniused twits. Buy the DVD when Lockyer retires then you will know.
Lockyer performed at ALL LEVELS!! Joey simply didn't that's a f**ken fact. Lockyer has crushed you wankers at club and state level sooooo many times your dislike for him is clouding your feeble judgement.

Haha...but Lockyer had to wait for Joey to retire before he started crushing anything at state level...

 

[gorilla with a shotgun]

brad fitler

 

[THE CHAMP]

Haha...but Lockyer had to wait for Joey to retire before he started crushing anything at state level...

This comment proves beyond any doubt that you are not mentally able to contribute to this discussion. Please try to have more of a think before posting. Thank you.

 

[Silent Knight]

Give it a rest chump. Everyone else has.

 

[Billythekid]

Haha...but Lockyer had to wait for Joey to retire before he started crushing anything at state level...

Here's some stats for chump to chew on. Before Johns retired Lockyer had a losing record at SOO level. Since Johns retired they have won 6 straight.

Also QLD haven't lost a series since Thurston has been on the team (so 5 of their 6 wins).

People like to talk about this era of QLD cominance like it's Lockyers era despite the fact he had already been around for so long.

These 6 straight wins have a lot more to do with johns retiring and the addition of Smith, Slater, Thurston, Inglis etc.

 

[POPEYE]

Depends on how you determine the greatness of a player As an example I consider Mick Cronin to be my favourite player of all time.

So it stands to reason if I were to choose between Lockyer and Johns there would have to be a few boxes ticked.

How much time did he spend on the field compared to the time he was expected to play?

How often did he perform below his best or let his team down?

How much respect his team mates had for him and did he inspire them?

Did he ever bring the game or himself into disrepute and how is he remembered?

After that I would consider how talented he was while on the field and how big a contribution he made.

Based on the fact that I like a team to be stable and not disrupted I would choose Lockyer.

 

[Apey]

lol the champ must have got turned down for a root by Joey or something

 

[besthalfbackPEARCE]

Johns of course

 

[typicalfan]

To be fair Johns probably has the best clutch play of all time in the dying stages of the 1997 Grand Final v Manly. However Lockyer pulls it out of the fire frequently.

Johns had a more overall influence over a side than Lockyer does. It really is a flip of the coin. Lockyer wins for longevity but Johns really ended his career on the back of many injuries which cannot be helped.

I would pick Johns if I could have just one, I feel he is like having a 7 and a 6 in one. Sometimes he played even at origin level with ordinary halves partners and excelled like Anasta.

If I had Johns in the team i would want Lockyer the fullback rather than the 6 in the same team.


Lockyer had the 2003 Ashes, that was him at his most sublime, Johns had his 1995 WC performance without a host of SL talent.

And those occasions where Joey wore the 9 and Toovey wore the 7, Johns would pack in the scrum, however Toovey would play dummy half.

 

[typicalfan]

Also I saw some people comparing Thurston and adding him to the debate. Thurston is the closest thing to Johns on the field that we have in the competition. His competitiveness and his overall influence on a football game is where the similarities really are.

You could argue that Johns was still a bit of a better big game player than Thurston, and his kicking game and defense are much better. Thurston has a better running game though. But a lot of the mannerisms are the same, Thurston can lose his cool like Johns did, arguably Matt Scott taking some of the responsibility has taken Thurston to a new level and allowed him to free his game up.

Thurston in reality needs another crack at a title I think. Johns, like Lockyer had never been on the wrong end of a GF scoreline, I think Thurston would need something like that to truly be rated up with those two.

 

[Mad Dogg]

Johns obviously had more pure talent. At his best he was the best I've seen, and to be honest I find it hard to fathom somebody being better.

But typically, Johns was at his best when his team was dominating. He'd take what would already be a 10-20 point win with any half decent halfback and turn it into a 50 point win. There were occasions when he'd turn it on in close games or even occasionally when his team was being otherwise out-performed, but not as often.

Whereas with Lockyer, when his team is dominating he's always had the tendency to take a back-seat and let the other playmakers in the team control things. It's when the teams are evenly matched or his team is struggling that he has stepped up and been the difference so many times over the years. The 2002 preliminary final against the Roosters is the best performance in a losing team I have ever seen. Roosters were utterly dominating every other position on the field, but Lockyer single-handedly kept the Broncos in it and almost stole the win.

 

[eozsmiles]

Lewis was a great rep player but never did anything in the hardest club comp in the world. Lockyer and Johns both have him covered overall.
I voted for Johns because he wasa better player. He did things on the field others dream about. He once scored 4 tries in the same match against Canberra from the exact same play. Everyone in the stadium knew what he was going to do but the Raiders couldn't stop him. Had he gone to the Broncos all those years ago they would've won 5 comps in a row with their roster. Locky has played with stars for nearly his whole career while Johns had a few but carried some reggies. Throw Johns into the Broncos squad and they wouldn't have bothered playing the comp, just give them the trophy.



Locky is great but Johns was nearly perfect.

 

[Mr Fourex]

Lewis was a great rep player but never did anything in the hardest club comp in the world. Lockyer and Johns both have him covered overall.

Put down your crack pipe and step away from the keyboard.......:crazy:

 

[Loudstrat]

Johns could hit both wingers on the chest from a pass from halfway.

Johns had the best kicking game of all time.

Johns broke the all time points scoring record.

Johns produced arguably the biggest clutch play of all time in the 97 GF.

Johns played in a club that was always almost broke.

Heather played in a massively rich club with wealth all around him. He couldnt take the pressure of being a goal kicker. He could run faster, and played for longer.

Johns wins in a canter.

Heather is the best Queenslander since Beetson though.