Andrew Johns vs Darren Lockyer

[THE CHAMP]

lol the champ must have got turned down for a root by Joey or something

Yeah but ya mum didn't. She sure has some stamina.

 

[POPEYE]

Johns obviously had more pure talent. At his best he was the best I've seen, and to be honest I find it hard to fathom somebody being better.

But typically, Johns was at his best when his team was dominating. He'd take what would already be a 10-20 point win with any half decent halfback and turn it into a 50 point win. There were occasions when he'd turn it on in close games or even occasionally when his team was being otherwise out-performed, but not as often.

Whereas with Lockyer, when his team is dominating he's always had the tendency to take a back-seat and let the other playmakers in the team control things. It's when the teams are evenly matched or his team is struggling that he has stepped up and been the difference so many times over the years. The 2002 preliminary final against the Roosters is the best performance in a losing team I have ever seen. Roosters were utterly dominating every other position on the field, but Lockyer single-handedly kept the Broncos in it and almost stole the win.

Best post so far. Lewis was the best ever for the same reason. He was content to play normally until his team started flagging.

 

[THE CHAMP]

Johns obviously had more pure talent. At his best he was the best I've seen, and to be honest I find it hard to fathom somebody being better.

But typically, Johns was at his best when his team was dominating. He'd take what would already be a 10-20 point win with any half decent halfback and turn it into a 50 point win. There were occasions when he'd turn it on in close games or even occasionally when his team was being otherwise out-performed, but not as often.

Whereas with Lockyer, when his team is dominating he's always had the tendency to take a back-seat and let the other playmakers in the team control things. It's when the teams are evenly matched or his team is struggling that he has stepped up and been the difference so many times over the years. The 2002 preliminary final against the Roosters is the best performance in a losing team I have ever seen. Roosters were utterly dominating every other position on the field, but Lockyer single-handedly kept the Broncos in it and almost stole the win.

Easy to dominate a match in which your opponent receives their first penalty with about a minute to go in the game. They were also offside the entire season.

 

[northwest9]

Andrew Johns + Darren Lockyer =/= The Dugan

just ask raiders fans and fox sports commentators

 

[babyg]

Question: would it have been easier to dominate in the salary cap era we have now where most teams are equally matched.

 

[Hutty1986]

Easy to dominate a match in which your opponent receives their first penalty with about a minute to go in the game. They were also offside the entire season.

:lol:

 

[leichhardt]

Johns. Best I've seen by a mile.

Looking forward to the comparison of Johns v Marshall in 5 years

 

[analyst]

To be honest johns was a king on the field but thats all he had going for him, he had that raw talent but wasnt really diciplined, he was like the kid who always screwed around but somehow still passed the test and he did bring a bad name to the nrl a few times despite always performing on the field. If you just talk about playing ability then maybe johns over Lockyer.

However there is so much more to being a great player.

leadership qualities = Lockyer
cool head under pressure = Lockyer
influence on the game = Lockyer/Johns
influence on the younger players = Lockyer
career acheivements = Lockyer
ambassador to the game = Lockyer
longevity = Lockyer
discipline = Lockyer

Plus if you can break most records while your at it then thats just a bonus and Lockyer has john's number in that category also, of course these qualities come later in your career however I dont think johns had the maturity to ever beat lockyer, folks are already talking about lockyer immortality before he has even left the arena, johns may be a better raw talent but Lockyer is a benchmark of what every player in any sport should strive to become.

 

[Loudstrat]

To be honest johns was a king on the field but thats all he had going for him, he had that raw talent but wasnt really diciplined, he was like the kid who always screwed around but somehow still passed the test and he did bring a bad name to the nrl a few times despite always performing on the field. If you just talk about playing ability then maybe johns over Lockyer.

However there is so much more to being a great player.

leadership qualities = Lockyer
cool head under pressure = Lockyer
influence on the game = Lockyer/Johns
influence on the younger players = Lockyer
career acheivements = Lockyer
ambassador to the game = Lockyer
longevity = Lockyer
discipline = Lockyer

Plus if you can break most records while your at it then thats just a bonus and Lockyer has john's number in that category also, of course these qualities come later in your career however I dont think johns had the maturity to ever beat lockyer, folks are already talking about lockyer immortality before he has even left the arena, johns may be a better raw talent but Lockyer is a benchmark of what every player in any sport should strive to become.

Cool head under pressure? Lockyer has NEVER done anything as cool as Joey did with 6 seconds to go in 1997 to win his clubs first premiership.

Career achievements - Heathers are only to do with staying fit, and if you defensively play in a diner suit for a decade you wont finish your career injured.

If Heather didnt decide that kicking goals was too much work for him, he might have broken Joey's point scoring mark - especially at the best player-resourced club in the comp. If he did, you might have a point. That said, Heather never got near the skill level with ball in hand that Johns did. Joey never needed a 5/8. Heather definitely needed a first reciever.

Joey kicked more goals than Hazem el Masri.

As for discipline - tackling bar staff and pinching grog is not what you mean is it champ.

 

[analyst]

Pressure? Lockyer is renowned for pulling one out of the bag when under pressure, he has done it at origin and test level and we have seen it time and time again I dont even need to go into specifics, as for Joey and the 1997 final- its actually subjective and a matter of opinion as to whether Lockyer has done anything as "cool"

discipline? even if you take the allegations of tackling bar staff as true then Lockyer still has an immaculate record off field considering he is one of the highest profile players plus anyone in football will know that the media will pull a player up for tying his shoelaces the wrong way, we dont even need to go into Joeys off field dramas because Lockyer's a saint off field compared to Joey.

Now onto field discipline...... yes joey was passionate esspecially when his team was down but for god sake he could carry one like a damn baby when calls didnt go his way, swearing and blowing up etc...now imagine your a first grader making his debut and you see your captain carrying on like a goose under pressure when the reff makes his call.

 

[RHCP]

Pressure? Lockyer is renowned for pulling one out of the bag when under pressure, he has done it at origin and test level and we have seen it time and time again I dont even need to go into specifics, as for Joey and the 1997 final- its actually subjective and a matter of opinion as to whether Lockyer has done anything as "cool"

discipline? even if you take the allegations of tackling bar staff as true then Lockyer still has an immaculate record off field considering he is one of the highest profile players plus anyone in football will know that the media will pull a player up for tying his shoelaces the wrong way, we dont even need to go into Joeys off field dramas because Lockyer's a saint off field compared to Joey.

Now onto field discipline...... yes joey was passionate esspecially when his team was down but for god sake he could carry one like a damn baby when calls didnt go his way, swearing and blowing up etc...now imagine your a first grader making his debut and you see your captain carrying on like a goose under pressure when the reff makes his call.

Um, you do need to go into specifics. For all of Lockyer's plays I don't think any trump the 97 grand final.

You don't rate JT then either? Passion is a good commodity to have, I'd rather have my captain pissed off that something has gone wrong rather than be apathetic towards it. Blowing up is a side effect of actually caring about the result.

 

[ANTiLAG]

even if you take the allegations of tackling bar staff as true then Lockyer still has an immaculate record

Clearly a false allegation as part of a smear campaign. Everyone knows Locky cannot tackle.

 

[Red Bear]

Who cares about their off field shennanigans when it comes to deciding who is the better footballer?

 

[RHCP]

Wow so what, he threw a pass, against tired defense. Look at the game against Parra in 2008, Gold Coast in 07 and 08 they were way better last minute plays then anything Joey or anyone ever came up with.

Wow so what, he threw a pass/kicked a ball/made a run against tired defence.

At least Lockyer isn't a racist druggo bogan.

:lol:

Since when was being a polite bloke relevant to discussions about being a good footy player?

 

[Big Pete]

Clearly a false allegation as part of a smear campaign. Everyone knows Locky cannot tackle.

:lol: I think that was Bennett's line.

 

[pennywisealfie]

Wow so what, he threw a pass/kicked a ball/made a run against tired defence.


:lol:

Since when was being a polite bloke relevant to discussions about being a good footy player?

Just replying to loudstrats comments buddy.

 

[RABK]

Lewis vs Johns could be argued

Stuart vs Langer could be argued

Fittler vs Lockyer could be argued

But if in your heart of hearts you can't come to the conclusion that Lockyer had the better career but Johns was the better player than you're an idiot. It's not debatable, there's no opinion in it - it's fact. Johns was the complete player, Lockyer had the complete career.

 

[Mr Fourex]

Lewis vs Johns could be argued

Stuart vs Langer could be argued

Fittler vs Lockyer could be argued

But if in your heart of hearts you can't come to the conclusion that Lockyer had the better career but Johns was the better player than you're an idiot. It's not debatable, there's no opinion in it - it's fact. Johns was the complete player, Lockyer had the complete career.

Fair enough ........

btw

Langer > Stuart

Lockyer > Fittler

Lewis >Johns

........by heaps.

 

[fourplay]

Has Darren Lockyer ever been considered the best player in the game by other players in the RLW players poll?

 

[fourplay]

Nvm I went looking

Who is the best player in the game? 2006
Joey(49%) , Lockyer(17%), Thurston (8%), Other(26%)

Who is the best player in the game? 2007
Johnathan Thurston 52

Who is the best player in the game? 2008
Greg Inglis (22)

Who is the best player in the game? 2009
Thurston (50), Inglis (20), Slater (13), Others (17)

Who is the best player in the game? 2010
Billy Slater 27
Cam Smith 19
J. Thurston 19

Who is the best player in the game? 2011
Thurston 32
Slater 29
Smith 19