Bret Stewart >Josh Dugan & Hayne

[typicalfan]

I would also pick Lockyer unless he was playing at 5/8 then I would take Slater.

Hayne would be more of a chance on the wing than fullback.

 

[Raiders_Premiers]

The fact of the matter is that if Hayne played for Raiders they would be jizzing over him so bad that we'd never hear the end of it.

I like how you make things up. Are you and Timmah related?

 

[Poupou Escobar]

I never mentioned Hayne in that sentence

You asked for it.

Missed Tackles/Tackles
2010
Slater: 46/122 (27%)
Hayne: 38/109 (26%)

2009
Slater: 50/108 (32%)
Hayne: 41/208 (16%)

2008:
Slater: 31/125 (20%)
Hayne: 38/181 (17%)

Errors
2010
Slater: 37
Hayne: 36

2009
Slater: 43
Hayne: 34

2008:
Slater: 38
Hayne: 20

Metres per Kick Return
2010
Slater: 10.0
Hayne: 11.8

2009
Slater: 9.8
Hayne: 12.8

2008:
Slater: 12.3
Hayne: 12.0

Try Assists
2010
Slater: 12
Hayne: 14

2009
Slater: 19
Hayne: 15

2008:
Slater: 14
Hayne: 3

Linebreak Assists
2010
Slater: 18
Hayne: 17

2009
Slater: 19
Hayne: 7

2008:
Slater: 14
Hayne: 4

Linebreaks
2010
Slater: 13
Hayne: 17

2009
Slater: 22
Hayne: 32

2008:
Slater: 23
Hayne: 10

Slater hasn't been better than Hayne since 2008.

 

[typicalfan]

Interesting that Slater has many more LBA and TA than Hayne. I would have thought it would have been the other way around considering Hayne being the main man at Parramatta.

 

[Wrong_Number]

You asked for it.

Missed Tackles/Tackles
2010
Slater: 46/122 (27%)
Hayne: 38/109 (26%)

2009
Slater: 50/108 (32%)
Hayne: 41/208 (16%)

2008:
Slater: 31/125 (20%)
Hayne: 38/181 (17%)

Errors
2010
Slater: 37
Hayne: 36

2009
Slater: 43
Hayne: 34

2008:
Slater: 38
Hayne: 20

Metres per Kick Return
2010
Slater: 10.0
Hayne: 11.8

2009
Slater: 9.8
Hayne: 12.8

2008:
Slater: 12.3
Hayne: 12.0

Try Assists
2010
Slater: 12
Hayne: 14

2009
Slater: 19
Hayne: 15

2008:
Slater: 14
Hayne: 3

Linebreak Assists
2010
Slater: 18
Hayne: 17

2009
Slater: 19
Hayne: 7

2008:
Slater: 14
Hayne: 4

Linebreaks
2010
Slater: 13
Hayne: 17

2009
Slater: 22
Hayne: 32

2008:
Slater: 23
Hayne: 10

Slater hasn't been better than Hayne since 2008.

You missed the most important, who's the better fullback?

Slater: 100
Hayne: 75

 

[typicalfan]

Also what those kick return metres don't show you is where the ball is picked up from, if a ball is kicked over your head and you have to go back to retrieve it you will be further away from the defence and easier to make your 10m kick return whereas receiving it on the full means you are already much closer to the defence and although the kick return is shorter, the kick return is still more fruitful to your team.

 

[chefman21]

If you had a choice of playing any fullback from the past decade in tomorrow's decider, Lockyer would be my choice easily.
Then it'll be a toss up between Minichiello and Slater.
To even mention Hayne in Lockyer's class is an insult and this is coming from NSW supporter.

Yep. Lockyer at fullback was like poetry in motion. When ever he played against us and he had the ball he put genuine fear into me. Even more so than when he has been at five-eighth. And Mini... Well, I think those injuries robbed us of some very special years... Mind you, he is close to what he was then now. Clive Churchill favourite for me...

 

[Poupou Escobar]

Hayne, once in a generation player, give me a f**king break. Come back when he's performed at his peak for a few more than a handful of weeks a season.

You're missing the point Simmo.

Hayne at his peak is better than any player playing today. Even when he has a 'quiet' game he's as good as everybody else.

To even mention Hayne in Lockyer's class is an insult and this is coming from NSW supporter.

Coming from a NSW supporter or from a Hayne hater? Plenty of people are both.

Lockyer's well past it. Just because he's had a great career doesn't make him a star now. He's lost his speed and therefore he's lost what made him truly special. He's just lucky he can still kick and pass and talk on the field because his defence was never even average.

Interesting that Slater has many more LBA and TA than Hayne. I would have thought it would have been the other way around considering Hayne being the main man at Parramatta.

Hayne wasn't the main man at Parra until late last year. Ideally he'd be running off a dominant playmaker because unfortunately he can't run onto his own passes

You missed the most important, who's the better fullback?

Slater: 100
Hayne: 75

Well see mate, unlike the statistics, the argument of who's the better fullback is entirely subjective, and open to jealousy, resentment, and Johnny-come-lately syndrome.

Hayne could have been the worst player in the comp last year. It doesn't matter - he's the best right now.

It's why a lot of people are pissed at the Roosters playing in the grand final when they were wooden spooners last year. Some think it's unfair to go from worst to best without 'paying your dues' like the Dragons have done.

In the same way people are pissed at Jarryd Hayne for coming from nowhere to dominate the game like he did last year. It was the same with SBW when he first came up.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

Also what those kick return metres don't show you is where the ball is picked up from, if a ball is kicked over your head and you have to go back to retrieve it you will be further away from the defence and easier to make your 10m kick return whereas receiving it on the full means you are already much closer to the defence and although the kick return is shorter, the kick return is still more fruitful to your team.

Because the defence stand and wait for you to run back for the ball do they? :roll:

For every step a fullback takes running back for the ball, the defence are taking the same steps on their chase downfield.

Hayne is not just the last line of defence, he is the first line of attack. For the past two years he has consistently made long breaks from his own in-goal, despite the opposition coming at him in numbers. Slater doesn't have the tackle-breaking ability to have this impact.

If anything, opposition kick-chasers approach Hayne slowly, focusing on keeping their line straight rather than rushing at him one-on-one.

 

[Redback71]

you have to take the rest of the team into consideration as well. Having Cronk and smith it the team helps slater out alot and makes him an even better player. Imagine what Hayne would accomplish with those two players in his team.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

you have to take the rest of the team into consideration as well. Having Cronk and smith it the team helps slater out alot and makes him an even better player. Imagine what Hayne would accomplish with those two players in his team.

Nah Hayne's sh*t. He's also slow.

He was beaten over 100m by a couple of union players. If Slater and Lockyer had've run they would have beaten him too.

 

[simmo1]

You're missing the point Simmo.

Hayne at his peak is better than any player playing today.Even when he has a 'quiet' game he's as good as everybody else.

I'm not missing anything.

A once in a generation player is a player who stands out above every other player of the decade. Johns was one. Lewis was one. Hayne isn't even close.

He's not even the best player in the game. If he could maintain that end of 2009 form into 2010, then he very well could lay claim to that title. If he maitained that form for another 3+ years then he could well be called a 'once in a generation player'.

I await your next barrage of numbers trying to prove otherwise. I'll just watch the game to form my opinion.

 

[typicalfan]

Lockyer's well past it. Just because he's had a great career doesn't make him a star now. He's lost his speed and therefore he's lost what made him truly special. He's just lucky he can still kick and pass and talk on the field because his defence was never even average.









Hayne could have been the worst player in the comp last year. It doesn't matter - he's the best right now.

It's why a lot of people are pissed at the Roosters playing in the grand final when they were wooden spooners last year. Some think it's unfair to go from worst to best without 'paying your dues' like the Dragons have done.

In the same way people are pissed at Jarryd Hayne for coming from nowhere to dominate the game like he did last year. It was the same with SBW when he first came up.

Lockyer was in the top 3 players in origin this year along with Slater and Shillington and still wins his team the close matches. Didn't see the Broncos bow out insipidly on the back of his absence?

Jarryd isn't the best right now, he has no current award or 2010 achievement that makes it the case. It is only in your opinion which is very lonesome apart from some Eels fans. Who is a lot of people? lol I think you are clutching at straws.

You read too much into the media and what people say, and you are making some awful comparisons. The Roosters? SBW? Carney? None of these things have anything to do with Hayne's ability, you are the one bringing them up, no one else.

And as for the kick returns it doesn't really work that way, players only on occasion sprint down the field otherwise any fullback can make them pay. The philosophy of coming down in a line to prevent a line break is something that has been around for a lot longer than Hayne.

 

[typicalfan]

Nah Hayne's sh*t. He's also slow.

He was beaten over 100m by a couple of union players. If Slater and Lockyer had've run they would have beaten him too.

Yeah Shane Whereat was faster than all of them :roll:

 

[typicalfan]

you have to take the rest of the team into consideration as well. Having Cronk and smith it the team helps slater out alot and makes him an even better player. Imagine what Hayne would accomplish with those two players in his team.

You do but you also ask yourself how much does Billy Slater play in making those players better and their jobs easier. Seeing as he does call a lot of the plays down there I would say a great deal.

 

[Wrong_Number]

Nah Hayne's sh*t. He's also slow.

He was beaten over 100m by a couple of union players. If Slater and Lockyer had've run they would have beaten him too.

What has that got to do with anything? :crazy:
You just bring up random things that are not even related to the discussion.
So what you are saying is that the two union boys are both better fullbacks than Hayne? Ok.. I get you now :sarcasm:

 

[Bring it home Knights]

In order at their best.

Dugan.
Stewart.
Hayne.

That simple.

Did you actually see Hayne play at the end of last year? I haven't seen a fullback have such an impact on games since Brett Mullins in the mid 90's and even then I'll say Hayne was more impressive. Damn you come up with some weird stuff!

 

[The 18th Man]

Stewart for as good as he was has been long removed from the game and thus has fallen down the pecking order. He starts mid grid and it's up to him to change our minds and the NSW selectors. If he looks to Minichiello for inspiration, he will do ok and be back to his try scoring best for the Sea Eagles. Until then though, it's all up hill.

 

[Wrong_Number]

Over the years, there are many players that will come up with flashes of brilliance over a few games but then goes missing the rest of the time.
Mundine springs to mind. He had all the talent in the world, but never had the consistency and mindset to reach the heights of a Daley or Fitler.

 

[Big Pete]

I sympathise with both fan bases here.

Firstly with the Eels fans who have to put up with all the tall poppy induced attacks on Hayne at any opportunity because the media dares to promote him and the game.

Secondly with the Raiders fans...Actually screw it if I was a Raiders fan I'd be licking my lips in anticipation over the next five years. After about 7-8 years of disappointment the Raiders are finally on a few winners and if the likes of Dugan, Croker, Vidot, Low, Waddell, Thompson, Fensom and Mataora fulfill their potential. Seriously if some of you guys found the Raiders fans annoying before...you're going to find them a THOUSAND times more annoying when these guys annihilate you in the future.

As for who's better.

I'd say Brett Stewart and Jarryd Hayne are on equal peggings as player with Hayne holding the advantage due to his age and well being.

Dugan has a way to go before he should be included in this discussion, ditto Coote (and really ditto on Hoffman).