Canberra Raiders for the spoon ?

[Iafeta]

Just on this topic that has managed to find its way into numerous threads. I love it, couldn't be more delighted. My club does really well when our backs are to the wall and no one expects anything out of us. Elliott, like him or not, also thrives on this attitude and is doing nothing really to defend against the people claiming we will get the spoon. He will have the 'seige' mentality in by round 2 against the Knights.

In my opinion, Canberra have done best with their backs NOT against the wall. The team that was nearly unbeatable had fabulous players, Mullins, Belcher, Meninga, Nadruku, Nagas, Wiki, Steve Walters, Todd, Pongia, Lomax, Lazarus, Clyde, Daley, Stuart - it was hardly backs against the walls stuff. For the record, I still tip Canberra for the spoon, which is not good given I grew up backing Daley and Stuart as heroes and thinking Meninga and co were gods, Canberra was the real deal, the green machine, we loved 'em over in NZ.

Personally, given that I hope I'm wrong. I see Souths improving this year a bit, so the other two teams that are in my eyes a chance at the spoon are Cronulla who just irk me for their ill discipline and lack of attacking depth, and the Warriors.

We may have a few injury prone players but that doesn't really bother me at this stage. I am pretty sure that our club would be the only one whereas the top 25 players would all have 1st grade experience. People can call us the pensioners club all they want but at the end of the day our average age in the top squad is 23 or something similar. If we have a dismal season then these players will no doubt gain a lot. If not and we do well then we are laying the platform for a premiership with so many young guys playing together and forming a squad for the future. What does Elliott have to lose, he will get sacked if we plod along in 8-10 position each year anyway?

I think the older players have come as Elliott has clutched at straws when he's realised just how many young players he is going to rely on. They need some older heads, but it seems to be a problem that players who've been in the ESL seem softer when they come back than when they went back. Generally it seems to take 3/4 a season for them to adapt, and with Smith and Adamson that doesn't leave a whole lot of time afterwards career wise.

I don't think Matt Elliott is the man for the job either anymore. Its in my opinion becoming a bit of a Daniel Anderson situation. Anderson/Elliott had formulas that seemingly worked fine for 2-3 years, all of a sudden they stopped working. I know Canberra made eighth last year, but fair dinkum, that style of play won't get you anywhere as the game gets quicker. Its like a golden oldies style play, 2 wide of the ruck MAX. Great for the first 70 metres, but where it counts, in the money zone, no creativity whatsoever.

Don't forget that Wiki was suspended for a large amount of 2003 & 2004. Davico had his fair share of injuries, McLinden was the little pig who couldn't jump the wall no matter how hard he tried and Drew isn't worth the bother explaining otherwise I would be here all day.

I think Ruben's influence off the paddock is where it'll count most. In New Zealand, he's practically a rugby league god for what he's done and who's he's done it to. If Ruben was still there with your Carney's and Weyman's, just his off field influence of man, I'm playing and learning off this legend - the same feeling Ruben got from Mel Meninga - would be invaluable.

I am not suggesting that we will win the comp. I am however very pleased that Elliott is starting with a better base than when he took over from Mal and is building for the future. I am thrilled he is backing the ability of our juniors, which makes you want to get out and support our local boys each week.

You need decent, experienced NRL halves to win a comp. I think for years 2007 onwards, the short term pain Canberra go through here will be beneficial. I think though it'd be foolish of the club to expect miracles straight up, or to have too high hopes. They've got to be patient with this lot coming through if they're as good as most say, apart from a few special players like your Sonny-Bill's, your Billy Slaters, most young players need a season or two in the top grade before they show their true potential. You've got to expect inexperienced errors, lack of organisation, lack of know how when the tough gets going. The worst thing though the club as a whole can do is get its hopes up too high and therefore make wholesale changes if things don't go too well.

Also, whoever wrote Brad Drew as a loss didn't see many Canberra games, although judging by a lot of assessments in this thread most people haven't watched too much of the Raiders anyway. Drew was Pathetic in his time here and that is being kind.

Agree. 2001 Brad Drew was unbelievable. Since then he's been ordinary. A bit of a nuff nuff. Either 2001 he overachieved, or since then he's been a massive underachiever. I suspect Lincoln Withers will do a much better job.

 

[Balmain_Boy]

It all comes down to the forwards for the Raiders. Without bringing the Tigers up, I'd be very worried if I were a Raiders fan. They'll either go ok or terrible. I'm picking they'll finish anywhere from 8th - 15th.

Depends on whether O'hara steps up to lead the forward pack for me.

 

[SOULS 04]

O'hara really does need to step up.... he had an ordibary 2004 and a great 2003... what 2005 brings from him is anybodies guess.

i dont think in any way will the raiders get the spoon... but i can see us finishing anywhere from 5th to 13th

 

[innsaneink]

Im not even going to bother commenting in this thread, like someone just told me, a lot of you arent commenting here because of the team, you comment here because of your dislike for the raiders supporters, and half the stuff posted by some people (there are some very constructive things said in here by other clubs supporters) is just plain crap, some of you should take a look at your own clubs, look at newcastle for instance, once johns retires they wont have a hope in hell of winning a premiership again unless kurt gidley picks his game up, look at parramatta, sea eagles, roosters (who just lost one of the best players to ever play).

Its open season on the premiership and wooden spoon this year, its anyones ball game.

:lol: :lol: :lol:
PHwooaaarrrHawHawHaw

Oh boo hoo poor Victoria all the people are only posting and saying the Raiders will come last because we dont like you!!! :lol:

Straighten your skirt girl, heres a fwiend!

 

[woodgers]

In my opinion, Canberra have done best with their backs NOT against the wall. The team that was nearly unbeatable had fabulous players, Mullins, Belcher, Meninga, Nadruku, Nagas, Wiki, Steve Walters, Todd, Pongia, Lomax, Lazarus, Clyde, Daley, Stuart - it was hardly backs against the walls stuff. For the record, I still tip Canberra for the spoon, which is not good given I grew up backing Daley and Stuart as heroes and thinking Meninga and co were gods, Canberra was the real deal, the green machine, we loved 'em over in NZ.

But that point is apples and oranges. I am talking the last couple of years. When Sportodds or 'experts' tip us to win then we often fail. It is when these players that are on our current roster are given no chance that we do well. On your second point about the Raiders side of the early 90's, I barely come across someone who didn't admire them. What I do find amusing, even more so on these forums is that every second person calls the Raiders boring. We were the pioneers of the inventive game and now that our team does not throw the ball around on the 2nd tackle we are abused from pillar to post.

I think the older players have come as Elliott has clutched at straws when he's realised just how many young players he is going to rely on. They need some older heads, but it seems to be a problem that players who've been in the ESL seem softer when they come back than when they went back. Generally it seems to take 3/4 a season for them to adapt, and with Smith and Adamson that doesn't leave a whole lot of time afterwards career wise.

Time will tell. There have been players like Hanley, Morley, Gary Connolly, Lee Jackson, Dennis Betts amongst others who have come this way sucessfully. A big gamble but much like your Wiki point, these 2 will have just as much influence at training as on the weekend.

I don't think Matt Elliott is the man for the job either anymore. Its in my opinion becoming a bit of a Daniel Anderson situation. Anderson/Elliott had formulas that seemingly worked fine for 2-3 years, all of a sudden they stopped working. I know Canberra made eighth last year, but fair dinkum, that style of play won't get you anywhere as the game gets quicker. Its like a golden oldies style play, 2 wide of the ruck MAX. Great for the first 70 metres, but where it counts, in the money zone, no creativity whatsoever.

Correct. This is why I don't give two hoots about Drew or McLinden. Drew was absolute tripe, Mclinden had pace and may have used it twice a game but besides that = nothing. No organisation, no skills to bring others into play. Smith was bought to give guidence to Carney and Campese, he may also turn it up on the pitch BUT at the very least he can bring the outside backs into play, something we lacked in the past few years. Withers may be used at half as well. Whilst not ideal, he can't be worse than Drew. Croker will slot in the pack where he is at his best.

I think Ruben's influence off the paddock is where it'll count most. In New Zealand, he's practically a rugby league god for what he's done and who's he's done it to. If Ruben was still there with your Carney's and Weyman's, just his off field influence of man, I'm playing and learning off this legend - the same feeling Ruben got from Mel Meninga - would be invaluable.

Bang on. We will never replace him. I can only hope that the other players try to step up in his absence and endeavour to become leaders themselves.

You need decent, experienced NRL halves to win a comp. I think for years 2007 onwards, the short term pain Canberra go through here will be beneficial. I think though it'd be foolish of the club to expect miracles straight up, or to have too high hopes. They've got to be patient with this lot coming through if they're as good as most say, apart from a few special players like your Sonny-Bill's, your Billy Slaters, most young players need a season or two in the top grade before they show their true potential. You've got to expect inexperienced errors, lack of organisation, lack of know how when the tough gets going. The worst thing though the club as a whole can do is get its hopes up too high and therefore make wholesale changes if things don't go too well.

Agree. If we finish around 8 with a team like this in 2005 then this thread won't exist for another 10 years.

 

[VictorTheViking]

Im not even going to bother commenting in this thread, like someone just told me, a lot of you arent commenting here because of the team, you comment here because of your dislike for the raiders supporters, and half the stuff posted by some people (there are some very constructive things said in here by other clubs supporters) is just plain crap, some of you should take a look at your own clubs, look at newcastle for instance, once johns retires they wont have a hope in hell of winning a premiership again unless kurt gidley picks his game up, look at parramatta, sea eagles, roosters (who just lost one of the best players to ever play).

Its open season on the premiership and wooden spoon this year, its anyones ball game.

:lol: :lol: :lol:
PHwooaaarrrHawHawHaw

Oh boo hoo poor Victoria all the people are only posting and saying the Raiders will come last because we dont like you!!! :lol:

Straighten your skirt girl, heres a fwiend!

Im guessing all bar 5 of those 4420 posts are not trolling or being a moron??

 

[daslacker]

Well there seems alot here sure the raiders will get the spoon this year.I can't see why everyones so confident of that.
I think alot will come down to matty elliot to determine their position on the ladder.I think he must start todd carney at half straight away.I know the raiders fans have big raps on him,I agree with them.Every time he's played he's impressed me.One instance against the tigers he breezed very easily past sattler and elford,made it look so easy.If the raiders are really going to make a move this year,they'll need to give carney more depth in the backline to put on the plays.
Their forward pack even though there are alot of unknown's,can still hold it's own IMO.The likes of troy thompson,michael weyman,..miller,Michael Hodgson are all under-rated here IMO.Though i still think they need time to get adjusted to the speed of 1st grade.
They still have some very good players that i haven't mentioned,no doubt o'hara will really have to step up this year.
I don't rate their dummy halves though,which i think will really hold them back(woolford and withers).I presume they'll play withers off the bench into the hooker role.Woolford is too old skool,and withers (even with his occasional big hits)is overrated IMO.Great front on but he'll miss his fair share.
If the raiders do get the spoon i think it'll come down to,not giving carney depth in the backline,inferior rakes and elliots game plans and selections


I don't see why the warriors are rated so highly,I don't think wiki and price are enough to save that sinking ship.If price gets injured and/or wiki gets suspended for long periods they will be close to the spoon.IMO brent webb is the worst fullback in the comp.They still have a good side on paper,but they did last year too.Really,god no's what this team will dish up this year.

Souths are another close to the spoon,but i don't think they'll get it.They need be more persistant with this years 9,7,6,1 combo.IMO walker would be first out.I'd have 9.Young 7.Williams 6.Byrne 1 Adam McDougall.IMO if souths really want to make a move this season they must play adam mcdougall at fullback.Just so explosive back there.

Manly each year you think they will get the spoon,yet they never do.Wouldn't suprise me if they got the spoon and it wouldn't suprise me if they didn't.Maybe their time has finally come.

Tigers need to become more creative in attack,have their forwards making metre's and improve their general kicking game.Otherwise i could be another long season for us tigers fans.I'm very happy with the players let go,and quietly happy with whats been recuited and retained.I've learnt to never be confident in this team,or have high expectations due to being burnt so many times in the past.Though i'm happy with their progression.

Sharks will never go anywhere with atittudes like phil bailey at the club.If they change their atittude they might change their position on the ladder,something I doubt.

So these are the teams IMO that will win the spoon,but i'm not ruling any team out of the 8 this year.IMO This year will be the closest comp we've ever seen.

 

[innsaneink]

Im not even going to bother commenting in this thread, like someone just told me, a lot of you arent commenting here because of the team, you comment here because of your dislike for the raiders supporters, and half the stuff posted by some people (there are some very constructive things said in here by other clubs supporters) is just plain crap, some of you should take a look at your own clubs, look at newcastle for instance, once johns retires they wont have a hope in hell of winning a premiership again unless kurt gidley picks his game up, look at parramatta, sea eagles, roosters (who just lost one of the best players to ever play).

Its open season on the premiership and wooden spoon this year, its anyones ball game.

:lol: :lol: :lol:
PHwooaaarrrHawHawHaw

Oh boo hoo poor Victoria all the people are only posting and saying the Raiders will come last because we dont like you!!! :lol:

Straighten your skirt girl, heres a fwiend!

Im guessing all bar 5 of those 4420 posts are not trolling or being a moron??

:lol: :lol:
Grow some balls you sensitive sally, who gives a rats if people like you or not.....if youre looking for a popularity contest your in the wrong place, you think the you raiders fans are so special .....that people post negatively about your team when really its a reflection on you guys, guess what victoria????? It happens to ALL teams.

 

[Tokyo_Raider]

Prediction: Roosters to finally get pipped for salary cap breaches and finish last.

 

[TIGERPies]

WIth Mark Latham stepping down have they run out of tissues in canberra victor?

 

[Iafeta]

In my opinion, Canberra have done best with their backs NOT against the wall. The team that was nearly unbeatable had fabulous players, Mullins, Belcher, Meninga, Nadruku, Nagas, Wiki, Steve Walters, Todd, Pongia, Lomax, Lazarus, Clyde, Daley, Stuart - it was hardly backs against the walls stuff. For the record, I still tip Canberra for the spoon, which is not good given I grew up backing Daley and Stuart as heroes and thinking Meninga and co were gods, Canberra was the real deal, the green machine, we loved 'em over in NZ.

But that point is apples and oranges. I am talking the last couple of years. When Sportodds or 'experts' tip us to win then we often fail. It is when these players that are on our current roster are given no chance that we do well. On your second point about the Raiders side of the early 90's, I barely come across someone who didn't admire them. What I do find amusing, even more so on these forums is that every second person calls the Raiders boring. We were the pioneers of the inventive game and now that our team does not throw the ball around on the 2nd tackle we are abused from pillar to post.

I think the older players have come as Elliott has clutched at straws when he's realised just how many young players he is going to rely on. They need some older heads, but it seems to be a problem that players who've been in the ESL seem softer when they come back than when they went back. Generally it seems to take 3/4 a season for them to adapt, and with Smith and Adamson that doesn't leave a whole lot of time afterwards career wise.

Time will tell. There have been players like Hanley, Morley, Gary Connolly, Lee Jackson, Dennis Betts amongst others who have come this way sucessfully. A big gamble but much like your Wiki point, these 2 will have just as much influence at training as on the weekend.

I don't think Matt Elliott is the man for the job either anymore. Its in my opinion becoming a bit of a Daniel Anderson situation. Anderson/Elliott had formulas that seemingly worked fine for 2-3 years, all of a sudden they stopped working. I know Canberra made eighth last year, but fair dinkum, that style of play won't get you anywhere as the game gets quicker. Its like a golden oldies style play, 2 wide of the ruck MAX. Great for the first 70 metres, but where it counts, in the money zone, no creativity whatsoever.

Correct. This is why I don't give two hoots about Drew or McLinden. Drew was absolute tripe, Mclinden had pace and may have used it twice a game but besides that = nothing. No organisation, no skills to bring others into play. Smith was bought to give guidence to Carney and Campese, he may also turn it up on the pitch BUT at the very least he can bring the outside backs into play, something we lacked in the past few years. Withers may be used at half as well. Whilst not ideal, he can't be worse than Drew. Croker will slot in the pack where he is at his best.

I think Ruben's influence off the paddock is where it'll count most. In New Zealand, he's practically a rugby league god for what he's done and who's he's done it to. If Ruben was still there with your Carney's and Weyman's, just his off field influence of man, I'm playing and learning off this legend - the same feeling Ruben got from Mel Meninga - would be invaluable.

Bang on. We will never replace him. I can only hope that the other players try to step up in his absence and endeavour to become leaders themselves.

You need decent, experienced NRL halves to win a comp. I think for years 2007 onwards, the short term pain Canberra go through here will be beneficial. I think though it'd be foolish of the club to expect miracles straight up, or to have too high hopes. They've got to be patient with this lot coming through if they're as good as most say, apart from a few special players like your Sonny-Bill's, your Billy Slaters, most young players need a season or two in the top grade before they show their true potential. You've got to expect inexperienced errors, lack of organisation, lack of know how when the tough gets going. The worst thing though the club as a whole can do is get its hopes up too high and therefore make wholesale changes if things don't go too well.

Agree. If we finish around 8 with a team like this in 2005 then this thread won't exist for another 10 years.

Dennis Betts was NOT a success. Neither was Andy Platt. Both failed at the Warriors. Look at it this way, a player like McLinden, and even god forbid Leuluai will probably carve the ESL up, they're strong in the first 4-5 teams but as soon as you slide down the table the hole's are bigger than Paris Hilton's.

I think Smith is going to good off the field, his influence will be good, but in no way will it have the same bearing as Ruben Wiki's influence in Canberra. I think you are quite right, Smith and Adamson's best attribute to the Raiders will be to guide and teach the youngsters. It won't all turn to gold straight away though, if you're patient, and these kids really do have this potential that is often talked about, then in 2-3 years in terms of the long term the move to bring Smith and Adamson in will be masterstrokes. I'm sure though they'd much rather have Ruben Wiki at the club.

As for historically, I wouldn't label the Raiders or the Broncos of that era boring. They were unbelievably awesome. But the Raiders under Elliott are a different story, he seems very defensively minded with little to no change in the danger zone which may stagnate young Todd Carney.

 

[VictorTheViking]

Im not even going to bother commenting in this thread, like someone just told me, a lot of you arent commenting here because of the team, you comment here because of your dislike for the raiders supporters, and half the stuff posted by some people (there are some very constructive things said in here by other clubs supporters) is just plain crap, some of you should take a look at your own clubs, look at newcastle for instance, once johns retires they wont have a hope in hell of winning a premiership again unless kurt gidley picks his game up, look at parramatta, sea eagles, roosters (who just lost one of the best players to ever play).

Its open season on the premiership and wooden spoon this year, its anyones ball game.

:lol: :lol: :lol:
PHwooaaarrrHawHawHaw

Oh boo hoo poor Victoria all the people are only posting and saying the Raiders will come last because we dont like you!!! :lol:

Straighten your skirt girl, heres a fwiend!

Im guessing all bar 5 of those 4420 posts are not trolling or being a moron??

:lol: :lol:
Grow some balls you sensitive sally, who gives a rats if people like you or not.....if youre looking for a popularity contest your in the wrong place, you think the you raiders fans are so special .....that people post negatively about your team when really its a reflection on you guys, guess what victoria????? It happens to ALL teams.

Go back, read through my posts, i never once said I was looking for a popularity contest flogstain......, nor did I say we were that special, what im merely trying to point out is that idiotic people (such as you, and or cogburn) hang shit on our club in our part of the forum because of us, not because of the club, jackass.

I dont care if you hang shit on the club, like you said, every club cops it, but if your going to do it, do it because of the club not because of its supporters...........

 

[simon says]

I dont care if you hang sh*t on the club, like you said, every club cops it, but if your going to do it, do it because of the club not because of its supporters...........[/quote]

I hate both equally and feel an inate need to comment on your club and its fans stupidity.

Especially when you blokes keep telling me how good you are.When it is obvious(to everyone but lime green landers) that you are not.

Cheers.

 

[VictorTheViking]

What sort of supporter would I be Simon if I didnt think my club was good?

 

[greeneyed]

:blahb: :sleeper:

 

[The Way I See It]

I'd give you !00/1 if they get the wooden spoon and you can have $1000 on it.
There is no way in the world they got that bad a team to be the spooners.
And Withers is a halfback remember where he played for the tigers and raiders,then he went to saints and played off the bench.

 

[aids]

lets pick on the storm, just to calm everything down



btw how many canberra fans are turning up to can'town for the trial next month?

 

[Dogs Of War]

I'll put $10 on it. Too Bad your not good for it.

 

[innsaneink]

Go back, read through my posts, i never once said I was looking for a popularity contest flogstain......, nor did I say we were that special, what im merely trying to point out is that idiotic people (such as you, and or cogburn) hang sh*t on our club in our part of the forum because of us, not because of the club, jackass.

Have you never stopped to wonder why???

I am with 69 on the trolls issue. In fact, I completely steer clear of the NRL forum because of that reason.

The NRL forum here has been a disgrace lately.... every time thread a Raiders supporter puts a view on it, it becomes a Tigers/Warriors/Dragons/Roosters hate fest on the Raiders supporters. I am sick of it.

I must admit I don't post a huge amount in the NRL forum myself, mainly because a few posters see the Raiders colours attached to my post and then decide to turn the argument on its head... for example I made a comment about Finch possibly not being retained at the end of this season by the Roosters and it was jumped on by all and sundry about being a 'bitter raiders fan'...

Im still posting here heaps but this other places are a way to talk some league with raiders fans without having clowns flood the place turing every convo into a sh*t fight as is the case any time a tiger fans see something remotely positive about canberra

Im not even going to bother commenting in this thread, like someone just told me, a lot of you arent commenting here because of the team, you comment here because of your dislike for the raiders supporters,

You precious petals, your sensitivity is a beacon to any league fan that loves a stir, that loves to give it the opposition fans, their bench n wingers at games, that gives it to others on net league forums. At least your brothers had the sensibility to have their little pity party in their appropriate forum, where the cries of "We are the victims" are somewhat muffled, you did it here.....you might as well stick a target on your forehead.

....and then when yous actually do talk about the team or footy, its always the same Carney this, Carney that, Carney, carney, :blahb: carney, carney, maybe maybe maybe Wiki was, Wiki wouldve, :blahb: wikis a god , was, was , was,our reserve grade is great, '89, '89, '89, '89 :blahb:

Keep up the great work.

 

[Raider_69]

where as tigers fans dribble shit about Benji Marshall...
no difference, so stop bitchin innsano