Carbs

[roopy]

I'll probably be lousy at explaining this, but here goes.

The only form of energy 'food' the individual cells of the body can take in is glucose - a very simple form of carbohydrate.
The body converts all food it gets energy out of to glucose, and the harder the food is to convert to glucose the better for weight loss.
Simple sugars such as sucrose (white sugar), fructose, glucose etc are all very close to glucose already and go straight into your bloodstream for use by your cells, but complex carbs such as those contained in whole grains, vegetables, some fruits etc are very hard to convert to glucose, so they become available to the cells of the body over a long period of time.
If you have a sudden rush of glucose into your bloodstream the cells of your body will continue to use the same amount, and the excess will be converted to fat, so what you want to do is to eat foods that will release glucose in a slow and steady way.
The rate at which a carb is converted to glucose is measured by the glycemic index. A high GI food such as sugar or honey is converted to glucose very quickly.
A low GI food such as green vegetables or whole grains is converted to glucose very slowly.

 

[Valderon]

could you please give us some examples of high GI and low GI carbs

High GI carbs -(GI > 70) = quick energy source, due to faster digestion

• EG: Parsnip , Rice Bubbles , Potato , Rice , Jelly Beans , Wholemeal Bread , Coco Pops , Coffee Biscuits , Cornflakes , Waffles , Bagel , Sports Drinks (Powerade, Lucozade, Gatorade, etc) , Pumpkin , Lollies (which tend to be similar to pure glucose).

Medium GI carbs (GI 55 - 70) = moderate energy source, medium digestion rate

• EG: White Bread , Weetbix , Crumpets , Gnocchi (Pasta) , Sucrose (table sugar) , Croissants , Cordial , Oats / Porridge , Pineapple , Couscous , Rockmelon , Beetroot , Raisins , Muesli Bars , Rye Bread , Sultanas , Honey , Figs , Ice Cream

Low GI carbs - (GI < 50) = slow energy source, due to slower digestion

• Multigrain Bread , Buckwheat , Peaches , Sweet Corn , Banana , Mango , Fruit Bread , Orange Juice , Boiled Potato , Baked Beans , Two-minute Noodles , Grapes , White Chocolate , Spaghetti , Oranges , Sustagen Sport , Apple , Plums , Pears , Yams , Soy Drink , Milo , Yoghurt , Cherries , Apricots , Lentils , Milk , etc.

All food groups (breads, cereals, pasta, vegetables, fruits, dairy, snacks, sports drinks, sugars, ETC) have different foods which sit in the High GI, Medium GI, and Low GI categories.

Both High GI and Low GI foods are beneficial in the diet.

 

[Valderon]

The body converts all food it gets energy out of to glucose, and the harder the food is to convert to glucose the better for weight loss.

I don't really agree with that. After all, the body is able to convert protein or lipids into glucose; though it's highly inefficient at it (as they're chemically different, thus require more metabolic processes for conversion); yet neither protein or lipids (which are harder to convert to glucose) are "better for weight loss".

The reality is, a humans muscles, brain and liver require carbohydrate (in the form of glucose) to function. Eating insufficient amounts of CHO will generally lead to fatigue; particularly in relation to sustaining aerobic activity. The general reality is, a low carbohydrate diet usually goes hand-in-hand with a low kilojoule diet; so while you will lose weight, you won't be-able to be active. Not to mention, CHO foods contain highly neccessary by-products in dietary fibre, antioxidants, and other nutrients required by the body for optimal function; and for the minimisation of health risks relative to particular cancers, and cardiovascular health.

 

[roopy]

High GI carbs -(GI > 70) = quick energy source, due to faster digestion

• EG: Parsnip , Rice Bubbles , Potato , Rice , Jelly Beans , Wholemeal Bread , Coco Pops , Coffee Biscuits , Cornflakes , Waffles , Bagel , Sports Drinks (Powerade, Lucozade, Gatorade, etc) , Pumpkin , Lollies (which tend to be similar to pure glucose).

Medium GI carbs (GI 55 - 70) = moderate energy source, medium digestion rate

• EG: White Bread , Weetbix , Crumpets , Gnocchi (Pasta) , Sucrose (table sugar) , Croissants , Cordial , Oats / Porridge , Pineapple , Couscous , Rockmelon , Beetroot , Raisins , Muesli Bars , Rye Bread , Sultanas , Honey , Figs , Ice Cream

Low GI carbs - (GI < 50) = slow energy source, due to slower digestion

• Multigrain Bread , Buckwheat , Peaches , Sweet Corn , Banana , Mango , Fruit Bread , Orange Juice , Boiled Potato , Baked Beans , Two-minute Noodles , Grapes , White Chocolate , Spaghetti , Oranges , Sustagen Sport , Apple , Plums , Pears , Yams , Soy Drink , Milo , Yoghurt , Cherries , Apricots , Lentils , Milk , etc.

All food groups (breads, cereals, pasta, vegetables, fruits, dairy, snacks, sports drinks, sugars, ETC) have different foods which sit in the High GI, Medium GI, and Low GI categories.

Both High GI and Low GI foods are beneficial in the diet.

That list is vey wrong - milo and white chocolate are not lower GI than wholemeal bread.

 

[Martli]

I like to think of diets in evolutionary terms. We evolved in a highly stable environment, and our diet was largely meat, fruits, vegetables, nuts, roots etc. Looking at traditional diets is no good in my opinion, even though people might have been "healthy" (ie skinny).

But the thing with diet is that it is a very individual thing, and too many people try to turn it in to a one size fits all thing. I know people who eat f**k loads of carbs (good and bad) and don't put on an ounce of weight, and I know people who would eat the same levels and have weight problems. Traditionally, we're told to eat a lot of carbs, moderate proteins and to keep fat low; the theory being that we burn a certain amount of calories and so to gain, lose or maintain weight we simply eat, less or more food to up calorie intake. Since fat is 9 calories per gram it is generally the main target for cutting down as it is easier to reduce your calorie intake by cutting out fat.

But there's heaps of research that suggests that a simple calorie-based approach is too simplistic, and that the storage of fat is a lot more complicated than a in-out equation, ie not all calories are made equal. A lot of diets suggest 55% carbohydrates, but I believe that for some people this is simply too much, others perhaps too little. Carbohydrates spike insulin (At what rate depends on GI and your sensitivity) which tells your body to store energy. It's during this period you start repairing muscles, restoring glucose supplies and storing fat to burn later. Surplus carbohydrates (ie, those not being converted into glucose for energy) are stored as fat, as it is easy to convert, protein is a lot harder to convert into fat. The moral of the story is that there are a range of factors that can influence these processes such as your genetic disposition, the amount and type of food your body is used to eating compared to what it is currently eating. A person used to a high calorie diet with completely shock their body with a rapid drop in their diet, and can actually make things worse in the long run, whereas someone who eats enough and then goes on a binge may not come out too bad so long as they don't make the binge a regular occurrence. Essentially, these processes are different in all of us and we need to find the levels that best suit our lifestyle. Just because one make-up works for someone doesn't mean it will work for you. I've tried a lot of different ratios and found that low carb left me feeling like sh*t, while high carb makes me fat. Pretty much, I just try to target my carb intake so that it's sort of in in the middle ground: not too low, but not through the roof. I love carbs, and can devour 400gm + a day if left to my own devices, but I generally avoid carbs at night for this reason and seem to handle it ok. But that doesn't mean it will work for you.

As for meal timing; eat what suits you best. Most of the research suggests that it doesn't matter how many meals you eat a day or when they're timed, just that you're eating the right amount of calories with the right macro-nutrient mix. Just make sure you have carbs before and after a workout, and protein at least after but also before if possible. Thus carbs at night isn't bad as such, so long as your not going over your carb limit.

 

[roopy]

I don't really agree with that. After all, the body is able to convert protein or lipids into glucose; though it's highly inefficient at it (as they're chemically different, thus require more metabolic processes for conversion); yet neither protein or lipids (which are harder to convert to glucose) are "better for weight loss".

The reality is, a humans muscles, brain and liver require carbohydrate (in the form of glucose) to function. Eating insufficient amounts of CHO will generally lead to fatigue; particularly in relation to sustaining aerobic activity. The general reality is, a low carbohydrate diet usually goes hand-in-hand with a low kilojoule diet; so while you will lose weight, you won't be-able to be active. Not to mention, CHO foods contain highly neccessary by-products in dietary fibre, antioxidants, and other nutrients required by the body for optimal function; and for the minimisation of health risks relative to particular cancers, and cardiovascular health.

I wasn't trying to explain all nutrition principals in 100 words or less - I was trying to explain GI in 100 words or less.

 

[Martli]

Also: Legumes (Lentils, beans etc.) for Low GI carbs, they a quite low, much lower than bread etc.

 

[Valderon]

That list is vey wrong - milo and white chocolate are not lower GI than wholemeal bread.

First and foremost; that is clearly YOUR opinion.

Secondly, that list was developed by, and published by a leading Australian dietician only a few years ago; on the basis of actual analysis of those foods listed. That is, legitimate measures through actual scientific processes.

I'm quite confident a person who specialises in that particular field would have a far greater knowledge in that area, than you or I. That is why we tend to trust the insight of these professions.

Based on their biochemical analysis of those foods you've attempted to critique in the list:-

Wholemeal Bread:-

• Glycemic Index: 77
• CHO: 12 grams
• Glycemic Load: 9

White Chocolate:-

• Glycemic Index: 44
• CHO: 29 grams
• Glycemic Load: 13

Milo in Milk:-

• Glycemic Index: 33
• CHO: 26 grams
• Glycemic Load: 9

Very, VERY clear differences in their Glycemix Index numbers; in addition to clear categorical organisation (High >70, Medium 55-70, Low <55)

Sources of Information, of the all GI/CHO/GL listings:-

Cardwell, G. (2006). Gold Medal Nutrition (4th ed.). Australia: Human Kinetics
Foster-Powell, S. K., Holt, H. A., and Brand-Miller, J. C., 2002, "International table of glycemic index and glycemic load values: 2002", American Journal of Clinical Nutrition 76(1): 5-56.

 

[Valderon]

I wasn't trying to explain all nutrition principals in 100 words or less - I was trying to explain GI in 100 words or less.

I merely responded to clarify the point that "the harder it is to convert to glucose, the better it is for weight loss" <-- That was the quote I responded too ... and that is incorrect. Hence the purpose of my response.

You're clearly argumentative today. Try and relax a little.

 

[roopy]

I merely responded to clarify the point that "the harder it is to convert to glucose, the better it is for weight loss" <-- That was the quote I responded too ... and that is incorrect. Hence the purpose of my response.

You're clearly argumentative today. Try and relax a little.

It is perhaps an over simplification, but is not 'incorrect'.
And simple is what i was going for.

 

[roopy]

First and foremost; that is clearly YOUR opinion.

Secondly, that list was developed by, and published by a leading Australian dietician only a few years ago; on the basis of actual analysis of those foods listed. That is, legitimate measures through actual scientific processes.

I'm quite confident a person who specialises in that particular field would have a far greater knowledge in that area, than you or I. That is why we tend to trust the insight of these professions.

Based on their biochemical analysis of those foods you've attempted to critique in the list:-

Wholemeal Bread:-

• Glycemic Index: 77
• CHO: 12 grams
• Glycemic Load: 9

White Chocolate:-

• Glycemic Index: 44
• CHO: 29 grams
• Glycemic Load: 13

Milo in Milk:-

• Glycemic Index: 33
• CHO: 26 grams
• Glycemic Load: 9

Very, VERY clear differences in their Glycemix Index numbers; in addition to clear categorical organisation (High >70, Medium 55-70, Low <55)

Glen Cardwell - a leading Sports Dietician with over 25 years of experience with both clinical populations and high performance athletes (Australian Rules Football, Super 14 Rugby, and Netball) - released a book titled "Gold Medal Nutrition" - His latest, 4th edition, released in 2006. In his book, a significant listing of foods is available with their categorisations, GI levels, and so forth. That information was adapted from the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, within an article titled: "International Table of Glycemic Index and Glycemic Load Values".

Wholemeal bread has a GI of 50 or less, making it low GI in anyones language - chocolate and milo are both 3 parts sugar, making them high GI in anyone's language.
Your site is rubbish.

 

[Valderon]

Wholemeal bread has a GI of 50 or less, making it low GI in anyones language - chocolate and milo are both 3 parts sugar, making them high GI in anyone's language.
Your site is rubbish.

I've posted the two exact sources of information. You are welcome to find the peer-reviewed article, and text-book if you wish.

For the record:-

Multigrain Bread (GI: 54), Fruit Bread (GI: 51), Pita Bread (GI: 57), Rye Bread: (GI: 58), White Bread (GI: 70), Wholemeal Bread (GI: 77)

In other words. You cannot possibly make a sweeping broad statement about bread in general, or any food group for that matter; whether it be chocolate / milo / dairy / breads etc.

Every food is formulated differently. Not to mention companies are aiming to produce foods (such as bread, ie: Sanitarium), to have lower GI levels in "white bread", by adding more ingredients during the food processing stages. After all, food combinations modify the aggregate / residual GI levels in a final product.

Lastly, you are an incredibly disrespectful young person if you feel that professionals who've worked and specialised in the nutrition and dietetics field for longer than your own professional life in a separate industry all together are 'wrong'. Clearly you have a complex you need to resolve.

 

[Valderon]

Wholemeal bread has a GI of 50 or less, making it low GI in anyones language - chocolate and milo are both 3 parts sugar, making them high GI in anyone's language.
Your site is rubbish.

I'd also like to point out, that in addition to the very credible sources of information I've used:-

• Cardwell, G. (2006). Gold Medal Nutrition (4th ed.). Australia: Human Kinetics

• Foster-Powell, S. K., Holt, H. A., and Brand-Miller, J. C., 2002, "International table of glycemic index and glycemic load values: 2002", American Journal of Clinical Nutrition 76(1): 5-56.

If you used the Internet, and typed "GI of Wholemeal Bread" into Google Search , you will find webpages from America, the United Kingdom, and Australia which all state that Wholemeal Bread have GI values ranging from 68 - 77 , which , to use your phrasing roopy, is "high in anyones language".

 

[Valderon]

As for meal timing; eat what suits you best. Most of the research suggests that it doesn't matter how many meals you eat a day or when they're timed, just that you're eating the right amount of calories with the right macro-nutrient mix. Just make sure you have carbs before and after a workout, and protein at least after but also before if possible. Thus carbs at night isn't bad as such, so long as your not going over your carb limit.

A very good post, Martli. The reality is, dietary requirements, much like exercise prescription; are highly individual. Unfortunately, due to the high population levels around the world; it becomes almost necessary to define a "normal population", and use that as a tool to base health-related, and exercise-related recommendations on.

I've quoted your above paragraph, because, a person earlier in this thread asked a question which you've answered well in the quote above. The timing of when you have carbohydrates really isn't important in relation to the time of day. While we all operate on a particular rhythm (circadian rhythm); whereby certain biological processes are optimal at particular times of the day, in comparison to other times of the day; in relation to carbohydrate, or food consumption in general, the time of day really isn't a consideration worth making.

 

[roopy]

I'd also like to point out, that in addition to the very credible sources of information I've used:-

• Cardwell, G. (2006). Gold Medal Nutrition (4th ed.). Australia: Human Kinetics

• Foster-Powell, S. K., Holt, H. A., and Brand-Miller, J. C., 2002, "International table of glycemic index and glycemic load values: 2002", American Journal of Clinical Nutrition 76(1): 5-56.

If you used the Internet, and typed "GI of Wholemeal Bread" into Google Search , you will find webpages from America, the United Kingdom, and Australia which all state that Wholemeal Bread have GI values ranging from 68 - 77 , which , to use your phrasing roopy, is "high in anyones language".

You've clearly had a logic bypass if you are advocating a diet of white chocolate, milo milkshakes and white bread.

 

[Valderon]

You've clearly had a logic bypass if you are advocating a diet of white chocolate, milo milkshakes and white bread.

You are just being silly now Roopy.

No one has suggested that.

 

[Kiki]

ummm anyway

Twiz unless you're trying to get really cut and lean, i wouldn't worry about carbs at all! as long as you're not like eating huge amounts of pasta with a creamy sauce. or rice with greasy fried chinese food etc etc

obviously weight loss is essentially about calories in and calories out and technically it doesn't matter what the food is, as long as its a certain calorific amount.

BUT in my experience, when i was younger and would just do that and include chocolate and eat basically bread and pasta i was skinny but it was more skinny fat.

when i keep my carbs lower and work out, it's a more lean and toned look.

i guess it depends what you want ur body to look like.

 

[Thomas]

You've clearly had a logic bypass if you are advocating a diet of white chocolate, milo milkshakes and white bread.

Err...he's not. Are you just in a beligerent mood or something?

He's merely stating what the GI is.

Here's something 3 seconds on Google got me:

And some very unhealthy foods have low to moderate glycemic ratings. Sugar, as in normal table sugar (sucrose), has a moderate rating of 55. So any food high in added sugar would tend towards a moderate rating. And since the presence of fat lowers the glycemic response, foods high in fat would have lower ratings. So white chocolate, being basically a mixture of sugar and fat, has a moderate rating of 44. But this doesn't make white chocolate a healthy food.

http://www.fitnessforoneandall.com/nutrition/article/glycemic_index.htm

 

[roopy]

http://www.fitnessforoneandall.com/nutrition/article/glycemic_index.htm

That's a good article.
Very easy to understand, and shows why various GI lists differ so much, and why they need a lot of work to be done yet.
I think they are on the right track though.

 

[Valderon]

Err...he's not. Are you just in a beligerent mood or something?

He's merely stating what the GI is.

Here's something 3 seconds on Google got me:

http://www.fitnessforoneandall.com/nutrition/article/glycemic_index.htm

Cheers Thomas! , Great quote that sends a clear message.

Interestingly, that URL's Bibliography makes mention of deriving their information from some of the same authors that published the International Glycemic Index listing I used above in my own post(s) on the topic. No doubt well-known researchers in their field! .. Well done mate.