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Central Coast Bears, 2013.

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Quidgybo

Bench
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3,054
Reason will win out. The IC won't be swayed by emotion.
Scare arguments like other codes will take over? Sympathy arguments like we've worked so hard?

As I said above, I'm not against a team being based on the Central Coast. I think it is a strategic target area that the game should tap ASAP. And I'm not against the Bears being back in the comp. I think it would be fantastic if we could give their fans their team back and heal the last wounds of the Super League war.

But overriding both of those I do not want to see an eleventh team based in the area between Newcastle and Wollongong at the expense of other even more important targets. I think that providing easy access to live Rugby League for fans in Perth and Wellington+Christchurch is vital to the game's long term growth. And I think providing more games for Queensland fans is vital to our immediate financial future in the battle for hearts and minds with the AFL. The game will still flourish without the Bears or a team based on the Central Coast.

But given the above, I have no problem giving the Bears an expansion license if one of the existing ten clubs based between Newcastle and Wollongong relocates to one of the areas I've named above (eg. Manly to the Sunshine Coast, or the Sharks to Wellington). I have no problem if the Bears buy out an existing license in the area between Newcastle and Wollongong and move it to Gosford. I've got no problem if one of the existing teams in that area decides to relocate to Gosford. If sadly a team dies in that area, I have no problem if the Bears are handed the surrendered license.

Any of these ways of the Bears or Central Coast getting a team has my full support, I'd love to see the Bears back in and I'd love to see a team on the Central Coast ASAP.

Leigh.
 

Quidgybo

Bench
Messages
3,054
A second Brisbane side based out of Lang Park doesn't make it any easier for them to get to games however.
Then you only got half the point.

It doesn't give the fan in Toowoomba a choice of 7 teams. Or the fan on the Sunshine Coast a choice of 7 teams. But it does give them something other than the Broncos or Titans to make the effort to drive to.

It doesn't give fans in our second biggest Rugby League market a choice of 10 teams in the SE region to follow on television, driving our ratings and thus our television income. But it does give them more than 2.

SE Queensland is not just Brisbane and the Broncos or the Titans. How many more choices do fans between Newcastle and Wollongong need before SE Queensland gets a 3rd?

Leigh.
 

BDGS

Bench
Messages
4,102
It doesn't matter.

50km vs 80km by road, 70km vs 100km by road. It still pales against the 348km that a fan in Mackay has to travel to get to a Cowboys game. That's a long bloody trip each way, especially with night games it means either driving four hours in the dark on two lane unlit undivided highway or staying overnight at a hotel in Townsville.

It's not as far as the 644km Wellington fans would have to drive to see the Warriors. Or the 2163km fans in Auckland would have to fly to have a choice of teams (no road here). The 3420km for Perth fans could be driven but you can cut 700km off that by flying.

Brisbane fans who don't like the Broncos could travel the 83km to see the Titans, otherwise it's 784km to Newcastle. Rockhampton gets the Broncos for 646km or the Cowboys for 721km. Which brings us full circle.

Fans in any of these areas would kill for as much access and as much choice as the Central Coast has for top tier Rugby League.

NRL

You forgot your signature Leigh.

but on topic, some fans travel long distance to watch games. Rocky to Townsville or Brisbane etc and yes its a brilliant effort for those fans to travel to games regularly and a huge pat of the back to those fans, but are there enough to fill their own stadium? Will crowds average the same if not more in that area? what is the proof that a second Brisbane team would get crowds like the Broncos?

I feel that you have to go with an expansion and have a safe expansion along with that. bring in WA, boost them up, give them as much helped as they need, hopefully the IC would give them more help then the NRL and have the safe expansion in the Central Coast Bears, so if something does happen to the 'risky' (even though its not so risky) expansion team you have the 'sure thing' expansion team working well.
 

clarency

Juniors
Messages
1,217
Well then that's where the "teams" disagree... at least with you BDGS...

Brisbane IS a safe expansion. I mean, it is touted as rugby league heart land is it not? As I've said many times I would bet my house on many Broncos fans attending both Broncos and Bris2 games as it would become a weekly thing, not a fortnightly.

Kinda like the AFL did...

Twice.

CCB's continuously state their "advantage" of a guaranteed sell out with their rivals close by, which I don't disgree with. It would sell out. But so would a Bris2 v Broncos match.

What's the capacity comparison between Suncorp and Bluetongue?
 

clarency

Juniors
Messages
1,217
Well then that's where the "teams" disagree... at least with you BDGS...

Brisbane IS a safe expansion. I mean, it is touted as rugby league heart land is it not? As I've said many times I would bet my house on many Broncos fans attending both Broncos and Bris2 games as it would become a weekly thing, not a fortnightly.

Kinda like the AFL did...

Twice.

CCB's continuously state their "advantage" of a guaranteed sell out with their rivals close by, which I don't disgree with. It would sell out. But so would a Bris2 v Broncos match.

What's the capacity comparison between Suncorp and Bluetongue?
 

BDGS

Bench
Messages
4,102
Well then that's where the "teams" disagree... at least with you BDGS...

Brisbane IS a safe expansion. I mean, it is touted as rugby league heart land is it not? As I've said many times I would bet my house on many Broncos fans attending both Broncos and Bris2 games as it would become a weekly thing, not a fortnightly.

Kinda like the AFL did...

Twice.

CCB's continuously state their "advantage" of a guaranteed sell out with their rivals close by, which I don't disgree with. It would sell out. But so would a Bris2 v Broncos match.

What's the capacity comparison between Suncorp and Bluetongue?

So two guaranteed sell out, that compensates for not having a gauge on how second Brisbane team would do for crowd numbers in the other 10 games they play?

On another point, if you think that having 2 Brisbane teams will be at least one game a week in Brisbane each week then you have rocks in your head. Some weeks they will both play there and others they both will be away.

Is Brisbane Rugby League heartland? Yes
Is Brisbane a safe Expansion area? Yes, or it wouldn't be even considered.
Can Brisbane 2 gain community support? Remains to be seen
Can Brisbane 2 subsidies a WA team if it falls on hard times? Remains to be seen
Can Brisbane 2 gain more corporate support then the other heartland bid? as of now, No
Is developing an option to support a local team other then the Broncos possible when creating the team in the same vein as the Brocnos? I don't think so.
 

clarency

Juniors
Messages
1,217
If the IC had any brains they would alternate Broncos and Bris 2 back and forth in fixtures each week, utilising Suncorp to it's full potential.

Bris2 don't have community support yet, though I don't see that happening while they have no team name or mascot etc. Once a proper identity is established they'll be more appealing. Regardless, the belief that it is RL heartland would lead to an assumption that they certainly can gain community support.

Bris2 don't have more corporate support than CCB right now, but most certainly are in a position to become much much bigger. Your "as of now, No" response (opposed to simply "no") tells me that even you are aware of this.

I don't think the method of creation will affect supportability. In fact I'd say creating a team in the same method that has been proven successful before would be a good thing.

I'm going to be doing snoopy dances if the IC p*sses off the Sharks so that all 3 major bids can come in within the next half a decade.
 

BDGS

Bench
Messages
4,102
If the IC had any brains they would alternate Broncos and Bris 2 back and forth in fixtures each week, utilising Suncorp to it's full potential.

Bris2 don't have community support yet, though I don't see that happening while they have no team name or mascot etc. Once a proper identity is established they'll be more appealing. Regardless, the belief that it is RL heartland would lead to an assumption that they certainly can gain community support.

Bris2 don't have more corporate support than CCB right now, but most certainly are in a position to become much much bigger. Your "as of now, No" response (opposed to simply "no") tells me that even you are aware of this.

I don't think the method of creation will affect supportability. In fact I'd say creating a team in the same method that has been proven successful before would be a good thing.

I'm going to be doing snoopy dances if the IC p*sses off the Sharks so that all 3 major bids can come in within the next half a decade.

That's because i see the benefit of another SEQ team and another Brisbane team. However, i don't like the way any of the current SEQ bids are running. Also, the Central Coast is the ideal way to run a bid imo.
 

Beowulf

Juniors
Messages
720
Well then that's where the "teams" disagree... at least with you BDGS...

Brisbane IS a safe expansion. I mean, it is touted as rugby league heart land is it not? As I've said many times I would bet my house on many Broncos fans attending both Broncos and Bris2 games as it would become a weekly thing, not a fortnightly.

Kinda like the AFL did...

Twice.

CCB's continuously state their "advantage" of a guaranteed sell out with their rivals close by, which I don't disgree with. It would sell out. But so would a Bris2 v Broncos match.

What's the capacity comparison between Suncorp and Bluetongue?

Not disagreeing with anything said here - I think another SEQ side is needed, but CC Bears first.

Breakeven point I understand at Suncoprp is around 25K and Bluetongue around 13K. I would be more confident CC Bears would make a profit on almost if not all games than a new side playing out of Suncorp, who would get 25K+ at most at half their games...
 

Beowulf

Juniors
Messages
720
Bris2 don't have more corporate support than CCB right now, but most certainly are in a position to become much much bigger. QUOTE]

Have to diasagree here. SEQ corporate support has to maintain Broncos, Titans, Roar, Suns, United, Reds, Lions....plus the numerous NRL bid teams.

The Central Coast is relying on corporates in the North Sydney-Chatswood-nth Ryde triangle, the 3rd largest corporate area in Australia, which has NO NRL teams, though some would be supporting Sydney FC, Swans or Waratahs.

Corporate potential therefore for a CC Bears is a major bid advantage. They have no shortage of corporates wanting to jump on board.
 

t-ba

Post Whore
Messages
57,771
Then you only got half the point.

It doesn't give the fan in Toowoomba a choice of 7 teams. Or the fan on the Sunshine Coast a choice of 7 teams. But it does give them something other than the Broncos or Titans to make the effort to drive to.

It doesn't give fans in our second biggest Rugby League market a choice of 10 teams in the SE region to follow on television, driving our ratings and thus our television income. But it does give them more than 2.

SE Queensland is not just Brisbane and the Broncos or the Titans. How many more choices do fans between Newcastle and Wollongong need before SE Queensland gets a 3rd?

Leigh.

Like the ever increasing Titans bandwagon. Yes, of course. Lets give them another option when a nascent franchise who appears to be losing 2000 fans a year despite getting better and better (this season excluded).

Titans can settle, 2nd Brisbane can come in at the next round with an NZ franchise.
 

Timmah

LeagueUnlimited News Editor
Staff member
Messages
100,949
Excellent point - a 2nd Brisbane team may very well put the Titans at risk.
 

Goddo

Bench
Messages
4,257
Not disagreeing with anything said here - I think another SEQ side is needed, but CC Bears first.

Breakeven point I understand at Suncoprp is around 25K and Bluetongue around 13K. I would be more confident CC Bears would make a profit on almost if not all games than a new side playing out of Suncorp, who would get 25K+ at most at half their games...

The "Breakeven" point would go down if there were more tenants at Suncorp. I have no idea by how much, but it would go down with more tenants.

Especially a 12 game tenant in winter, ie a RL team.
 
Messages
4,765
No losers with safe Central Coast option

The current tangent taken by opponents of the Central Coast bid, that there are already a surfeit of teams in Sydney that Central Coast residents can readily access, is possibly the biggest fallacy in expansion discussions today.
Other contrarian opinions include the thought a Central Coast team will dilute the fan-base and sponsor availability from existing teams, and that a cashed-up Newcastle can cover the Coast.


Actual travel times debunk the myth about Central Coast proximity. If people believe south-east Queensland is competing with the Central Coast for one expansion slot, note that it is far easier to travel from Ipswich to Suncorp, or Brisbane to the Gold Coast, than it is from Gosford to Brookvale or the SFS, the two ‘closest’ grounds to the Central Coast.


Via public transport it is under one hour from Brisbane to the Gold Coast or Ipswich to Suncorp. By comparison it is over two hours from Gosford to the SFS and nearly two and a half hours to Brookvale. Even to Newcastle’s Energy Australia Stadium is over one and a half hours from Gosford.


Therefore, residents of south-east Queensland already have two teams they can readily access by public transport, while the Central Coast have none. And public transport times, not car or direct kilometres, are the key to NRL plans, as mentioned by David Gallop.


The easy mass movement of fans is the only way to ensure potential mass support for a franchise.


In terms of sponsors, the vast majority of sponsor dollars are coming from Bear heartland in northern Sydney. These companies will not sponsor Manly (and vice-versa to be fair) and hence Manly are not ‘missing out’ on corporate support, while Newcastle effective immediately are in no need of hand-holding.


The Bears are accessing corporates who will only involve themselves with rugby league if a team is called the Bears and play in red and black.


Therefore if the NRL are attracted to the calibre of sponsors the Bears will bring to the table (many of whom are publicly unknown at this stage), they will be made fully aware that they will withdraw from the game if the Bears are not admitted.
Overall, it would bring a net gain of sponsors to the game. The North Sydney-Chatswood-Nth Ryde triangle represents the third-largest corporate zone in Australia and is currently unrepresented.


In direct contrast, the multitude of south-east Queensland bids out there continue to cannibalise each other in the search for corporate support.


The NRL’s Broncos and Titans, A-League’s Roar and Gold Coast United, AFL’s Lions and Suns, and union’s Reds are also competing for the relatively small south-east Queensland corporate pool, and the Titans are a new and fragile entity.


It will be a challenge for these south-east Queensland bid teams to convince the NRL they will have no difficulty securing sufficient corporate support over a long timeframe, and that they will not harm the Broncos or Titans.


The advantage the Bears have with fans, as Souths have proved, is that traditional multi-generational fans will not switch teams. To say that northern Sydney people would simply follow Manly or another team is a myth.


Instead, they have switched codes to union and AFL – to do otherwise would betray their roots and community identity.


This process would escalate should the Bears bid be rejected. David Gallop estimates the loss at over 40,000 thus far. To increase NRL patronage in New South Wales the only option is to include the Bears.


As for the Central Coast, the Northern Eagles debacle ensured that Manly would never be widely popular on the Coast – it took the Bears, despite their historic ties to the region, 10 years of community involvement to gain acceptance.
South-east Queensland bid teams by contrast will have to convince the NRL they are not diluting the fan base from the Broncos or Titans – a difficult task to prove.


Nathan Tinkler’s buy-out removes the perception that Newcastle was a financially weak club in need of protection. Newcastle and the Bears would have a competitive friction exactly like the Mariners and Jets, between two distinct regional communities.
Both will be energetic and local community-focused franchises – dream NRL models.
Nathan Tinkler has said he wants to turn everywhere north of Manly into Knights territory, but to do that he would have to play at least half the Knights home games at Gosford and change the colours to red and black, as well as being called the Bears when playing in Sydney.


For someone that is appealing to the close knit community of Newcastle, this won’t happen – makes for good PR however, which was the whole point. The Knights will be concentrating their resources in the untapped region north of Newcastle up to Coffs Harbour, not south. That’s Bear territory.


http://www.theroar.com.au/2011/04/15/no-losers-with-safe-central-coast-option/
 
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bluetongue_main_left.jpg


Central Coast Bears @ 6520 members!
 

bobmar28

Bench
Messages
4,304
You forgot your signature Leigh.

but on topic, some fans travel long distance to watch games. Rocky to Townsville or Brisbane etc and yes its a brilliant effort for those fans to travel to games regularly and a huge pat of the back to those fans, but are there enough to fill their own stadium? Will crowds average the same if not more in that area? what is the proof that a second Brisbane team would get crowds like the Broncos?

I feel that you have to go with an expansion and have a safe expansion along with that. bring in WA, boost them up, give them as much helped as they need, hopefully the IC would give them more help then the NRL and have the safe expansion in the Central Coast Bears, so if something does happen to the 'risky' (even though its not so risky) expansion team you have the 'sure thing' expansion team working well.

Why would QLD not be a safe expansion?
 

applesauce

Bench
Messages
3,573
Therefore, residents of south-east Queensland already have two teams they can readily access by public transport, while the Central Coast have none. And public transport times, not car or direct kilometres, are the key to NRL plans, as mentioned by David Gallop.

The easy mass movement of fans is the only way to ensure potential mass support for a franchise.

:crazy:

Sounds to me like a BNE positive....
 

bobmar28

Bench
Messages
4,304
Bris2 don't have more corporate support than CCB right now, but most certainly are in a position to become much much bigger. QUOTE]

Have to diasagree here. SEQ corporate support has to maintain Broncos, Titans, Roar, Suns, United, Reds, Lions....plus the numerous NRL bid teams.

The Central Coast is relying on corporates in the North Sydney-Chatswood-nth Ryde triangle, the 3rd largest corporate area in Australia, which has NO NRL teams, though some would be supporting Sydney FC, Swans or Waratahs.

Corporate potential therefore for a CC Bears is a major bid advantage. They have no shortage of corporates wanting to jump on board.

A SEQ bid would not need to have more corporate support than CCB. They would only need enough to satisfy the IC.
 
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