Central Coast Bears, 2013.

[lockyrulz]

Well it's been 10 years and no one has stepped to the plate, nor have the communities of the NS and CC embraced any quick stop over teams only in search of a quick pay day. So you're wrong about the 10 possible replacements. If you want to capture the minds and hearts of these communities, like any other community, you have to dig deep and lay a foundation within the community. You have to give back to the community, represent them 100%, connect with the local residents and junior clubs and schools. Quick plastic replacements are not wanted by anyone.

Only the CCBears are doing this, only the CCBears deserve first dibs at establishing a team there.

The fact no one has done it doesn't mean I am wrong. Plenty of CC people have turned up to watch various NRL teams over the years.

For those who refuse to support nothing but the Bears, well the Bears are still there. Must be bumper crowds for them in the NSW cup with all those hard, passionate supporters yea?

 

[Red&BlackBear]

The fact no one has done it doesn't mean I am wrong. Plenty of CC people have turned up to watch various NRL teams over the years.

For those who refuse to support nothing but the Bears, well the Bears are still there. Must be bumper crowds for them in the NSW cup with all those hard, passionate supporters yea?

The NSBears actually do get good crowds considering it's the NSWCup. But thats besides the point, people want to see their local team represented in the elite rl comp in australiasia. The Central Coast Bears have done tremendous community work to really establish themselves as part of the communities.

The people both old Bears fans and majority of local rl suporting CC/NS residents have spoken, they want the CCBears. I don't need to ask people either, the numbers of our membership drives, casual people coming up to the Bears bid showing their support, the affiliation of all junior clubs show what levels of support the CCBears can achieve.

You need to be part of it to really see the rewards of the bids hard work.

 

[lockyrulz]

The NSBears actually do get good crowds considering it's the NSWCup. But thats besides the point, people want to see their local team represented in the elite rl comp in australiasia. The Central Coast Bears have done tremendous community work to really establish themselves as part of the communities.

The people both old Bears fans and majority of local rl suporting CC/NS residents have spoken, they want the CCBears. I don't need to ask people either, the numbers of our membership drives, casual people coming up to the Bears bid showing their support, the affiliation of all junior clubs show what levels of support the CCBears can achieve.

You need to be part of it to really see the rewards of the bids hard work.

I fail to see how its beside the point. You are forever talking about people who are passionate bears fans, lost to he NRL. So presumably, these 'bears only' fans now fill NSWRL cup games to the brink.

Whats to bet they don't. Maybe bears fans aren't quite as passionate as all that after all.

 

[Red&BlackBear]

I fail to see how its beside the point. You are forever talking about people who are passionate bears fans, lost to he NRL. So presumably, these 'bears only' fans now fill NSWRL cup games to the brink.

Whats to bet they don't. Maybe bears fans aren't quite as passionate as all that after all.

Passion is defined in many ways. Having your team lost for 13 years and the fact that thousands of people spend many dollars, hours and dedication to bring them back is signs of passion.

Having 7200 members for a bid based on the brand value of the "Bears" is support, however the volunteers who worked for free in rain or sunshine are passionate.

Having sponsors who have poured in millions of dollars through out a few attempts at gaining a license is dedication, which comes from passion.

Putting in community work, engaging with the locals through charities or junior football or school programs is passion.

Not giving up and having hope that one day, us thousands of fans can see our team run on the field is passion.

Don't you dare EVER question the passion of us Bears fans. We've gone through more bullsh!t then any other club and we're still here. Give us a team and we'll thank the NRL by influxing their capital and growing the pie for everyone.

 

[Perth Red]

I never said its a criteria. I simply stated a fact. Your stadium is a piece of shit. You desperately need the 90 mill.
And how many showed up?
I know how clubs are run, but i personally couldnt give a f**king toss how many corporate boxes there are.
If youll never be more ready, than you are well and truly f**ked.
Central coast centurions is a feeder team. Just like North Sydney Bears. WA Reds was your only team. North Sydney and Central Coast centurions separately would have had double your memberships and financial supporters if not more. so congrats on 1700 when CCB has over 7 thousand.
Yeh whatever? Only an out of date stadium that is found in Sydney Surburbia has worse drainage and pitch problem more than you do.
Its a f**king joke. And youre all like "whatever" Yeah youre REALLY nailing your point home.
Wow, Youll be owned by WARL. Thats awesome news. Oh wait. Its really not.
Look at melbourne. They needed the financial backing of News limited to actually get anywhere. And youll be owned by WARL.
Well f**king done. Way to sell yourselfs to seem like you have a chance :lol:
You have no idea what infrastructure is do you? To claim that being owned by your stats boarding body, is a f**king laughable idea that you think this helps you...
You dont have the players. You dont have the fans.
Theres a reason why CCBears wins all fan votes and not because they ask their fans for them to vote. Because people actually WANT them in.
Central Coast has companies backing them as well. More than you actually.

So all you have is what ive said a thousand times over.
The only thing you have going for you is the Benjamins and the idea that the NRL has to include AFL heartlands in an effort to be more national.
You can keep on pressing your case till you die.
Lucky for you the IC is going to be run by business men who want to make cash at the expensive of the health of the game.
Adding a team in an AFL heartland will not benefit the game as youll get carted week in week out. Youll be the Cronulla of the west.
At least CC would have stood a chance.

:sarcasm: Clearly clueless and I won't derail the Bears thread anymore discussing the pros and cons of the Wa Reds bid with someone who is clearly ignorant and has no fricking idea of what Perth brings to the table or the state of the game or bid over here. Good luck Bears, with 'tards like this behind you you are going to need it!

 

[Red&BlackBear]

:sarcasm: Clearly clueless and I won't derail the Bears thread anymore discussing the pros and cons of the Wa Reds bid with someone who is clearly ignorant and has no fricking idea of what Perth brings to the table or the state of the game or bid over here. Good luck Bears, with 'tards like this behind you you are going to need it!

There's tards behind and supporting each bid. Everyone has different opinions and outlooks. While it is frusturating arguing with people who seemingly ignore facts, it's not just limited to you and m2d2. Welcome to my world of arguing against brick walls. (no pun).

 

[smithie]

Quick question: Is Bluetongue Stadium upgradeable? In particular an upper tier on the northern stand or is the train line in the way.

 

[Red&BlackBear]

Quick question: Is Bluetongue Stadium upgradeable? In particular an upper tier on the northern stand or is the train line in the way.

Yes and the piers were sunk lower during construction to be able to upgrade the stand to fit a further 6000 spectators.

 

[rednblack]

I fail to see how its beside the point. You are forever talking about people who are passionate bears fans, lost to he NRL. So presumably, these 'bears only' fans now fill NSWRL cup games to the brink.

Whats to bet they don't. Maybe bears fans aren't quite as passionate as all that after all.

Silly argument.

You're comparing apples with oranges. If U2 were to make an appearance at a school concert and play a song with the school kids' band, it doesn't by default turn it into a multi-million dollar, 100,000 spectator production. It remains a school concert!

Comparing any NRL-level fixture against a lower grade is simply stupid. Its like a formula 1 race being compared against an amateur day at Eastern Creek. (And don't forget, the majority of NSW cup representatives ARE amateurs by definition).

If you really want to compare apples with apples, look at how many people attend games for, say Canterbury's NSW cup side. Or Wests, Manly, Balmain or Cronulla. The fact is, Norths get as good or better crowds than all of these. If supporters of these other clubs were truly passionate, they'd be out watching their junior and feeder teams in action just as often.

Don't you DARE insinuate that bears fans are not as passionate or MORE so than any other fan. The fact that so many of us have not chosen a 'new' team, have remained loyal and interested all these years, is a very clear sign of our passion for the Red and Black. there are great hordes of people that I know personally, both from the club and from elsewhere, who are lost to rugby league. From the NRL's own reports, there are many thousands of us on the same, very large, boat. I maintain an interest in RL because I believe it to be a fantastic game, but I do not support anyone in the NRL. I know a whole load more who haven't even maintained this level of support for the game, and have tried following the swans or the warratahs. All, however, have maintained a passion for the bears, and look forward to the day that we are re-introduced to the elite competition.

Make arguments all you like about FACTS pertaining to respective bids, I absolutely encourage you, but please quit with this notion that bears fans are a minority, a dying breed, to be lockout out and ignored. We exist, and we are passionate. That is fact. Your cumbersome notion that we are not is conjecture at best, and offensive to many.

If you had just a modicum of sense in the grey matter between your ears, you'd have gleaned a very clear perception of the pride and passion that course through the veins of any Bears fan by simply reading the posts in this and many other threads to which you contribute.

 

[lockyrulz]

Silly argument.

You're comparing apples with oranges. If U2 were to make an appearance at a school concert and play a song with the school kids' band, it doesn't by default turn it into a multi-million dollar, 100,000 spectator production. It remains a school concert!

Comparing any NRL-level fixture against a lower grade is simply stupid. Its like a formula 1 race being compared against an amateur day at Eastern Creek. (And don't forget, the majority of NSW cup representatives ARE amateurs by definition).

If you really want to compare apples with apples, look at how many people attend games for, say Canterbury's NSW cup side. Or Wests, Manly, Balmain or Cronulla. The fact is, Norths get as good or better crowds than all of these. If supporters of these other clubs were truly passionate, they'd be out watching their junior and feeder teams in action just as often.

Don't you DARE insinuate that bears fans are not as passionate or MORE so than any other fan. The fact that so many of us have not chosen a 'new' team, have remained loyal and interested all these years, is a very clear sign of our passion for the Red and Black. there are great hordes of people that I know personally, both from the club and from elsewhere, who are lost to rugby league. From the NRL's own reports, there are many thousands of us on the same, very large, boat. I maintain an interest in RL because I believe it to be a fantastic game, but I do not support anyone in the NRL. I know a whole load more who haven't even maintained this level of support for the game, and have tried following the swans or the warratahs. All, however, have maintained a passion for the bears, and look forward to the day that we are re-introduced to the elite competition.

Make arguments all you like about FACTS pertaining to respective bids, I absolutely encourage you, but please quit with this notion that bears fans are a minority, a dying breed, to be lockout out and ignored. We exist, and we are passionate. That is fact. Your cumbersome notion that we are not is conjecture at best, and offensive to many.

If you had just a modicum of sense in the grey matter between your ears, you'd have gleaned a very clear perception of the pride and passion that course through the veins of any Bears fan by simply reading the posts in this and many other threads to which you contribute.

Youre kinda missing the point. but I'll put that down to your stupidity. I am responding to BS claims that Bears fans are somehow MORE passionate then say, a Western Corridor or Reds fan would be. It is crapola.

That just leaves you with which bid is best for the game, and CC doesn't stack up no matter how Bears fans want to pretend it does.

 

[rednblack]

Youre kinda missing the point. but I'll put that down to your stupidity. I am responding to BS claims that Bears fans are somehow MORE passionate then say, a Western Corridor or Reds fan would be. It is crapola.

That just leaves you with which bid is best for the game, and CC doesn't stack up no matter how Bears fans want to pretend it does.

Who claimed other supporters weren't passionate? The respective bids don't have the numbers of fans that the CC bid have so far been able to produce, which tends to indicate a very high level of support so far, yet I've no doubt that they (other fans) will be passionate when they materialize. I never claimed that western corridor or reds fans wouldn't be passionate. Read my post again moron.

And if your opinion is that there is a better option for the next license, that's fine. We all have our opinions, and I respect that you THINK others have more merit than the CC. However, this is merely your subjective opinion, and not based on ALL the facts. To say that the CC bid doesn't stack up, however you look at it, is plain false. The ONLY reason you've given for not including the CC is that "its another NSW team!!". Sure, this is a hurdle that must be addressed when the IC calls for nominations, but it certainly does not mean that the bid does not stack up, nor does it mean it won't be successful. EVERY other box is ticked, as pointed out many, many times already, both here and elsewhere. While some of the other bids have done lots of things well, and I'm sure even SOME things better than the CC, when looked at as a package, the CC bid seems to have more of the boxes ticked than any other current bid. If you see otherwise, that's fine, but back up your claims with fact. Tell us how the others are better, but be reasonable by accepting the other bids' shortcomings as well.

 

[lockyrulz]

Who claimed other supporters weren't passionate? The respective bids don't have the numbers of fans that the CC bid have so far been able to produce, which tends to indicate a very high level of support so far, yet I've no doubt that they (other fans) will be passionate when they materialize. I never claimed that western corridor or reds fans wouldn't be passionate. Read my post again moron.

And if your opinion is that there is a better option for the next license, that's fine. We all have our opinions, and I respect that you THINK others have more merit than the CC. However, this is merely your subjective opinion, and not based on ALL the facts. To say that the CC bid doesn't stack up, however you look at it, is plain false. The ONLY reason you've given for not including the CC is that "its another NSW team!!". Sure, this is a hurdle that must be addressed when the IC calls for nominations, but it certainly does not mean that the bid does not stack up, nor does it mean it won't be successful. EVERY other box is ticked, as pointed out many, many times already, both here and elsewhere. While some of the other bids have done lots of things well, and I'm sure even SOME things better than the CC, when looked at as a package, the CC bid seems to have more of the boxes ticked than any other current bid. If you see otherwise, that's fine, but back up your claims with fact. Tell us how the others are better, but be reasonable by accepting the other bids' shortcomings as well.

The other bids are better because they are better for the tv rights deal. It really is that simple. The next two teams should be a SE qld bid and a Perth bid for that reason.

 

[rednblack]

The other bids are better because they are better for the tv rights deal. It really is that simple. The next two teams should be a SE qld bid and a Perth bid for that reason.

Exactly, thankyou for proving my point. That's the ONE potential negative within a better overall bid package than any. No other bid (to the best of my knowledge) can exceed the CC bid team on any other criterion. Yes, this potential downside will need to be addressed, but the bid stacks up, whether you choose to acknowledge it or not. Its simply a matter of how much closer the other bids get the quality of the CC bid. In my opinion, we will definitely have some competition when the time comes. However, they all have plenty of work to do in order to achieve the current position of the bears.

 

[lockyrulz]

Exactly, thankyou for proving my point. That's the ONE potential negative within a better overall bid package than any. No other bid (to the best of my knowledge) can exceed the CC bid team on any other criterion. Yes, this potential downside will need to be addressed, but the bid stacks up, whether you choose to acknowledge it or not. Its simply a matter of how much closer the other bids get the quality of the CC bid. In my opinion, we will definitely have some competition when the time comes. However, they all have plenty of work to do in order to achieve the current position of the bears.

How are you going to 'address it'? Maybe buy a giant bulldozer and move the central coast somewhere else?

 

[Goddo]

Yes, this potential downside will need to be addressed, but the bid stacks up, whether you choose to acknowledge it or not.

How do you change the geography?:crazy:

 

[rednblack]

How do you change the geography?:crazy:

Only an imbecile would suggest changing geography. Surely it was pretty clear that I did not suggest this, and suggesting that I did misses the point I was making.

The fact is, the CC bears bid team have to approach this problem, knowing that they (obviously) can't change the situation. They must address the issue of geography, by maximizing all their positive attributes. Any they will submit their proposal to the IC when called for with ALL the facts, including the evidence of how profitable a CC team will be for the NRL. By "addressing the issue", I simply mean they cannot ignore it. They must (and will) factor in ALL aspects of their bid, not just those that make their bid attractive whilst ignoring the unattractive aspects (as some other bids and forumites seem to be doing).

 

[lockyrulz]

Exactly, so once we cut through all the BS, the CC bid CANNOT stack up to the other options in regards to what is best for the sport.

There is nothing the CC bears can do that can make up the difference, forget it, it's ridiculous.

 

[rednblack]

Exactly, so once we cut through all the BS, the CC bid CANNOT stack up to the other options in regards to what is best for the sport.

There is nothing the CC bears can do that can make up the difference, forget it, it's ridiculous.

BS? Where is the BS? Where are the untruths, the misleading press releases? There is no BS, everything about this bid will be strong.

According to you, however, we could have a "drop-in" team in say Adelaide can we? No need for any strategic plan, no need for a strong supporter base, no need for one of the biggest untapped junior pools in the country, no need for custom-built facilities, no need for a strong brand and image, no need for a community that wants the side, no need for engagement WITH that community by the club... But at least fox will be able to spread to a new market, so all will be well!! THAT is BS!!

But you suggest that location trumps ALL of these things. That they amount to nothing. What you're saying is that you really don't understand the real strength of the foundations upon which this bid will be built.

Sure, any of these thing can theoretically exist in MORE desirable locations than the Central Coast. Many of them in fact already do exist, to varying degrees, within some of the other contending bids. However, the fact remains that no-one else has ALL of it and more.

Thankfully the people upon who's shoulders rest the decision-making process which is to come,will see the bigger picture, and will come to a conclusion that best benefits rugby league in this country, not just for the next 3-5 years, but beyond, well into the future. They will not take your short-sighted, uninformed OPINION that the value of a team on the CC is negligible. If two other bids are chosen, yes I will be upset, but I can promise you that in their current states, the only thing ANY other bid trumps this one on, will be location.

Besides, you seem to be clutching at straws - only a few posts ago, your argument was that CC fans wouldn't be PASSIONATE enough, and others would be more deserving. To which do you object most - our lack of passion, or our location? Or perhaps you just wouldn't like the bears back for some other dubious reason, which will be no doubt just as subjective as all of your other observations.

 

[Perth Red]

According to you, however, we could have a "drop-in" team in say Adelaide can we? No need for any strategic plan, no need for a strong supporter base, no need for one of the biggest untapped junior pools in the country, no need for custom-built facilities, no need for a strong brand and image, no need for a community that wants the side, no need for engagement WITH that community by the club... But at least fox will be able to spread to a new market, so all will be well!! THAT is BS!!

.

I don't think anyone is suggesting such a thing, what is being suggested is that if Perth and a Brisbane bid manage to show corporate and fan support then geography will become the key differentiation point. Reality is all the main bids have a suitable stadium, Bears have some signed deals where the others haven't yet announced any, Bears and to a lesser degree Perth have shown they have the fanbase where as no Brisbane bid has. TV $'s seem to favour Brisbane and Perth and clubs (for what influence they have) seem to not favour CC.
If they were maing a decision today it would likely be Bears, Perth, Brisbane,WC in that order. By next year when the bids are called for and all the deals are on the table who knows?

 

[rednblack]

I don't think anyone is suggesting such a thing, what is being suggested is that if Perth and a Brisbane bid manage to show corporate and fan support then geography will become the key differentiation point. Reality is all the main bids have a suitable stadium, Bears have some signed deals where the others haven't yet announced any, Bears and to a lesser degree Perth have shown they have the fanbase where as no Brisbane bid has. TV $'s seem to favour Brisbane and Perth and clubs (for what influence they have) seem to not favour CC.
If they were maing a decision today it would likely be Bears, Perth, Brisbane,WC in that order. By next year when the bids are called for and all the deals are on the table who knows?

Precisely. This has been my point all along! There are no bids that can currently show more suitability than that of the CC bears. You say, and I completely agree, that IF all other things become equal (and that is FAR from the case as is currently stands), then geographic location might prove to be a factor. How much a factor depends on the actual difference in value offered by a broadcaster, which will be directly proportionate with how much they can sell their on-air advertising time for. Will they be willing to pay more for games involving a perth team? Probably. A brisbane team? Possibly. A massive difference? Doubtful. How MUCH more will depend on a hell of a lot more than one would expect. For instance, did everyone realize that an identical program might be shown on two different networks, say 9 and 7, yet advertisers will pay more for ads shown on one than the other? This is based almost entirely on network-wide national ratings from the PREVIOUS year, and across all programs. That is to say, if 9 won the ratings year (which in 2011 looks increasingly unlikely), they could charge more to air the same ad, during an identical broadcast than 7 could. No-one knows how much any of the broadcasters will offer. Hell, the "experts" can't even decide how much to expect yet! As leigh has opined several times recently, if it is a (relatively) small difference over the course of the deal period, the IC will have to consider which option(s) would offer the best cost-benefit for the game as a whole, whilst also considering any other pros/cons a successful applicant might deliver to the game, and finding the right overall balance. It is not ALL about the money. Mostly perhaps, but not completely.

So, if it comes to it, location may prove to be a point of difference. That, however, is still a significant IF in my opinion. I fully understand that all prospective bids are still under construction, the CC included. And I am positive a whole lot will change in every bid between now and whenever proposals are finally called for. As you said, who knows what will happen. The fact remains though, that significant gains are required of every other bid to reach the stage that the CC is currently at (with Perth being the only other with significant progress as far as I can determine).

This said, that notion of the locky fan club that the bears bid "CANNOT stack up" is even more preposterous than his moronic opinion that bears supporters are dispassionate and undeserving of a team. His blinkered, uninformed view will not be changed by my post, I can accept that. This forum is for opinions, and I'll accept that he would prefer not to see the bears in the NRL for whatever reasons he so chooses. I, for my part however, will continue to point out the faults and significant flaws in his arguments, such as they are. I welcome enlightened discussion of the CC bid, but to simply argue that the "CC won't get in cos they're just not good enough" is childish. If he (or anyone else for that matter) showed reliable evidence that the CC Bears would not contribute significantly to NRL coffers, I encourage them to show us all how they have come to their conclusion, because thus far, I've heard nothing but conjecture on this front.

My message to all bears fans would simply be to keep the fires burning! We're in a great position, regardless of the uninformed opinions of a few. Most reasonable, intelligent human beings should be able to see just how strong our bid will be. Keep up all your support, and let's make some of these detractors eat their words WHEN the bears are back in a couple of years!

Go you bears!