Central Coast Bears NRL Bid.

[Perth Red]

I don;t think it's a question of if NSW needs another team, or even is a CC is more sustainable in the short term. It is more what footprint do the NRL want over the coming decades. I can;t see any expansion after this next 2 team expansion for 20 years+ so where they go next will be a very long term considered decision.

I have no doubts the CC Bears would add more and be more sustainable than some current NSW teams but that is not what the NRL are considering. They are considering where do they want the game to be exposed to over the next 20 years.

All the signs are that Perth are clearly a target area and unless the WARL really stuff up the bid in the next 18 months it is hard to see past WA getting a team. So who gets the other? Brisbane has many compelling reasons for another team but the current bids look very shaky (though i hear the Bombers are about to ramp things up over the next 12 months), Bears have a strong business case but add little to the national footprint, is anywhere else really in contention? I don't think so.

Three into two doesn't go so someone is going to be disappointed.

 

[BuffaloRules]

. It is more what footprint do the NRL want over the coming decades. I can;t see any expansion after this next 2 team expansion for 20 years+ so where they go next will be a very long term considered decision.

Three into two doesn't go so someone is going to be disappointed.

I don't necessarily agree.

Whilst not part of the current mix, there will be a 2nd NZ team within 10 years.

I am a fan of Perth joining, but ultimately NZ is more important in the medium term as they produce many NRL players, and they pay their own way through their TV deal.

WA is decades away from this, but you have got to start sometime.

 

[Perth Red]

Given the financial problems the Warriors have faced and the general lack of finals success I am not so convinced, plus Wellington has no bid. If they were crying out for a team you think someone would be bidding or one?

 

[BuffaloRules]

Lack of finals success?

They have made 2 GF's in 10 years. They have done OK.

Like a lot of other clubs, their financial problems appear eased with the mew money coming into the game.

I really think that a WA fan shouldn't be too critical of other teams finances, as they will be dependant on NRL handouts for a long time after they come in.

I'm confident that a 2nd NZ bid will be up and running 5 or so years down the track.

They can't come in before 2022 anyway, so why bother wasting money and energy flapping around now.

 

[docbrown]

At the end of the day we're all just offering our opinions on the expansion issue, some more subjectively than others, in large part because the NRL have been indecisive on the matter. I think it's pointless deriding someone just because their opinion happens to be different to your own particular agenda, at the end of the day it is just an internet forum...

Anyway, I'll throw this out for discussion/attack. Here's how I would categorize the future markets from a marketing perspective.

PNG – major under-serviced market, strong growth, low income, strong existing base
Melbourne/VIC – major serviced market, strong growth, high income, reasonable existing base
Rest of New Zealand – major under-serviced market, low growth, high income, reasonable existing base
Perth/WA – major under-serviced market, strong growth, high income, weak existing base
South West Brisbane – major serviced market, strong growth, high income, strong existing base
Adelaide/SA – major under-serviced market, weak growth, high income, weak existing base
Fiji – middle under-serviced market, weak growth, low income, reasonable existing base
Central Coast – middle under-serviced market, strong growth, high income, strong existing base
Sunshine Coast – middle under-serviced market, strong growth, high income, strong existing base
Tasmania – middle untapped market, low growth, high income, weak existing base
Central Qld – minor under-serviced market, strong growth, high income, strong existing base
Darwin/NT – minor under-serviced market, weak growth, high income, strong existing base

I've said it before, I'd have no problem with the comp expanding to 18 teams within the next 5 years and 20 teams by decade's end. With the money that's starting to come into the game and with new talent pools growing/available there are enough under-serviced markets with strong/growing bases for it to be sustainable. Any growth after that would be dependent on the success and stability of the 20 team competition.

For a 20 team competition:

Perth/WA - most urgent, nationalization, strong growth
South West Brisbane - strong growth, increases QLD share, lower risk
Central Coast - strong growth with Bears brand revitalises North Sydney, lower risk, but without Bears brand Adelaide would be ahead
New Zealand 2 - major market that also benefits international growth

Note: if Central Coast isn't part of the NRL's plan for a 20 team comp then one of the 4 markets chosen should carry the Bears branding for the North Sydney revitalisation and away base

Also there is potential for a contraction of Sydney teams preferably through an inter-Sydney merger to create an additional place for expansion. In this scenario I'd have no problem with the 5 new teams being WA, Brisbane2, New Zealand2, Central Coast Bears and Adelaide.

Potential Future Markets:
All of these markets could be meanwhile serviced by trial games, proper NRL games, rep matches, improving local comps, increase NRL player numbers etc

Adelaide - nationalisation, major market but weak base and low growth
Sunshine Coast - strong growth and strong base, increases QLD share
Melbourne - depends on Storm's long term success, major future growth potential
Central Qld - depends on future population growth
PNG - depends on socio-economic changes, improves international angle
Darwin/NT - small market with small growth
Tasmania - small market with small growth and base
Fiji - similar to PNG but smaller market

 

[Perth Red]

.

I really think that a WA fan shouldn't be too critical of other teams finances, as they will be dependant on NRL handouts for a long time after they come in.

.

Not sure why you think this? We have an achievable target of 15k members, a 7 figure sponsor lined up to kick us off, a good stadium deal with the support of the WA govt. As long as we don't have to pay other teams travel we'll be fine
Don't judge us by the Melbourne experience.

 

[Beowulf]

Note: if Central Coast isn't part of the NRL's plan for a 20 team comp then one of the 4 markets chosen should carry the Bears branding for the North Sydney revitalisation and away base

Not too many issues with your summation. The point I've highlighted is one I think that everyone would agree on. The example of the Swans is so relevant and ironic, given that AFL relocation is impacting hard on RL in Bears heartland - an area the NRL as yet have not supported relocation with (CC Bears) - justice/karma, call it what you will.

While I strongly believe the CC Bears are the way to go, I must admit I would support an interstate Bears team when playing in Sydney, like the Bloods fans in Sth Melbourne, if carefully integrated as per the AFL example (regular visits to junior clubs, base there whilst in Sydney, open training clinics at Nth Sydney Oval, school visits, Nth Sydney kept as NSW Cup feeder).

If the NRL forgo the Coast, to save a Foundation brand and fan base a la Swans would appear a no-brainer. Not sure if they have brains at Moore Park however....:roll:

 

[Perth Red]

The problem with that I can see is the difficulty in who would be responsible for the decision making and running of the NRL club. I can't see the private backers of the Bombers being interested in sharing and I doubt the WARL will want to feel that all their hard work in developing a WA brand is being wasted by taking on a Sydney brand. Best bet might be the Western Corridor Bid or CQ. Neither have a brand released and both could do with a stronger case for inclusion.

Sad thing is if the NRL/Gallop had the foresight in 2008 he could have encouraged the Bears to partner with WARL and get ready for admittance in 2011 or 13. That boat has sailed now. Mind you Elias and Sage might welcome you with open arms lol.

 

[Clarke]

In relation to the statement that NSW does not need an 11th team my source is....Blind Freddy.

Does Mr Freddy work in an official capacity with the NRL?

 

[BuffaloRules]

Not sure why you think this? We have an achievable target of 15k members, a 7 figure sponsor lined up to kick us off, a good stadium deal with the support of the WA govt. As long as we don't have to pay other teams travel we'll be fine
Don't judge us by the Melbourne experience.

By the sounds of it, you wont need any further handout at all other than the same grant given to every club...

Sounds great but I'm a little skeptical...

 

[Perth Red]

some would argue they are mostly Blind Freddys at NRLHQ!

 

[Joker's Wild]

Does Mr Freddy work in an official capacity with the NRL?

 

[Perth Red]

By the sounds of it, you wont need any further handout at all other than the same grant given to every club...

Sounds great but I'm a little skeptical...

If the business model I have seen is to be believed then no we shouldn;t need handouts, we should be operating on a $18million budget according to the figures I have seen. I would hope that the ARLC will give the WARL much better funding to grow the jnr and grass roots elements of the game as well as for general marketing to raise the profile of the game. This should be ringfenced for those purposes though, as should a large chunk of melbournes extra money imo. It would be good to see the ARLC fund an SG ball and NSW cup team for the Pirates as part of the overall growth package for the game in WA.

 

[flippikat]

Not too many issues with your summation. The point I've highlighted is one I think that everyone would agree on. The example of the Swans is so relevant and ironic, given that AFL relocation is impacting hard on RL in Bears heartland - an area the NRL as yet have not supported relocation with (CC Bears) - justice/karma, call it what you will.

While I strongly believe the CC Bears are the way to go, I must admit I would support an interstate Bears team when playing in Sydney, like the Bloods fans in Sth Melbourne, if carefully integrated as per the AFL example (regular visits to junior clubs, base there whilst in Sydney, open training clinics at Nth Sydney Oval, school visits, Nth Sydney kept as NSW Cup feeder).

If the NRL forgo the Coast, to save a Foundation brand and fan base a la Swans would appear a no-brainer. Not sure if they have brains at Moore Park however....:roll:

Of course there's always a third option - relocation to New Zealand

If Queenslanders aren't keen on having the Bears as a brand, and the NRL doesn't regard the Central Coast as an expansion priority - then it's worth considering a move eastwards.

Red & black are the traditional colours of Canterbury (ie Christchurch & surrounding towns) so there's potential there - not sure how soon Christchurch would be ready post-earthquake, but a Bears v Warriors rivalry would plug straight into the great Auckland v Canterbury battles across all of NZ sport.

 

[Henri Cartier-Bresson]

Of course there's always a third option - relocation to New Zealand

If Queenslanders aren't keen on having the Bears as a brand, and the NRL doesn't regard the Central Coast as an expansion priority - then it's worth considering a move eastwards.

Red & black are the traditional colours of Canterbury (ie Christchurch & surrounding towns) so there's potential there - not sure how soon Christchurch would be ready post-earthquake, but a Bears v Warriors rivalry would plug straight into the great Auckland v Canterbury battles across all of NZ sport.

This whole, hedging of bets by traditional Norths fans only serves to undermine the CC Bears bid. And displays a callous disengenuousness toward the people of the Coast ... :?

 

[docbrown]

This whole, hedging of bets by traditional Norths fans only serves to undermine the CC Bears bid. And displays a callous disengenuousness toward the people of the Coast ... :?

Despite getting axed by NRL management the Bears have been out on the Central Coast promoting Rugby League for the past 15 years with pretty much no support from the NRL.

Honestly the way they continue to get treated is pretty shabby. All the NRL needed to do is just say "Hey, you're wasting your time and money." But no, they can't even get that.

If the NRL choose not to put a team on the Central Coast, it will be the NRL screwing the Central Coast over, not the Bears.

Given all that, I can't begrudge any rugby league fan who simply wants to see their side live again. Resurrecting the Bears franchise to reinvigorate league in North Sydney should be a major consideration in any future expansion strategy.

 

[Beowulf]

This whole, hedging of bets by traditional Norths fans only serves to undermine the CC Bears bid. And displays a callous disengenuousness toward the people of the Coast ... :?

I don't think you can call the Norths-CC relationship hedging our bets. The CC was directly part of the North Sydney catchment (like Manly) from 1908 to 1947. After then, the CC continued to wear red and black as their rep colours till the 1980's, when they changed to yellow and blue. The Bears have always been the 'natural' feeder area for the Coast, and the Bears since 1980 identified the northern part of their 'natural' zone would be their future home - Chatswood, Hornsby and the CC were identified and in 1991 serious relocation was attempted, but a few local CC clubs objected. The Bears persisted, in 1997 changed their name in anticipation to the CC Bears and we know what happened after the Bears committed everything to the Coast and stadium. Despite Manly removing themselves after the JV failed, the Bears remained in the community, trying to get the side up and running, have opened offices at Erina, employed locals, donated to charities, assisted with fundraising, assisted local RL clubs, you name it. I personally have committed over 1000 hours over the past few years as a volunteer, forgoing all that time with my young family to get the CC a team. So to say the Bears are not committed is disappointing to read...

Despite zero support from anyone, only the Bears have committed to the region. Nothing has changed, and all the discussions on recent pages only relate to a scenario IF the CC is rejected by the LEAGUE.

If the NRL do say forget the CC, and the NRL & Bears decide that they look for a JV interstate to keep the brand alive (many suggest the NS Bears will fold if this bid fails), isn't that understandable? Any anger should surely be directed at the NRL/News/unsupportive clubs, not Bears.

 

[Perth Red]

Looking at the new NRL CEO's comments this week I think the Bears need a plan B and quick. It is clear they want a more National footprint and another NSW club isn't going to meet that objective.

 

[Diesel]

Looking at the new NRL CEO's comments this week I think the Bears need a plan B and quick. It is clear they want a more National footprint and another NSW club isn't going to meet that objective.

A few rumbling on this forum is looking at getting the Bears to look at other options, and Brisbane is IMO a good option to at least investigate.

I realise they have done a lot of work on the CC and they were royally screwed over when the NRL did some culling in the late 90's and from the way they were treated they should be entered in the next round of expansion regardless if there is an odd number.

The only change the Bears have in NSW is if a current Sydney team got into a lot of trouble and couldn't continue or if a number of teams relocate which isn't going to happen since all clubs are far better off now than they were 12 months ago.

Brisbane, Adelaide or NZ are B-Plans that should seriously be looked into

 

[flippikat]

This whole, hedging of bets by traditional Norths fans only serves to undermine the CC Bears bid. And displays a callous disengenuousness toward the people of the Coast ... :?

I'm a Warriors fan in Wellington, but I can't get to any games in Auckland anymore.. with a young son to support I can't manage treking all the way there - financially or logistically. I am going to the game against the Bulldogs this year but that's it.

If a Wellington team entered the NRL, it's a different story - I'd support them instead, and be able to go to some games. If I find a regular babysitter maybe I'd scrape the cash together for a season ticket too.

But I digress- getting back to the bears situation.. my first choice would be for a 'home grown' identity for a Wellington team, HOWEVER if a current Sydney NRL club wanted to relocate or if the Bears wanted to be the brand for Wellington then I'd welcome them and support them all the same.

Especially if it was a choice between having a relocated team and having to wait longer (or having no team).