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Coaching preference for 2024

What are you hoping for in our next coaching appointment?

  • Rookie Coach

    Votes: 21 14.5%
  • Premiership Winning Coach

    Votes: 105 72.4%
  • NRL Experience coach with no Premiership wins

    Votes: 6 4.1%
  • Coach from Overseas

    Votes: 5 3.4%
  • Extend Current coach

    Votes: 8 5.5%

  • Total voters
    145

Parko1310

Juniors
Messages
1,464
It's the effort that a coach and the players combined need to put in to improve the Dragons.

More effective effort will go a long way.

The coach needs control. He determines how the team as a whole needs to play as a team in all facets of the game. He needs to understand in depth the rules and regulations and know how to bend or tweak a few. He has got to be able to do good analysis of the opposition, set winning game plans after establishing strengths and weaknesses of opposition teams. He needs to be a strong motivator and mentor and be understanding and prepared to listen to the players and other assistants.

Rookie coaches have to start from scratch when they go from assistants to the head coach. They all did at one stage of their careers - the likes of Bellamy being an assistant under Bennett is an example of so many. Those former assistant coaches that show ability like Fitzy, Webster, Ciraldo etc got their chances and are doing pretty good so far. Some are so so and some not able to get a head coaching gig, but they are the breaks in sport.

I sense that the Dragons have been working on a replacement for some time and hopefully they are almost to the point that they have made a decision. That decision would be a really hard one to make and they would need to have fall back options on the basis that the first choice might change his mind. Who they select and eventually sign up on whatever deal that best suits the club and the future coach is so important as I'm sure that any further failings will see the Joint Venture more than a laughing stock and there will be no chance of any resurrection.

Ryles I think is still umming and arring. I don't know if Hasler has even been approached. Flanno has said he hasn't been approached, Hornby is doing well as Demetriou's assistant and to me they will make the grand final so it's hard to see him leaving Souths just to be an assistant. Maybe he could be the one that the Board has in mind to go for. Dean Young, I'd leave out. I've seen a Ryles/Hornby/Young combination possibility which could work, but there are too many agendas in getting all three at once.

I just hope that the Board knows what they are doing and who they are after and will get. Don't create another mess for heavens sake.
Agree with most you say although I don't think Ryles is umming and arring. The Dragons have their man in my opinion. It makes sense that the Dragons wouldn't announce this for a little while longer. Firstly, we're playing the Roosters this weekend. Secondly, Griffin has only just been sacked, let the dust settle before making another big announcement as to the future of the coaching position. Thirdly, Ryles may not want it made public too soon, the Roosters reportedly don't like keeping people around who are breaking contract. And lastly, the Roosters reportedly want dispensation for Ryles leaving. Webb said an announcement is likely to be made anytime in the next month. Is that how long he anticipates negotiations with the Roosters regarding Ryles coming over will take? Pretty likely
 

Crush

Coach
Messages
11,351
Ryles wants 5 years but the club doesn't hence the delay.
CC
Just give him the 5 years I say, he’s the best option on the market.
What are they going to do otherwise? Give Hornby a 3 year deal?
Ciraldo got a 5 year deal at dogs, same same.
Just fricken do it, the players will then start to play for their positions, and I reckon Ryles will demand a bit more respect than Hornby from the players and board.
 
Messages
17,215
It's the effort that a coach and the players combined need to put in to improve the Dragons.

More effective effort will go a long way.

The coach needs control. He determines how the team as a whole needs to play as a team in all facets of the game. He needs to understand in depth the rules and regulations and know how to bend or tweak a few. He has got to be able to do good analysis of the opposition, set winning game plans after establishing strengths and weaknesses of opposition teams. He needs to be a strong motivator and mentor and be understanding and prepared to listen to the players and other assistants.

Rookie coaches have to start from scratch when they go from assistants to the head coach. They all did at one stage of their careers - the likes of Bellamy being an assistant under Bennett is an example of so many. Those former assistant coaches that show ability like Fitzy, Webster, Ciraldo etc got their chances and are doing pretty good so far. Some are so so and some not able to get a head coaching gig, but they are the breaks in sport.

I sense that the Dragons have been working on a replacement for some time and hopefully they are almost to the point that they have made a decision. That decision would be a really hard one to make and they would need to have fall back options on the basis that the first choice might change his mind. Who they select and eventually sign up on whatever deal that best suits the club and the future coach is so important as I'm sure that any further failings will see the Joint Venture more than a laughing stock and there will be no chance of any resurrection.

Ryles I think is still umming and arring. I don't know if Hasler has even been approached. Flanno has said he hasn't been approached, Hornby is doing well as Demetriou's assistant and to me they will make the grand final so it's hard to see him leaving Souths just to be an assistant. Maybe he could be the one that the Board has in mind to go for. Dean Young, I'd leave out. I've seen a Ryles/Hornby/Young combination possibility which could work, but there are too many agendas in getting all three at once.

I just hope that the Board knows what they are doing and who they are after and will get. Don't create another mess for heavens sake.

Some really good insights.

Coaches can fail for many reasons. When I was looking at the stats, only two coaches seemed to have been in the groove for a long time. The rest of them are in the pack, and Hook was not bringing up the rear.

Rookie coach comes in with all his plans and ideas but some important players don’t buy in, injuries, suspensions, failures in recruiting, pretty much anything is possible and if you are bound for 5 years, you’ve got pay out issues and strife.

There’s just no guarantees in league, except maybe Bellamy and Bennett. Relatively speaking I think Bennett is better as he has travelled and taken a lot more risks.

Ciraldo has already proven the 5 year deal is shaky. He should be doing a bit better with that squad.

I read the moaning on from Crawley, Mary and Tallis etc, but they’ve gotta understand, you are where you are. You can’t turn back the clock and change anything. Their own experiences count for nothing. Mary is still whinging the club sent in helpers when he couldn’t cope. What else could they do but sack him?

If Ryles wants to micro manage everything, he’s going to fail as the job is too big and if he fails, be must be prepared to be hooked.

3 years is plenty.

Almost all NRL coaches know that sacking is inevitable.

I agree that Ryles team will be important. Shane Richardson would be a massive coup.
 

dannyt

Coach
Messages
14,491
After a little thought, if the club is going with a young coach i wouldnt mind if they went for Hornby.
He was a no nonsense type of player but also has the ability to give instructions.
I watched him talking to the Souths spine at halftime and was impressed with the way they taking his advice.
As a captain, he certainly had the ability to tell players what he thought of their actions. I think this one was directed at Mitch Rein, but I could be wrong. Irrespective, he wasn't happy about something done by the dummy half!
1684262789335.png
 

Illusion

Bench
Messages
3,260
In regards to Ryles, are you supporters 100% sold on him as a coach?
I only ask because the narrative about Bellamy staying on one more year at the Storm is because the players asked him to.
If Ryles is available, and it looks like he is, wouldn't the players he has actually been involved with in coaching for a fair few years (The Storm), be very open to having him there and not begging Bellamy to stay on?
I dont know anything about it, just my thoughts as to why Ryles doesn't seem to be wanted at The Storm. He did leave them for RU, then the Roosters.
Look he might turn out to be a great coach , but we really dont know , he is unknown also , as is Hornby , Young , Then again so was Fitzzy from the Sharks and he is doing good ........ Anyway who ever gets it , as long as the board and the rest of them stay out of it , they need full control .........
 

Illusion

Bench
Messages
3,260
After a little thought, if the club is going with a young coach i wouldnt mind if they went for Hornby.
He was a no nonsense type of player but also has the ability to give instructions.
I watched him talking to the Souths spine at halftime and was impressed with the way they taking his advice.
Im leaning that way also , if its a Rookie , Id go with Hornby , So what makes Ryles any better , neither have coached on their own ....... ?
 

dannyt

Coach
Messages
14,491
Im leaning that way also , if its a Rookie , Id go with Hornby , So what makes Ryles any better , neither have coached on their own ....... ?
Fair points. I suppose Ryles has the advantage of an apprenticeship with successful people such as Bellamy, Eddie Jones, and Robinson. He seems to have served a better apprenticeship than Hornby, who went straight to our coaching staff under some dud coaches before finally finding some success at Souths. I have no idea whether that makes Ryles a better option.
 

rasaint

Juniors
Messages
1,118
My opinion of why coaches fail?

80% They don’t have the top line players. Yes, maybe 20% personality type dimensions. Great players make great coaches. Griffin had an ordinary roster. That’s it.

We had a top pack of forwards in 2018. James Graham, Tariq, JDB, Frizzel, Leeson Au Mau, to name a few. International or SOO players.We would have won comp bar serious injuries to Widdop and Tariq in Broncos thrashing semi. The next week their loss weakened us just enough to lose to South’s in a nail biter. Mary was coach.

All the great coaches modern times Bennett, Cleary, Maguire, Hasler (examples) tanked when injuries depleted and / or rosters stuck with ordinary players. Cleary had a sub 50% win ratio until he arrived for the second time to the rich and talented panther roster.

If Ryles or who ever have the $$$ to buy in top class into our roster then they will be a success. No third party top ups etc then it’s same old same old. BTW Ciraldo will start winning when he gets a class half back, injuries to class players even out and more of the class troops keep arriving next year.
 

since77

Juniors
Messages
2,490
Griffin had an ordinary roster. That’s it.
I hate this excuse. Bennett has taken an ordinary roster mostly made up of other team’s castoffs and made it competitive on a weekly basis. An improving Warriors outfit has a bog average roster. Meanwhile Griffin wouldn’t even make full use of his ordinary roster, continually omitting players with more talent and creativity and upside than the favourites he stuck with week in, week out. And then he tied the team down with “game plans” that were obsolete 20 years ago.
Of course playing talent matters. But if you’ve got an idiot for a coach then you’re toast in modern footy. And Griffin proved over two and a half years he was a bigger problem than our roster.
 

Slippery Morris

First Grade
Messages
7,895
Gould has stated many times that Saints have a good roster and is suprised where they are. I tend to agree. Their issue is attitude and getting some hard edged forwards. If Ben Hunt leaves I would invest in a great hooker to complement Liddle.

Ryles surely would be the best option of the 3 ex Dragons as he has been away from the club much longer than the others and better still involved in clubs that won a GF. The others have been in clubs that made finals. He has the best experience by a mile. Hornby and Young has great insight into the juniors as they were involved in the junior squads and saw them come through only for Hook to damage them mentally. If they get one of them 2 as an assistant that will be a huge coup for me as well.

Saints should offer Ryles 5 years but simply put in performance clauses. Too easy. Doesn't have to be to hard core but obviously if they are looking like spoon contenders 3 years into his contract then off you go. If they can see improvements then he has nothing to worry about. Hook left the bar so low it won't be hard where as if Hook left them in the 8 then it would be a bigger challenge but improving them from 16th. If you have the club make finals 2 years in to his contract give him a slight increase in pay. If they make a GF a huge increase in pay as I am sure he will be head hunted by the Storm when Bellamy goes. No better incentive than more cash for success as the club will make more anyway if successful and they won't feel it. If they make a GF the fans will be throwing their money at them and the grounds will be packed of Saints fans not other fans like what we are getting used to.

Brown was part of the build in the Warriors. Look at them now. He made some great recruitment options. He brought back Shan Johnson. He also rebuilt Newcastle after Bennett left bringing in Ponga and Pearce. The 2010 team that won the GF chock full of Saints Juniors thanks to Browny. The team 1-7 had 5 out of 7 juniors apart from Darius and Soward. Brown is probably going to be the best appointment for Saints if they get him.
 

Inisai Toga

Juniors
Messages
1,580
My opinion of why coaches fail?

80% They don’t have the top line players. Yes, maybe 20% personality type dimensions. Great players make great coaches. Griffin had an ordinary roster. That’s it.

We had a top pack of forwards in 2018. James Graham, Tariq, JDB, Frizzel, Leeson Au Mau, to name a few. International or SOO players.We would have won comp bar serious injuries to Widdop and Tariq in Broncos thrashing semi. The next week their loss weakened us just enough to lose to South’s in a nail biter. Mary was coach.

All the great coaches modern times Bennett, Cleary, Maguire, Hasler (examples) tanked when injuries depleted and / or rosters stuck with ordinary players. Cleary had a sub 50% win ratio until he arrived for the second time to the rich and talented panther roster.

If Ryles or who ever have the $$$ to buy in top class into our roster then they will be a success. No third party top ups etc then it’s same old same old. BTW Ciraldo will start winning when he gets a class half back, injuries to class players even out and more of the class troops keep arriving next year.
Agree with alot of what you put forward here apart from your 2018 assessment. Never have won that comp imo.. An “ok” pack not really dominating games evident by the number of losses we had limping into the Semis.; we should have recognised this then and recruited hard then. That pack’s form was spasmodic and on the wain imo; we were satisfied - wrong assessment by our recruitment team!
 

Illusion

Bench
Messages
3,260
Fair points. I suppose Ryles has the advantage of an apprenticeship with successful people such as Bellamy, Eddie Jones, and Robinson. He seems to have served a better apprenticeship than Hornby, who went straight to our coaching staff under some dud coaches before finally finding some success at Souths. I have no idea whether that makes Ryles a better option.
Time will tell .......
 

Dragonslayer

First Grade
Messages
7,815
From the members meeting last night, Webb stated that an announcement on the new hc is about 3-4 weeks away, maybe longer, as they are still in the process of 'interviewing' applicants.
I think this was just a divergence to take the heat out of the Griffin sacking and allow Carr some breathing space to coach without so much media scrutiny.
As it stands, Ryles you could almost say is done and dusted and they are still negotiating the finite details.

If course we play the Roosters on Friday night, so no announcement before then for sure

What is the length of contract, I'm hoping for a 3x2 as a good start.

Ryles would also need time to take a look at our roster and our current ac's and other coaches.

There's also when to start. Would that be afresh for 2024 or say after SOO or even after our next bye round.

There's still a lot to go through but my gut feeling is we are very close.
 

Illusion

Bench
Messages
3,260
From the members meeting last night, Webb stated that an announcement on the new hc is about 3-4 weeks away, maybe longer, as they are still in the process of 'interviewing' applicants.
I think this was just a divergence to take the heat out of the Griffin sacking and allow Carr some breathing space to coach without so much media scrutiny.
As it stands, Ryles you could almost say is done and dusted and they are still negotiating the finite details.

If course we play the Roosters on Friday night, so no announcement before then for sure

What is the length of contract, I'm hoping for a 3x2 as a good start.

Ryles would also need time to take a look at our roster and our current ac's and other coaches.

There's also when to start. Would that be afresh for 2024 or say after SOO or even after our next bye round.

There's still a lot to go through but my gut feeling is we are very close.
Again its all leaning that way , but this mob would not surprise me , with someone right out at left field gets the job ...... And its all been an Illusion .......
 
Messages
4,420
Gould has stated many times that Saints have a good roster and is suprised where they are. I tend to agree. Their issue is attitude and getting some hard edged forwards. If Ben Hunt leaves I would invest in a great hooker to complement Liddle.

I say we need a good organiser at half more than anyone. Do we need another hooker as Liddle can play full or almost full minutes. We only had half of Liddle's ability and impact under Griffin as he continually picked Mbye as his partner.
 
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