Coops cage fighting?

[Back O'Bourke Scorcher]

Beat me to it aqua!

 

[Black Forest Dragon]

I prefer Dragons' footy.

...much safer !

: )

 

[Collateral]

Please. The primary objective of rugby league and gridiron is not to maim and injure your opponent, in the vast majority of cases such behaviour is punished. I have seen these barbarous fights and they belong in a bygone era of civilisation.

Really? My experience has been quiet different to yours then.

In league I was taught to try and hold a player up in the tackle & expose his ribs so someone could come in with the shoulder & try to put them out of the game.

In Gridiron you are taught little tricks like jamming your fingers beneath the helmet & into the throat of the other player at the snap to take them out of the play.

Union you are encouraged to stomp, maul & f**k up people in the rucks where no-one can see.

If you carry on with shit like that in bjj you will be looking for a new gym on a regular basis.

 

[DirtyHarry]

Really? My experience has been quiet different to yours then.

In league I was taught to try and hold a player up in the tackle & expose his ribs so someone could come in with the shoulder & try to put them out of the game.

In Gridiron you are taught little tricks like jamming your fingers beneath the helmet & into the throat of the other player at the snap to take them out of the play.

Union you are encouraged to stomp, maul & f**k up people in the rucks where no-one can see.

If you carry on with shit like that in bjj you will be looking for a new gym on a regular basis.

You are confusing the object of a particular sport with the underhanded tactics employed to win.

 

[Collateral]

You are confusing the object of a particular sport with the underhanded tactics employed to win.

The object of martial arts is not to maim your opponents.

 

[Godz Illa]

Well it's a collision sport so grubby shit will occasionally happen - in the margins of the game. Most of that stuff, if caught, is penalised. Bit different to the cage fighting equation of: knee to the face = win.

 

[ebbedfred]

I've been following MMA for about 15 years and love it. I've spent most of those 15 years defending the safety of the sport and realised it is a waste of time to some people.

Some people do not understand the sport, they simply see the brutality and don't appreciate the technical side of the sport, but there are millions of people who would say Rugby League is a brutal game simply because they don't understand it

There are others who do give it a chance, and don't like it, that is fine, they are entitled to their opinion. It does not make their opinion correct, as neither is my opinion, but everyone can (and will) make their own mind up. I don't expect these people to ever change their mind, as they don't want to, and that's ok, they simply do not have to watch it.

 

[TruSaint]

I hear what you say about Pride Tru Saint. I am a huge fan of the UFC but I was never a huge fan of Pride. Pride had few rules ie stomping on downed opponents etc was ok. The UFC and most organisations nowadays have alot of rules. People that aren't familiar with the sport believe it is just a slug fest in a cage with no rules which could not be further from the truth.

In 2003, HBO did a documentary on the life of Mark Kerr.. dont know if you have seen it, if you havent its a must. It highlights your points on rules ( or lack there of ), and goes behind the scenes of this young mans life in the early dark days. Injections, pain killers etc.

I think the movie / docco is called " Smashing Machine". It is a masterpiece. It humanises and puts perspective on the events in those late 90's and early 2000's.

Quote from one of the fighters re Kerr...

Bas Rutten states clearly during the documentary that due to Kerr's ability to end fights quickly, the tournament directors were removing all of Kerr's 'weapons' (notably head-butts and knees to the head of a grounded opponent) in an attempt to make the fights last longer for television and crowd satisfaction; inferring that no fighter could compete with Kerr in a real 'no holds barred' fight.

 

[Godz Illa]

Some people do not understand the sport, they simply see the brutality and don't appreciate the technical side of the sport, but there are millions of people who would say Rugby League is a brutal game simply because they don't understand it

"The technical side" is such a convenient argument. There's a technical side to dog fighting too. Doesn't change the fact that it's a blood sport and a disgrace to humanity

 

[ebbedfred]

"The technical side" is such a convenient argument. There's a technical side to dog fighting too. Doesn't change the fact that it's a blood sport and a disgrace to humanity

It happens to be true, take away all the punches, kicks, elbows etc that you find "brutal", and it is very technical, do you not think Jiu Jitsu is technical, or Judo?

Thankyou for proving my point though, some people just don't want to change their mind. I'm not going to try and change your mind, don't waste your time trying to change mine.

 

[God-King Dean]

Just don't touch the face.

 

[Back O'Bourke Scorcher]

In 2003, HBO did a documentary on the life of Mark Kerr.. dont know if you have seen it, if you havent its a must. It highlights your points on rules ( or lack there of ), and goes behind the scenes of this young mans life in the early dark days. Injections, pain killers etc.

I think the movie / docco is called " Smashing Machine". It is a masterpiece. It humanises and puts perspective on the events in those late 90's and early 2000's.

Quote from one of the fighters re Kerr...

Bas Rutten states clearly during the documentary that due to Kerr's ability to end fights quickly, the tournament directors were removing all of Kerr's 'weapons' (notably head-butts and knees to the head of a grounded opponent) in an attempt to make the fights last longer for television and crowd satisfaction; inferring that no fighter could compete with Kerr in a real 'no holds barred' fight.

I have seen it. I agree it is quite alarming. There was another doco around that time that was similar to the Smashing Machine. I can't recall it's name. I am glad Pride is no longer around. It wasn't just the rules, alot of guys that were suspected of using performance enhancement ElephantJuice went over to Pride as the testing was basically non existent compared to that in the UFC. There were freakshow fights with abnormally large human beings, Mismatched fights etc. It was bad advertisement for the sport. I enjoy watching technical striking and submissions. I am not a fan of head butts and stomping etc

 

[Back O'Bourke Scorcher]

Someone is having fun with the auto correct (elephant juice) . Good one!

 

[ebbedfred]

I have seen it. I agree it is quite alarming. There was another doco around that time that was similar to the Smashing Machine. I can't recall it's name. I am glad Pride is no longer around. It wasn't just the rules, alot of guys that were suspected of using performance enhancement ElephantJuice went over to Pride as the testing was basically non existent compared to that in the UFC. There were freakshow fights with abnormally large human beings, Mismatched fights etc. It was bad advertisement for the sport. I enjoy watching technical striking and submissions. I am not a fan of head butts and stomping etc

I'm the same. I think back to the early UFC fights and early Pride fights, which had small guys taking on huge guys, stomping, punching in the nuts (Joe Son) etc and I don't like that stuff, was not good for the "sport" at the time and would have killed it until Zuffa came along and regulated it with more rules, weight classes etc. It is so much better now than it was back then. I can't even watch the early UFC stuff now.

 

[Back O'Bourke Scorcher]

Joe Son Lol!! Kimo's zen teacher. ...
I agree the early stuff is comical. As a sideline look Joe Son up on wiki. So much for being a devout Christian!
Your tip for Weidman v Silva II?

 

[Godz Illa]

It happens to be true, take away all the punches, kicks, elbows etc that you find "brutal", and it is very technical, do you not think Jiu Jitsu is technical, or Judo?

I agree it's technical. Great. Am I meant to appreciate the beauty of the technical aspects of inflicting physical pain? An electric chair is quite an elaborate, technical device also

 

[ebbedfred]

Your tip for Weidman v Silva II?

I had a feeling Weidman would win the first fight, but never thought he'd KO Anderson. In saying that, the only reason he did KO him is that Anderson got sloppy, but if you watch it, the reason Weidman got him was because instead of throwing a simple one two punch, he followed that up with a backhand that threw Anderson off and instead of rolling with the next punch, he leaned straight into a left hook.

As far as the rematch goes I think the same I thought about the first fight before it happened, if Weidman can take Anderson down I think he can win by either submission or decision, but if on the feet I think Anderson will win, he looked so much faster until he got clipped. The only time (other than the Weidman loss) than Anderson has looked in trouble was on his back against Travis Lutter, Dan Henderson and Chael Sonnen, I still think that is the best chance to beat him. But after all that, my pick is still Silva, he is a freak, one in a billion, and the best fighter I've seen, greater than Fedor....but I'll still be going for Weidman!

 

[ebbedfred]

I agree it's technical. Great. Am I meant to appreciate the beauty of the technical aspects of inflicting physical pain? An electric chair is quite an elaborate, technical device also

So we agree it's technical, which means you are prob one of the people who understands it but just doesn't like it. So be it, I'm not going to belittle your argument, you are entitled to your opinion, as I said before, you just have to not watch it. Why do you need to convince me of how brutal it is? If an AFL fan tried to convince you Rugby League was way too brutal and for neanderthals, would you stop watching? Woud you care what they thought? Can't I just have my opinion, even if you think it's wrong?

My knowledge of electric chairs is not up to par, but always figured they were pretty simple devices.

 

[TruSaint]

So we agree it's technical, which means you are prob one of the people who understands it but just doesn't like it. So be it, I'm not going to belittle your argument, you are entitled to your opinion, as I said before, you just have to not watch it. Why do you need to convince me of how brutal it is? If an AFL fan tried to convince you Rugby League was way too brutal and for neanderthals, would you stop watching? Woud you care what they thought? Can't I just have my opinion, even if you think it's wrong?

My knowledge of electric chairs is not up to par, but always figured they were pretty simple devices.

Fred, i dont believe Godz is trying to change your opinion ( hope i am not speaking out of line ), Godz is more than capable of vicing his opinion, as are you. Fact is ... it is a devisive sport. Its grown faster than a bush fire, and is now mainstream. In the old days ( showing my age ), you had to get tapes on the streets... yes tapes boys, no CD's or USB ports.

As i said earlier, the footage from Pride 1-5 made me ill. It was nothing more than a bloodfest... it has changed but at the end of the day it is one brutal visual.

Its also the by product of what comes from success of the MMA, such as video games etc. Yes, they exist everywhere, Black Ops, and others, but it does desensitise young kids as to the impact of a hit to head, or a choke hold or a ground and pound.

Dialogue is healthy on these issues.

 

[Back O'Bourke Scorcher]

I got a feeling Silva won't clown around this time.....
I reckon Silva will catch him this time. I reckon he will retire straight after too. I bet he is workin OT on his takedown defence as we speak!