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Difference for NZ in winning union and league World Cups

maccattack

Juniors
Messages
1,250
The only contest between the AB's and the Kangaroos where the AB's win is the most pies at lunch competition.

Get a grip.
 

shiznit

Coach
Messages
14,793
The only contest between the AB's and the Kangaroos where the AB's win is the most pies at lunch competition.

Get a grip.
:lol:

I think the Kangaroos need to actually be the best in RL before they start looking at other sports...

But I like your ambition... If they manage to win the RLWC... They can take that step up to the pie eating world...

I hear an ex-kangaroo captain is coming out of retirement to lead you to glory...

154380-pie-eating.jpg
 

Rod

Bench
Messages
3,528
SBW wouldn't have walked into the centres for Australia or QLD, until possibly very recently when we're (the kangas) suddenly suffering out wide due to a lot of contributing factors (hodges injured and suddenly old, folau left, Will hoppa went to be a mormon, yow yeh broke his leg in half, ferguson and duges went insane, etc etc etc).
Hodges and Inglis had the centre pairing more locked than Nonu and Smith had the AB centre pairing, there's no way it would have been split up for sbw wandering in (remembering this is a hypothetical where sbw is eligible for aus and can't play as a forward).

He would have been picked as a forward on any team in league and not for the all blacks, but that's because his natural position is edge forward in league, and I do understand that forwards in rugby have a fairly specialised position totally different from forwards in league (I did play as a forward in union for 15 years btw, those saying I know nothing about the code lol).
So yeah the fact SBW could get on the all blacks at all, with Thorn lol, doesn't bode well for the all blacks claim to be the best sporting team in the world. They don't even have SBW's position, or Thorns, but they moseyed in like royalty. Sbw fair enough is a stand out freak in the nrl, but thorn is a joke.

You can switch it around and ask what would happen if JT, Inglis, Hayne, Slater and co were eligible for the all blacks? Established pairings be damned, they'd kick the doors down, and who knows how many more league players would, no one could have guessed thorn, but it happened, so who knows, Keith Galloway and Dean Young might kick the doors down. I'm struggling to think of any other players as shit as thorn.

It seems if you've played league at all you're good enough to be an international rugby player. If you're half decent at league you immediately become a star international rugby player. Folau is turning into the Lebron of union as we speak(playing on the cavs, but yeah), when he was never the best on an NRL club team, let alone the best in the NRL.

That is a whole lot of words for no point. Thorne was an awesome league player who played Origins and internationals and became an awesome union player. SBW is an awesome league player who'd walk into any league side in the world including the Kangaroos, and also became a bloody good rugby player. I'm not sure what your point about him playing in the centres for the Kangaroos has to do with anything either.

Ditto Folau, an Origin and international player at 18 years of age in league, and becoming equally as dangerous on the world rugby stage. Nothing to see in terms of valid code comparison with any of your examples.

The only way you'd have a point is if you can name average NRL first graders who constantly go to union and carve up. As it stands I can't think of any. Will Chambers is a useful NRL centre and it's not like he barged his way into the Wallabies.

Also enjoying these random Kangaroos > All Blacks calls with no reasoning or evidence guys, keep the lol's coming.
 

vvvrulz

Coach
Messages
13,542
Also enjoying these random Kangaroos > All Blacks calls with no reasoning or evidence guys, keep the lol's coming.

Any attempted comparison between the Kangaroos and the All Blacks is farcical.

Comparing their dominance of a sport, their aura, their legacy... maybe... but even that's a bit of stretch because International RL and RU are wildly different in terms of global reach, importance and number of games played.
 

ltd2001

Juniors
Messages
9
What does that have to do with the Kangaroos? The discussion he has been focused on how much better the Wallabies would be if there was a united code?

To say "they wouldn't be good because they can't scrum or lineout"...

???

And you accuse me of being a supremacist. If the likes of Inglis and haybe had of played RU, they'd have learned to play like a RU player.



And a hell of a lot more failure. The Warriors have been widely regarded as an under-performing tea,



Which if you're trying to assert that's a poor reflection of RL in Australia, is a weaker assertion about RU worldwide, that a tiny pool of NZ can beat the world.



And?



No, that's not it at all. This is the conclusion an idiot makes when trying to think for himself.

The difference in intuition which is why...



Yup, he is an outstanding player at second row in RL.

But that's not reflective of anything.

Rogers, Tuiqri, Sailor and Farrell were all better players at RL than Jason Robinson, yet JR became the better of all of them at RU. What it says is certain players have differing ceilings.

What this relates to at this topic, is that no where in the world of RU does anyone have the ceiling of Hayne or Inglis.

We've see the RUWC down here twice in the last 10 years.

There is more talent in the NRL than there is in the entire world of RU. Teams like Argentina and Ireland, with absolutely pedestrian centre partnerships win games, Arg coming top 4 in 2007. The Wallabies with an eternally pissweak forward pack are another.

That is why NZ can beat them all the time, not because the All Blacks have world leading talent to classify them the 'most dominant team in the world', but because every other team in the world is devoid of talent.

More talent in the nrl than all of rugby:crazy:, So the kiwis are all Nrl players aren't they? yet name me one player that would take any of the all blacks spot.
Lets start with the backs,um anit no one got the class to walk into the abs buddy.Johnson has the vision of a mole and would be lost with defence in his face and havng to direct 9 plus phases in a row at number 10,he showed against the poms he couldn't run an attacking play,the kiwi centres are average,including shaun Kenny dowall,if sbw is on the bench for the abs do you really think he,goodwin etc are gona make the team at centre,none of the kiwi centres would even get a super rugby contract yet are starting centres for two of the top nrl teams:sarcasm:.Some talent pool.Manu wouldn't cut it,Rts could,but hes a union throw away anyway,only bein playing league a few years has got more class than any nrl winger,and hed be back up at full back at most.kiwi fullbacks um na anit got the skills to make it in union at fullback.So no kiwi backs from the nrl would make the cut in the abs.
Lets look at the forwards,what kiwi forward will play in the front row??None.Locks??none,sbw will make it as a back,jwh and Mannering with a few years could be a handy 6,7,8 but would never come close to our loose forwards, so out of this great talent pool of the nrl theres nothing that could really offer the abs anything..you have no idea of nz rugby depth,we dam lost 3 players this year that would of made better league backs than any of our(kiwis)current squad,in hosea gear,richard kahui and renee ranger.get out of here with that bullshit.
No doubt that new Zealand and aussie produce the best players in both codes but the all blacks never have and never will need league players,aussies or kiwis its as simple as that
 

reanimate

Bench
Messages
3,829
You Union lovers have been saying the exact same thing since forever, that League players would never make it in such-and-such a position, or that Richie-Rich McHyphenated name is far and away better than any League player that could play in his position, yet time and time again, blokes like this switch over and dominate in Union:

672915-brad-thorn.jpg
 
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ltd2001

Juniors
Messages
9
That's like saying Greg Inglis isn't considered good enough for the Kangaroos or Queensland because it's wiser to play Slater at fullback and GI in the centres.

Smith and Nonu have a record breaking centre partnership. And given the All Blacks conservative selection policy it's no surprise SBW was thought of as more useful coming off the bench onto the wing.

Only a union troll could make out that a league convert playing out of position on the wing for the world's greatest rugby team is a strike against him. He brings that much to the team that they'll give him a bench spot to play a few minutes on the wing :sarcasm:

And of course he'd walk into any league team in the world, he's a league player....

Was not saying its a strike against him at all,just trying to show nz talent pool is very good,Richard kahui was also playing on the wing out of postion too,but was still considered better than sbw on the wing and at centre no biggie,i prefer watching sbw play league tbh hes better suited to it,but the whole G.I slater thing is different,they still playing both of them are they not??which was not the case with sbw,he was left on the bench so players that were considered better could start,with g.i slater thing they played both,wasnt like they left one out.Inglis is better at centre don't you think?They kept calling him the best player in the game this year,but yet he failed to have that much of an impact when it counted,he doesn't get involed enuff for me to earn that title,if he was the player of the year then what were players like lions/sbw or cherry evans then,they all had a greater impact on important games than G.I.
 

ltd2001

Juniors
Messages
9
You Union lovers have been saying the exact same thing since forever, that League players would never make it in such-and-such a position, or that Richie-Rich McHyphenated name is far and away better than any League player that could play in his position, yet time and time again, blokes like this switch over and dominate in Union:

Is that the only one you got lol,union lovers never say shit,its one eye league players that always talk shit about union,most union fans I know have no interest in debating the two codes,or care about league,there better left alone.Brad thron is a beast in both codes,with respect in both,but once he made it in the all blacks most one eye league fans rubbish him as a league player to justify there point of view of league players being better,but facts say other wise,after 4 years in union at the age of 30 he walked back into the nrl without missing a beat and made origin,union fans respect him for what he is regardless that he come from league,he had good morals/work ethic and was a good influence on the younger players.He did the black jersey proud don't give to shits if he came from netball soccer or cricket
 

Dark Chook

Juniors
Messages
69
Can somebody translate these posts please? I don't speak kiwi! ;)

Certainly,

the NZ ALL BLACKS are recognised by sport historians & journalists world wide as the most successful team in the history of sport

Brad Thorne is one of the most successful sportsman ever to play with the oval ball & has accomplished more than any other player in terms of titles & trophies won in the teams he participated

simple really:cool:
 

RHCP

Bench
Messages
4,784
There's a reason that only outside backs seem to be able to make the switch seamlessly and that modern Union has always targetted the Tuqiri's and Sailor's rather than the Webcke's and Fifita's. There's entirely different set of skills required for Union/League forwards and to a lesser extent playmakers, Brad Thorn is the exception rather than the rule.
 
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ParraEelsNRL

Referee
Messages
27,694
Certainly,

the NZ ALL BLACKS are recognised by sport historians & journalists world wide as the most successful team in the history of sport

Brad Thorne is one of the most successful sportsman ever to play with the oval ball & has accomplished more than any other player in terms of titles & trophies won in the teams he participated

simple really:cool:

Don't know about that, what about the greats of ST George who won multiple titles, rep for Aus in tests, WC's, and in some cases, some had played plenty of test union beforehand?
 

Kurt Angle

First Grade
Messages
9,658
Talk about going full genius

More talent in the nrl than all of rugby:crazy:, So the kiwis are all Nrl
players aren't they? yet name me one player that would take any of the all blacks spot.

When are the all blacks the entrie world of RU?

I'm talking abuot spastics like D'Arcy, Ashley-Cooper, De Villiers. Twelvetrees... the pedestrian spastics who make up the elite of 'global game'

Lets start with the backs,um anit no one got the class to walk into the abs buddy.Johnson has the vision of a mole and would be lost with defence in his face and havng to direct 9 plus phases in a row at number 10,

9 phases... what 9 phases of pick and drive is complex is it? it's less complex than a standard RL hit up.

he showed against the poms he couldn't run an attacking play,the kiwi centres are average,including shaun Kenny dowall,if sbw is on the bench for the abs do you really think he,goodwin etc are gona make the team at centre,none of the kiwi centres would even get a super rugby contract yet are starting centres for two of the top nrl teams:sarcasm:.

Sure SBW wasn't a vital cog in 2011... however it was as clear as day he was a better centre than Nonu in 2012. What that says is he require done more year.

Then lets get to the rest, Watkins would be a revolution for England, Inglis kept out of the Wallabies? please. Inglis would dominate RU more than Folau is. Colin Best would be the number one player for Italy. hell, most of the Utaly RL side would be starters for the Italy RU side.

I'm not denying the All Blacks are the best the RU have to offer, but that's still not saying a lot.

Some talent pool.Manu wouldn't cut it,Rts could,but hes a union throw away anyway,only bein playing league a few years has got more class than any nrl winger,and hed be back up at full back at most.

RTS vs Hayne as a winger ehh?

kiwi fullbacks um na anit got the skills to make it in union at fullback.So no kiwi backs from the nrl would make the cut in the abs.

Lets look at the forwards,what kiwi forward will play in the front row??None.Locks??

Erhh hello... Brad Thorne has already made the team as lock.

none,sbw will make it as a back,jwh and Mannering with a few years could be a handy 6,7,8 but would never come close to our loose forwards, so out of this great talent pool of the nrl theres nothing that could really offer the abs anything..

Again, why the pants down around the ankles and wanking furiously about the All Blacks in this argument. I said the entire world.

Every Burgess brother would fill the England RU loose forwards, Every touring kangaroo would make the Wallabies.

That said, not a single all black forward could play rep RL..

you have no idea of nz rugby depth,we dam lost 3 players this year that would of made better league backs than any of our(kiwis)current squad,in hosea gear,richard kahui and renee ranger.get out of here with that bullshit.

??

They aren't class athletes.

This is the same team that had leon mcDonald play dozens of tests, and he wouldn't even make Parramatta. Mils Miluiana is another who is a crap athlete who wouldn't make NRL, and he's an All Black great.

The All Blacks are littered with small, slow atheles who can beat up on the Wallabies and other RU sides full of no hopers.. pfft...

No doubt that new Zealand and aussie produce the best players in both codes but the all blacks never have and never will need league players,aussies or kiwis its as simple as that

Of course they don't need... no other side in the world of RU produces any talent.

it's the same as the AFL wouldn' t need RL players.

Not because AFL are good, it's because they have no opposition. The AFL can put together a national side can be more dominant than the All Blacks, that's how the world of RU looks to the intelligent eye. One nationa that takes it serious, and the rest full of second and third rate athletes.

110 years of Scotland or Ireland never beating the All Blacks show that.
 

ltd2001

Juniors
Messages
9
Talk about going full genius



When are the all blacks the entrie world of RU?

I'm talking abuot spastics like D'Arcy, Ashley-Cooper, De Villiers. Twelvetrees... the pedestrian spastics who make up the elite of 'global game'



9 phases... what 9 phases of pick and drive is complex is it? it's less complex than a standard RL hit up.



Sure SBW wasn't a vital cog in 2011... however it was as clear as day he was a better centre than Nonu in 2012. What that says is he require done more year.

Then lets get to the rest, Watkins would be a revolution for England, Inglis kept out of the Wallabies? please. Inglis would dominate RU more than Folau is. Colin Best would be the number one player for Italy. hell, most of the Utaly RL side would be starters for the Italy RU side.

I'm not denying the All Blacks are the best the RU have to offer, but that's still not saying a lot.



RTS vs Hayne as a winger ehh?





Erhh hello... Brad Thorne has already made the team as lock.



Again, why the pants down around the ankles and wanking furiously about the All Blacks in this argument. I said the entire world.

Every Burgess brother would fill the England RU loose forwards, Every touring kangaroo would make the Wallabies.

That said, not a single all black forward could play rep RL..



??

They aren't class athletes.

This is the same team that had leon mcDonald play dozens of tests, and he wouldn't even make Parramatta. Mils Miluiana is another who is a crap athlete who wouldn't make NRL, and he's an All Black great.

The All Blacks are littered with small, slow atheles who can beat up on the Wallabies and other RU sides full of no hopers.. pfft...



Of course they don't need... no other side in the world of RU produces any talent.

it's the same as the AFL wouldn' t need RL players.

Not because AFL are good, it's because they have no opposition. The AFL can put together a national side can be more dominant than the All Blacks, that's how the world of RU looks to the intelligent eye. One nationa that takes it serious, and the rest full of second and third rate athletes.

110 years of Scotland or Ireland never beating the All Blacks show that.

I was comparing the current all blacks and current kiwis team,most of the kiwis backs at this world cup are average players,none would knock out any of the abs starting line up simple,yet these average backs have carried us to a final.And the same average backs esp the kiwi centres goodwin etc can make the starting line up of the top teams in the nrl do they not.Goodwin,kenny dowall aren't in the same level as none of our top backs that's a fact,hosea gear,richard kahui and rene ranger just 3 class backs to leave nz rugby this year that would of made top league players

Rugby forwards couldn't make it into national league teams lol really,wake mate.

Don't ya know jwh is looking at returning to the game that made him the player he is lol

Just another kiwi/nrl star who is a union boy at heart and one of the best/hardest props in the nrl .
RTS is looking at coming back to rugby,the sad fact for league is regardless of how much fun the game is to watch its very limited,the game is to simple and becomes predictable and offers nothing outside of playing in the nrl or super league.

End of the day F all your crap on international rugby,a one eye league fan should be the last person to try pick holes in the game,have you looked at the state of the international league.

All that shit about league players walking into national teams you got no idea,burgess brothers a bit big for loose forwards,both codes have great talent but no union team could ever be made up of just league players pure and simple genius
 
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Rod

Bench
Messages
3,528
Yep, NZ has never beaten the US at basketball, so any achievements by the US suddenly don't matter and basketball isn't a global game....

Uruguay has never beaten Spain in football, that must mean Uruguay's World Cup win doesn't matter and football isn't a global game.....

The AB's have been so good for so long that they are yet to lose to a couple of teams and this means their ludicrous win record somehow now counts against them.

Spastic logic :lol:.
 

Kurt Angle

First Grade
Messages
9,658
I was comparing the current all blacks and current kiwis team,most of the kiwis backs at this world cup are average players,none would knock out any of the abs starting line up simple,yet these average backs have carried us to a final.

That's not cause and effect dopey. As i said, you're citing logical fallacy.

You're trying to enter a battle of wits, yet you're unarmed.

I agree these centres have carried NZ to the final, because of the lack of global spread of RL.

However, these same NZ RL centres, if the Kiwis were to enter as a seperate RU team at the world cup, would also carry them to the semi finals.

They are a better centre partnership than what every team bar NZ and South Africa have. Rob Horne and AAC? There are people who Parra stick in the wenty team better than the number 4 side in the world.

FACT: SBW was a better centre than Nonu in 2012.

FACT: SKD, Matai, Goodwin, Inu, et. al are better centres at RL than SBW

And the same average backs esp the kiwi centres goodwin etc can make the starting line up of the top teams in the nrl do they not.Goodwin,kenny dowall aren't in the same level as none of our top backs that's a fact,hosea gear,richard kahui and rene ranger just 3 class backs to leave nz rugby this year that would of made top league players

No they're not, utter flight of fancy. gear is a hack, Ranger is a hack, they are both about Phil Howlett's capability... the better of the Howlett brothers.

Rugby forwards couldn't make it into national league teams lol really,wake mate.

I have

Where do Crockett, Hore, Faumuina, Romano or Whitelock, even play? They aren't even in the propr condition to stay on their feet after a set of 6 in defence. Hell, Crocket and Fauminia are REALLY dumb, they'd be too stupid to even figure out how to play the ball.

Luatua,maybe, McCaw is too soft to do a hit up and I'd say Read is also too soft to last the game doing hit ups. They are known for piling in a static ruck.. basically what they can accomplish is being 3rd man in a tackle.

Don't ya know jwh is looking at returning to the game that made him the player he is lol

Did you know some of us know he's not... lol... and you've just been sprung spitting bullshit... lol.

Remember battle of wits.. unarmed.. that's you.

Just another kiwi/nrl star who is a union boy at heart and one of the best/hardest props in the nrl .

RTS is looking at coming back to rugby,

more lulz.. no he isn't

the sad fact for league is regardless of how much fun the game is to watch its very limited,the game is to simple and becomes predictable

The game is more open than RU. There is nothing diverse about collpasing scrums and kicking penalties every game, and that's 95% of all RU time in play.

and offers nothing outside of playing in the nrl or super league.

It offers being able to go home to friends and family either the same night, or the night after.

Play shitty 15 or whatever, flying from desolate shithole, to desolate shithole like Johannesburg, to Dunedin, looking for a crowd, playing in 3/4 empty stadiums, locked in hotel rooms and playing for a tiny pay cheque to fulfil a TV deal of 3 tiny markets, that combined is less than 1/3 of the NRL.

End of the day F all your crap on international rugby,a one eye league fan should be the last person to try pick holes in the game,have you looked at the state of the international league.

Erhh, are you truly that dense? Not only are you on a RL board, you're on the Rugby League WORLD CUP forum, in the midst of the most successful RL world cup of all time.

if this is the state of our international game in 2013, it's actually looking quite healthy.

All that shit about league players walking into national teams you got no idea,burgess brothers a bit big for loose forwards,both codes have great talent but no union team could ever be made up of just league players pure and simple genius

FACT: The kangaroos would beat the Wallabies, and claim every spot within 12 months of RU training

Everyone rah-rah wanks lyrical about Folau, the entire kangaroos backline position would have a player SUPERIOR to Folau.
 

Kurt Angle

First Grade
Messages
9,658
Yep, NZ has never beaten the US at basketball, so any achievements by the US suddenly don't matter and basketball isn't a global game....

Uruguay has never beaten Spain in football, that must mean Uruguay's World Cup win doesn't matter and football isn't a global game.....

Spastic logic :lol:.

No, spastic reasoning.

NZ isn't a powerhouse in basketball.

teams like Spain, Argentina, France, Russia are, and the U.S. has lost to them.

Ireland and Scotland are eternal powerhouses. if you cite they aren't, then RU is a sport of 3-4 powerhouses.

The AB's have been so good for so long that they are yet to lose to a couple of teams and this means their ludicrous win record somehow now counts against them.

Erhh it's not a case they have lost to these select few, they have only every lost to S.A, Australia, England, France, Wales and the Lions.

They've lost 108 games, and 75 of them are either Australia or S.A. No one beats the All Blacks because no one else takes the game serious.

And losing to Australia at R.U ... :lol: :lol: That's like losing to Samoa at soccer.
 
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