Do mergers and joint-ventures work?

[TheFrog]

Take Souths as a prime example, a club on the edge in the 70's, 80's and 90's who struggled compared to today a powerhouse.

They are an up and down side these days, which I suppose is better than down and down as it was in previous decades. They got lucky with a couple of journeymen in Cook and Walker. And don't the refs just love 'em.

 

[Mr Spock!]

They are an up and down side these days, which I suppose is better than down and down as it was in previous decades. They got lucky with a couple of journeymen in Cook and Walker. And don't the refs just love 'em.

Doing better than shithouse teams like Penrith.....

 

[TheFrog]

Mergers only "work" when they are takeovers. St.George took over Illawarra and Balmain originally took over Wests but that has turned around now as the Magpies have all the money.

While St George did take over Illawarra who were in no position to continue, Wests Tigers were a merge of more or less equals. Neither would have survived as a standalone. The Tiger was seen as more marketable, while Wests covered a far greater area. Balmain Rugby League Club pretty much no longer exists, certainly not as an entity that could support 50% of an NRL club, the only reason the Tigers mascot is retained is its marketability.

 

[Mr Spock!]

So really half of each of the joint ventures died.

Illawarra
Norths
Balmain

 

[unforgiven]

There’s plenty to do in Newy. It’s always funny seeing this argument coming from people living in Sydney. I’ve seen this argument made about Melbourne, Brisbane, Newcastle, Canberra and yet all of those places are far better than Sydney. Place is a goddamn dump but whatever makes you feel better about your shitty crowds.

I'm from the Hunter, there is nothing to do in Newcastle!

 

[Willow]

So really half of each of the joint ventures died.

Illawarra
Norths
Balmain

Illawarra still exist and have teams in various comps. And I understand they have a non-voting member on the STGI JV board, they just aren't a $ stakeholder in the JV. They are essentially there thanks to the intervention of WIN Corp. WIN own part of the Steelers Leagues Club, are the long term sponsors of the Wollongong home ground and have numerous connections in the area, and therefore have a vested interest in keeping the 'Illawarra' in 'St George Illawarra'.

Look, it all comes down to money.

Many years ago, an old taxi driver drove me to St George Leagues Club. We got talking and he said some wise words, "these guys are tightarses". Didn't think much of it at the time but he was correct. Saints will do a lot in offering existing resources, but getting them to part with cash is another thing entirely.

But then, St George pitched in over $6 million to the Illawarra Steelers in order to make the Joint Venture happen.

A few years ago there was a media carry-on about how Saints were financially strapped after they borrowed money from the NRL, but St George Leagues Club was profitable (despite the rhetoric).

The Club will argue that loaning money to Illawarra and then years later borrowing money from the NRL was good business. When WIN Corp came along, not only did they pay back the Illawarra debt to St George but they also took care of the NRL debt. St George ultimately maintained 50% of the JV, while getting back their money, while clearing their debt, and all the while the club was showing a profit.

Now, if only they'd spend some of those clever bucks on getting a good coach. But alas, the tightarse factor comes into play. While the Club recognises the St George name is a good money spinner, they also don't want to go nuts with trying to buy a premiership. The members of the board are safe in their positions. It's business, and the fans are treated like customers. That's probably for another discussion.

 

[Perth Red]

St George LC put $1.7million into the Dragons last season.

 

[macavity]

Are Sydney crowds poor because it is hard to get around or because there is so much to do?

Because you can’t have both...

 

[Billythekid]

I'm from the Hunter, there is nothing to do in Newcastle!

Unfortunately the hunter isn’t immune from people having stupid opinions.

 

[Perth Red]

Are Sydney crowds poor because it is hard to get around or because there is so much to do?

Because you can’t have both...

There’s a lot to do, but no one does them as you can’t get around,

 

[Front-Rower]

With a game to go, nearly 50 thousand Sydneysiders have been to a game so far this round. Yet only 30 thousand south east qlders/Brisbane residents showed up for a game between two sides within 90 mins of each other.

 

[macavity]

With a game to go, nearly 50 thousand Sydneysiders have been to a game so far this round. Yet only 30 thousand south east qlders/Brisbane residents showed up for a game between two sides within 90 mins of each other.

Seriously

 

[southwalesrabbitoh]

Generally not.

 

[carcharias]

I think where they probably f**ked up was they tried to join 2 clubs and somehow keep the old 2 in the name.
IMO I don’t look at the dragons and see Illawarra
Same for west’s tigers
Magpies are invisible

They should’ve completely rebranded them.

Also
Dragons should make the big call and just pack up and go south.
Look at the knights and support they have.
Wollongong is a completely different place to what it was with the Steelers.
Probably wear the Steelers jersey exclusively.

 

[Knuckle-dragger]

This was before my time but weren’t many of these clubs in a bad situations to begin with?

That is what they told us.

 

[Knuckle-dragger]

There are teams in all leagues around the world who have had little success but they always have hope that one day just one day they will be triumphant.

I understand what you are saying, For example, the Boston Red Sox, the Cleveland Cavaliers, etc, before they won their respective competitions. However, they were always single entities. 66% survival rate of mergers or joint adventurers, and then that 66% winning only two competitions is a failure (in my opinion, of course).

 

[Marlins]

In hindsight, if we could go back in time, a merge between St.George Dragons & Cronulla Sutherland Sharks, would have been the go. Leave the Illawarra Steelers to Wollongong.

Also a merge between Parramatta Eels & Western Suburbs Magpies. I probably would’ve dropped Balmain to Nsw Cup, or Relocate.

Keeping the Bears, and Relocating them to the Central Coast, while dropping manly, or relocation.

So my Nsw teams would’ve been -

Penrith/Or CRL Panthers
Western Sydney Eels
Canterbury Bankstown Bulldogs
South Sydney Rabbitohs
Sydney Roosters
St.Geroge Sutherland Dragons
Illawarra Steelers
Central Coast Bears
Newcastle Knights

 

[Front-Rower]

Seriously

Seriously what? What do you expect when you have 9 teams in the one geographical region?

 

[beave]

In hindsight, if we could go back in time, a merge between St.George Dragons & Cronulla Sutherland Sharks, would have been the go. Leave the Illawarra Steelers to Wollongong.

Also a merge between Parramatta Eels & Western Suburbs Magpies. I probably would’ve dropped Balmain to Nsw Cup, or Relocate.

Keeping the Bears, and Relocating them to the Central Coast, while dropping manly, or relocation.

So my Nsw teams would’ve been -

Penrith/Or CRL Panthers
Western Sydney Eels
Canterbury Bankstown Bulldogs
South Sydney Rabbitohs
Sydney Roosters
St.Geroge Sutherland Dragons
Illawarra Steelers
Central Coast Bears
Newcastle Knights

Do you understand what happened with the Bears?



And merging Cronulla and St George? I don’t know if you’ve lived in Sydney mate but it’s never going to happen.

 

[Scott Gourley's Lovechild]

I think where they probably f**ked up was they tried to join 2 clubs and somehow keep the old 2 in the name.
IMO I don’t look at the dragons and see Illawarra
Same for west’s tigers
Magpies are invisible

They should’ve completely rebranded them.

Also
Dragons should make the big call and just pack up and go south.
Look at the knights and support they have.
Wollongong is a completely different place to what it was with the Steelers.
Probably wear the Steelers jersey exclusively.