Do you want Brad Arthur as coach

[Eelementary]

Since we are talking about Parramatta lets actually use some meaningful and relevant data. I don't think it supports what you are suggesting at all.

The Chop and Change Era

2007 - 5th, 13 wins, 11 losses (Hagan)
2008 - 11th, 11 wins, 13 losses (Hagan)
2009 - 2nd, 12 wins, 11 losses, 1 draw (DA)
2010 - 12th, 10 wins, 14 losses (DA)
2011 - 14th, 6 wins, 17 losses, 1 draw (Bigface)
2012 - 16th, 6 wins, 18 losses (Bigface and Arthur)
2013 - 16th, 5 wins, 19 losses (Stuart)

63 wins, 103 losses, 2 draws - 37.5% win record.

The Pick and Stick Era (BA)

2014 - 10th, 12 wins, 12 losses
2015 - 12th, 9 wins, 15 losses
2016 - 14th, 13 wins, 11 losses*
2017 - 4th, 16 wins, 8 losses
2018 - 16th, 6 wins, 18 losses
2019 - 5th, 14 wins, 10 losses
2020 - 3rd, 12 wins, 4 losses

76 wins, 78 losses - 49.4% win record.

Key take homes

• Greater win percentage under pick and stick.
• Best three seasons (based on win percentages) under pick and stick.
• Four of the five best seasons (based on win percentages) under pick and stick.
• The only season from chop and change that is in the top 5 win percentages is actually the first one before any chopping and changing had occurred.
• Best two seasons are 2019 and 2020 (at the end of pick and stick).

* Ladder position impacted by salary cap

Interesting stats.

But what stands out to me is the period of 2014 through to 2016 - he saw consistent decline in ladder position finish for three consecutive years.

Most people would be in trouble at their jobs if their quality of work was proven to decline over a period of three consecutive years.

I know he didn't exactly have the best roster to begin with, but as good as having stability is, it's curious to me to see that he had a period where his team was performing worse, and worse, and we still persevered.

Of course, he guided us to a 4th place finish, and a 5th place finish, at other points, so he showed he can guide us to a decent ladder finish.

But I am starting to suspect that he suffers from "Brian Smith Syndrome" - he seems unable to get the team firing come Finals time.

 

[Kornstar]

According to Gaz’s stats


2014 - 10th, 12 wins, 12 losses
2015 - 12th, 9 wins, 15 losses
2016 - 14th, 13 wins, 11 losses*
2017 - 4th, 16 wins, 8 losses
2018 - 16th, 6 wins, 18 losses
2019 - 5th, 14 wins, 10 losses
2020 - 3rd, 12 wins, 4 losses

76 wins, 78 losses - 49.4% win record.

You reckon those stats deserves an extension? Did we get excited too early ?

To be honest, I’m not sure.

Does 14 through to the end of 16 count? The most incompetent board to ever exist completely f**ked him and the club over.

Since we started to get our shit together he's had one bad year.

I think I’d take Flanagan before Green. I heard Green is a merkin. At least the players liked Flanno.

Of course they liked Flanagan, he gave them drugs and extra money!

 

[Gary Gutful]

I think I’d take Flanagan before Green. I heard Green is a merkin. At least the players liked Flanno.

Fair point. Green is an angry little merkin. I rate him though.

Remember when Smith bulked us up one off season and Green came out onto the field looking like the little fat kid from Hey Dad? Good times.

 

[Kornstar]

Fair point. Green is an angry little merkin. I rate him though.

Remember when Smith bulked us up one off season and Green came out onto the field looking like the little fat kid from Hey Dad? Good times.

f**king great times!!

 

[Avenger]

Fair point. Green is an angry little merkin. I rate him though.

Remember when Smith bulked us up one off season and Green came out onto the field looking like the little fat kid from Hey Dad? Good times.

I remember. I think he did his ACL later in the season.

 

[Gary Gutful]

Interesting stats.

But what stands out to me is the period of 2014 through to 2016 - he saw consistent decline in ladder position finish for three consecutive years.

Most people would be in trouble at their jobs if their quality of work was proven to decline over a period of three consecutive years.

I know he didn't exactly have the best roster to begin with, but as good as having stability is, it's curious to me to see that he had a period where his team was performing worse, and worse, and we still persevered.

Of course, he guided us to a 4th place finish, and a 5th place finish, at other points, so he showed he can guide us to a decent ladder finish.

But I am starting to suspect that he suffers from "Brian Smith Syndrome" - he seems unable to get the team firing come Finals time.

Good points Eele.

In relation to 2014-2016 I think he probably got by because of how shit our front of house was. That really was ordinary and he was a rock during that period.

Now that we have sorted that out he should be judged more harshly on his results.

The B.Smith comparison is a good one. It seems to look that way. But I guess at what point do we start to question whether it is something bigger than that? There is something about our club since 1986 that suggests we are almost scared of success (or failure) in big moments - its happened under multiple coaches with multiple players.

Our success in the 80s still appears to haunt us.

 

[Gary Gutful]

I remember. I think he did his ACL later in the season.

His knees weren't meant to be carrying 100kg on a 5ft 2 frame.

 

[Joshuatheeel]

According to Gaz’s stats


2014 - 10th, 12 wins, 12 losses
2015 - 12th, 9 wins, 15 losses
2016 - 14th, 13 wins, 11 losses*
2017 - 4th, 16 wins, 8 losses
2018 - 16th, 6 wins, 18 losses
2019 - 5th, 14 wins, 10 losses
2020 - 3rd, 12 wins, 4 losses

76 wins, 78 losses - 49.4% win record.

You reckon those stats deserves an extension? Did we get excited too early ?

To be honest, I’m not sure.

Well, we all know some of those seasons were a shit sandwich for a reason.

he inherited a wooden spoon squad, had salary cap issues and couldnt even have a 30 man squad in the first 2 years.

2016 was going brilliantly until f**kwits got into a selfish war to f**k the club.

2018, the board refused to spend on the club, BA only had 1 assistant and was required to negotiate contracts etc etc

Finally with a proper club back office in place since 2019, his win rate is 65%.

 

[Eelementary]

Good points Eele.

In relation to 2014-2016 I think he probably got by because of how shit our front of house was. That really was ordinary and he was a rock during that period.

Now that we have sorted that out he should be judged more harshly on his results.

The B.Smith comparison is a good one. It seems to look that way. But I guess at what point do we start to question whether it is something bigger than that? There is something about our club since 1986 that suggests we are almost scared of success (or failure) in big moments - its happened under multiple coaches with multiple players.

Our success in the 80s still appears to haunt us.

Good points, mate.

I think I'm starting to come around to the notion that maybe Arthur may need better assistants; I'm not totally sure if it would help, but perhaps looking for better-credentialed assistant coaches may make things easier for him.

I think we've seen some of the positive things Arthur can do for us. I'd like to see more.

 

[I'm a loser baby...]

The problem with the needing better assistants thing is that head coaches choose their own assistants. And if they don't then they're on the way out anyway.

 

[Gary Gutful]

Good points, mate.

I think I'm starting to come around to the notion that maybe Arthur may need better assistants; I'm not totally sure if it would help, but perhaps looking for better-credentialed assistant coaches may make things easier for him.

I think we've seen some of the positive things Arthur can do for us. I'd like to see more.

He seems to be a coach that manages people well but he's probably not a great tactician. I see us as a talented but dumb football team.

With the right support you could potentially get the best of both worlds. That said, he should be smart enough to know his limitations and recruit his support staff accordingly.

 

[Eelementary]

He seems to be a coach that manages people well but he's probably not a great tactician. I see us as a talented but dumb football team.

With the right support you could potentially get the best of both worlds. That said, he should be smart enough to know his limitations and recruit his support staff accordingly.

I couldn't agree more.

I hope Mark O'Neil can sink his teeth into getting Arthur some more help.

 

[Kornstar]

He seems to be a coach that manages people well but he's probably not a great tactician. I see us as a talented but dumb football team.

With the right support you could potentially get the best of both worlds. That said, he should be smart enough to know his limitations and recruit his support staff accordingly.

I think i mentioned it somewhere yesterday, he said he remained loyal to the guys that stuck with him through the really tough times between 14 and 16........he needs to bite the bullet and move them on or it will be him who is moved on. Loyalty only gets you so far, especially when it is to your detriment.

 

[Joshuatheeel]

Interesting stats.

But what stands out to me is the period of 2014 through to 2016 - he saw consistent decline in ladder position finish for three consecutive years.

Most people would be in trouble at their jobs if their quality of work was proven to decline over a period of three consecutive years..

plenty of factors involved in those 3 years and it wasn’t 3 years of decline, he inherited a wooden spoon squad but nearly got us to the finals in the first year, yeah the second year was a decline, but our best player pissed off on short notice with no options to replace him. Plus there were salary cap issues and not being able to have a full squad that also affected performances.

then 2016 was definitely not a decline, he got massive improvement in the squad to have us set for the top 4 spot playing great footy, we then know the story.

so basically in 3 years he had us in the top 4, compare this to other recent sides that required rebuilds:

dogs - 3 years under pay, achieved nothing
Knights - 4 seasons under Brown, no where near the finals
Tigers - Macguire, nothing this year, going into his 3rd year still not looking likely (and he was already trying to get out as it’s to hard).

 

[IFR33K]

We'll be fine if we don't have to play Melbourne.

Or roosters. Or Canberra. Or newcastle

 

[Kornstar]

Or roosters. Or Canberra. Or newcastle

Didn't we beat 2 of those 3? Weird that you would pick those and not Roosters, Dragons and Souths........

 

[Joshuatheeel]

That said, he should be smart enough to know his limitations and recruit his support staff accordingly.

he did recruit Johns, but some idiot ate a bat....

 

[Joshuatheeel]

Interestingly Ricky has had raiders go 15th, 10th, 2nd, 10th, 10th, 4th, all with a perfect back office and no salary cap issues...

 

[Gary Gutful]

Or roosters. Or Canberra. Or newcastle

Or Souths!

 

[strider]

I think I’d take Flanagan before Green. I heard Green is a merkin. At least the players liked Flanno.

Last time you talked about Flanno you told us he is dodgy as f**k