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Dragons chase Jarryd Hayne

dragonssamy61

First Grade
Messages
5,549
For me its just paper talk.

Most assume Hayne will play a spine position aka fullback hence we need to shop Dufty around to fit him in.

I would be extremely surprised if it is so, but with our club who knows!

Dragonslayer
It players manager talking as well trying to get as much as they can
 

ouryears

Bench
Messages
3,195
I really want Dufty to stay, I think it's crazy talk that some are okay with letting him go.

I would hope we are in a better cap position than the Bulldogs at the very least!
Agree totally, for a rookie fullback he went amazingly well, won us several games that far more experienced and highly paid players couldn’t do.

Scored many brilliant tries, created others.

He had his short comings, however, Dufty will go from strength to strength, he is still learning what’s needed in the top grade, in 2019 he will go another level and then another in 2020.

I expect in 2021 he will be a regular rep player.

People who are on his back really have no understanding of what he has learnt and how champions are not made overnight.

He has the goods, just needs a bit of time.
 

ouryears

Bench
Messages
3,195
LOL, and let someone else tap into the Illawarra / South Coast region where the majority of the grade players come from. And someone smarter and better run historically would also tap into getting TPA's as a hell of lot more opportunities in those regions than the old St George shire and the Leagues Club wont help as much anymore.
As much as I love the St George area as born in it and we should retain Kogarah it aint the same football loving territory anymore
very true, the demographics of Kogarah, Hurstville, Carlton, Bexley, etc have changed totally since the 1990s.

The area has gone from league loving heartland to a non league area these days.
 

hazzbeen

Bench
Messages
4,617
Agree totally, for a rookie fullback he went amazingly well, won us several games that far more experienced and highly paid players couldn’t do.

Scored many brilliant tries, created others.

He had his short comings, however, Dufty will go from strength to strength, he is still learning what’s needed in the top grade, in 2019 he will go another level and then another in 2020.

I expect in 2021 he will be a regular rep player.

People who are on his back really have no understanding of what he has learnt and how champions are not made overnight.

He has the goods, just needs a bit of time.
Right on that is why we don't want him gone ....
 

Old Timer

Coach
Messages
18,140
It's marketable, but in a market where 10 or so other teams are competing for limited resources, history doesn't count for much. I don't think it's as easy as you make out - and you aren't really offering any real solutions up. Much like you keep hearing "we can't", I keep hearing "we can" with no substance.

In order to place ourselves in a much better financial position, would you consider moving the team?
Rugby League here, just like England caters to a very small geographic so trying to move a team or indeed create a team is very difficult.
Many attempts have failed like Perth, Adelaide, Illawarra, several incarnates on the Gold Coast and in time I believe the latest franchise at GC will also fail.
In fact I believe in the mid term unless Melbourne stay at the top that franchise will fail as well. A few years of mediocrity will expose the farce that the NRL created with that team.
IMO for St GI to successfully move it would need to go rural NSW or Qld and be guaranteed a membership of at least what we have in Sydney and rely on holding the majority of its existing fan base and I think that would be extremely unlikely, so I don't think moving is a viable option.
If we are indeed marketable then don't limit that option to just Sydney metro as we are a well known brand with a highly marketable image so broaden the horizons be that local or international.
The EPL and indeed super league teams court international sponsorship and benefactors and don't rely on the Tynan Motors of the world.
There are experts in the area of sponsorship $$$ so don't get some old mate of the club or some "Neddy" that is just re working old or common ground, get the bloke that understands big picture concept.
RL in general is full of old boys in so many facets of what it does and people like "Buzz" still get a guernsey as a so called expert and nit wits like Beattie get a job in admin so the game is full of amateurs and has beens and that is why Polites stands out as a beacon because he is a professional man who has a passion for his club and doesn't accept mediocrity.
I would rather go down swinging haymakers rather than throwing left jabs whilst being continually sat on my arse.
Roll the dice, spend the money to get the right people and see what the outcome is far better than being strangled by the boa constrictor we have around us at the moment.
 

Saint_JimmyG

First Grade
Messages
5,067
Rugby League here, just like England caters to a very small geographic so trying to move a team or indeed create a team is very difficult.
Many attempts have failed like Perth, Adelaide, Illawarra, several incarnates on the Gold Coast and in time I believe the latest franchise at GC will also fail.
In fact I believe in the mid term unless Melbourne stay at the top that franchise will fail as well. A few years of mediocrity will expose the farce that the NRL created with that team.
IMO for St GI to successfully move it would need to go rural NSW or Qld and be guaranteed a membership of at least what we have in Sydney and rely on holding the majority of its existing fan base and I think that would be extremely unlikely, so I don't think moving is a viable option.
If we are indeed marketable then don't limit that option to just Sydney metro as we are a well known brand with a highly marketable image so broaden the horizons be that local or international.
The EPL and indeed super league teams court international sponsorship and benefactors and don't rely on the Tynan Motors of the world.
There are experts in the area of sponsorship $$$ so don't get some old mate of the club or some "Neddy" that is just re working old or common ground, get the bloke that understands big picture concept.
RL in general is full of old boys in so many facets of what it does and people like "Buzz" still get a guernsey as a so called expert and nit wits like Beattie get a job in admin so the game is full of amateurs and has beens and that is why Polites stands out as a beacon because he is a professional man who has a passion for his club and doesn't accept mediocrity.
I would rather go down swinging haymakers rather than throwing left jabs whilst being continually sat on my arse.
Roll the dice, spend the money to get the right people and see what the outcome is far better than being strangled by the boa constrictor we have around us at the moment.

The Perth Reds (and the Western Reds) did not fail. Rather, it was Super League which failed it.

If it weren’t for the incursion of this disgraceful rebel competition, I firmly believe rugby league would be a bona fide national code that would rival the AFL.

Sadly that is not the case today, and I don’t reckon that will ever be the case either.
 

Old Timer

Coach
Messages
18,140
The Perth Reds (and the Western Reds) did not fail. Rather, it was Super League which failed it.

If it weren’t for the incursion of this disgraceful rebel competition, I firmly believe rugby league would be a bona fide national code that would rival the AFL.

Sadly that is not the case today, and I don’t reckon that will ever be the case either.
WA was reliant on ex pats and without them RL was never going to succeed, so with any fluctuations in the mining industry RL there would be affected immediately.
While AFL can garner close to 100,00 for elected club games we will never mount a challenge to that as they have largely maintained their tribal culture where we dismiss it far too lightly.
 

Saint_JimmyG

First Grade
Messages
5,067
WA was reliant on ex pats and without them RL was never going to succeed, so with any fluctuations in the mining industry RL there would be affected immediately.
While AFL can garner close to 100,00 for elected club games we will never mount a challenge to that as they have largely maintained their tribal culture where we dismiss it far too lightly.

The average crowd figures per game for the Reds during its short lifespan disagree with your assertion apropos reliance. As someone who has frequently visited Perth since 2002, allow me to assure you that the game, and indeed, the local governing body, the WARL, has a firm following. Of course, it’s not on the same level as the AFL but it’s still self evident if one pays attention closely enough.
 

True_Believer

Juniors
Messages
1,845
Rugby League here, just like England caters to a very small geographic so trying to move a team or indeed create a team is very difficult.
Many attempts have failed like Perth, Adelaide, Illawarra, several incarnates on the Gold Coast and in time I believe the latest franchise at GC will also fail.
In fact I believe in the mid term unless Melbourne stay at the top that franchise will fail as well. A few years of mediocrity will expose the farce that the NRL created with that team.
IMO for St GI to successfully move it would need to go rural NSW or Qld and be guaranteed a membership of at least what we have in Sydney and rely on holding the majority of its existing fan base and I think that would be extremely unlikely, so I don't think moving is a viable option.
If we are indeed marketable then don't limit that option to just Sydney metro as we are a well known brand with a highly marketable image so broaden the horizons be that local or international.
The EPL and indeed super league teams court international sponsorship and benefactors and don't rely on the Tynan Motors of the world.
There are experts in the area of sponsorship $$$ so don't get some old mate of the club or some "Neddy" that is just re working old or common ground, get the bloke that understands big picture concept.
RL in general is full of old boys in so many facets of what it does and people like "Buzz" still get a guernsey as a so called expert and nit wits like Beattie get a job in admin so the game is full of amateurs and has beens and that is why Polites stands out as a beacon because he is a professional man who has a passion for his club and doesn't accept mediocrity.
I would rather go down swinging haymakers rather than throwing left jabs whilst being continually sat on my arse.
Roll the dice, spend the money to get the right people and see what the outcome is far better than being strangled by the boa constrictor we have around us at the moment.


All very valid points – however I would argue some don’t apply to NRL.

The EPL stands out as a very different prospect as this is a truly international game. Membership, sponsorship spans countries, continents – so it’s a different approach to securing sponsorship and membership. In comparison, League has a very narrow supporter base and only pretends to be international. Although there are clubs set up in Canada, US, Europe, it’s really only Australasia (including NZ and the islands) and England. Hardly a worldwide sport. We’ve got a long way to go before we can compete with the EPL.

As far as Super League is concerned, sponsorship is the same as here. We were sponsored by Jeep for a period – an international brand. Just as some Super League clubs are sponsored by international brands (Emirates for example). But both also rely on more localised support (St George Bank vs Leeds Building Society). So I don’t see anything different between sponsorship opportunities there. Additionally, I don’t know if TPAs even apply over there. It may be a completely different model. Here, much of the sponsorship revolves around QLD and NSW so that means our market is very narrow. Stepping out of the box costs money – and we’re already hamstrung in that area.

This is how I understand it works in its current format:

Sponsorship and membership are different to TPAs. TPA’s are meant to be additional payments made to the player on top of his salary cap allowance – and sponsorship dollars or club funds (including membership and Leagues club input) are excluded from that. That goes directly to the club to cover business costs. Sure, a company like Jeep may use our players to advertise them, but that would be part of the sponsorship deal and none of the money gained from Jeep would go to the players. With regards to sponsorship and club funds, reports from recent years suggest that only 1, maybe 2 teams are making a profit – and even then, it’s not a significant amount.

TPA’s, I’ve heard, are meant to be initiated outside the club, with no input from the club or the player manager. I follow a few players on Instagram and see them advertising products all the time – Puma, Gameday Mouthguards, Budgie Smugglers, XBlades etc. So I assume they are getting paid by those companies to do that. But how does that work? Do organisations approach the player and say “I want you to advertise our product, but it only applies while you are playing for the Dragons.”? Or does an external company go to the club and say “I will sponsor Ado Carr $100k for 3 years if you can get him to join the Dragons”? I daresay some TPAs are independent of club affiliation (eg. Billy Slater and QLD Bananas) so how do we get around this? Are we just not recruiting high enough profile players that companies want to sponsor? TPA’s are what lures the players because it is the only money other than the salary cap that gets paid to them. And this is where we are behind the 8 ball.

Teams like Brisbane and Melbourne have a massive advantage here because they are 1 city teams – Organisations are jumping over themselves to pay extra to keep them in their favourite clubs colours and to have the players promote their products. I lived in Brisbane for a long time and it was nauseating having Broncos on TV all the time – and I mean ALL the time. They were in everything. Then you have clubs like Roosters and Souths who have notable owners that bring contacts or financial gain. How that applies to TPAs I am not sure. But as we know, owners like News Limited have stepped in in the past to secure coaches etc. So there is impact there.

So in the end, the way I see it, unless you are a one city team or have an owner with contacts/financial clout, I don’t see that you can compete on the TPA level, which is where we are failing miserably (reportedly). Hope that WIN may provide some advantage here but given they haven’t done it to date, I’m not holding out much hope.
 

possm

Coach
Messages
16,022
A choice between Hayne or M. Jennings, I'd take Jennings over Hayne in a heartbeat.

We need a fullback that can play centre when required, not a centre; we currently have 4 centres so why a 5th?

We have a good attacking fullback who is dodgy under the high ball, dodgy in defence and needs to learn a lot more about positional play.

Dufty at 22 is not a junior anymore but may take about two years to upgrade his defence and improve on other skills. That is what ISP is good for, many grown men to tackle, many high balls to catch under pressure and lots of practice in reading the game.

Why take the risk? Sign him for two years and let him learn his skills in ISP.
 

Brutalitops

Juniors
Messages
2,333
We need a fullback that can play centre when required, not a centre; we currently have 4 centres so why a 5th?

We have a good attacking fullback who is dodgy under the high ball, dodgy in defence and needs to learn a lot more about positional play.

Dufty at 22 is not a junior anymore but may take about two years to upgrade his defence and improve on other skills. That is what ISP is good for, many grown men to tackle, many high balls to catch under pressure and lots of practice in reading the game.

Why take the risk? Sign him for two years and let him learn his skills in ISP.
Why do you assume it will take 2 years? Why can't he improve skills over an off season? Why can't these skills be worked on in first grade? It's really only tweaking that needs to be done, not changing the fundamentals of his game, and as long as his overall input is not detrimental to the first grade team, why must he learn in ISP?

Dufty will learn nothing of the sort in reserve grade. He needs NRL defence experience
 

possm

Coach
Messages
16,022
I really want Dufty to stay, I think it's crazy talk that some are okay with letting him go.

I would hope we are in a better cap position than the Bulldogs at the very least!
Dufty's value is what the market will pay for him. At the moment he is contracted to the Dragons for 2019 so if we want, he won't be going anywhere until seasons end. If they need to lose a player before June 30, then select Aitken, Lafai and Dufty in ISP. One will ask for a release rather than us shop him around. Unless Mann wants to go, I would keep him because he is a good left centre and he is very versatile in times of injury.

Who knows, dropping Aitken, Lafai and Dufty to ISP might do the world of good for their enthusiasm to play well and win back their spot.

We need a solid all round player at the back if we desire a spot in the 2019 GF. So let's just forget about selecting players who just don't cut it.
 

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