Dugan/Widdop/Marshall/Farrah Spine??

[Vasilevsky]

Cant help your inability to understand the bleeding obvious.
Whiddop left Melbourne to be in his own words a leader at St GI.
For a while that was so and along comes BM who then wants to run the team and the plays. This is a commonly held view across many of the forums. Outcome dissconnect in the halves.
Whiddop also inherits JD a great player but also an indiviudal and at times complete hog of the ball.
Now people want Farrah to come and bring his style to the club.
We purchased Whiddop to do a job and the others ended up here by default. Not saying we dont want them just saying they were not purchased for the same reason as Whiddop.
Let Whiddop do what he was brought to do and stop giving him individualists who will want to take control of the game.
Farrah wouldn't be coming here to play second fiddle to anyone.

So what you are saying is that while Widdop is on the books we should be be satisfied with mediocrity (at best) because he wants full control of the team (which he had for 2/3 of the most disastrous season almost in living memory)?

As surely everyone already knows, I think Benji was the most important player for the Dragons last season with Dugan as second and daylight third (certainly insofar as backs and scoring tries. Forwards were really good last season.) but I also think Widdop is a good player. Having said that, I'm baffled by the blind loyalty and devotion he inspires among a small bunch of homies on this forum. The kind of loyalty Cooper, Young, Gasnier, Hornby, Timmins, Blacklock, Mary himself and etc could only dream of.

 

[TruSaint]

Gotta say Mary and the coaching staff are to blame here.

Mary determines the game plan. In years gone by the game plan was give the ball to Gasnier. Now it is give the ball to Benji.

On paper we have 4 very good players in the spine.

On game day we were predictable in the opposition quarter.

Very few decoy runs, too much crabbing across field, players passing well before the defensive line, attacking players failing to run good lines, standard of dummy half service equivalent to under 6's

May need to review your stats, as to whom gets / doesnt get the ball.

I also disagree with the " Give it Gasnier " analogy. Sure there where times, where defensive lines were in shatters, and giving a game breaker the ball made sense.

Damned if you do and so forth.

How many times have I heard " Gasnier didnt get the ball in his hands enough", or "BMoz had no impact ". You play the game in front of you ..

Widdop was great last year, and in many games so was Marshall. At the end of the day, you play " whats in the interest of the team at the time ".

PS this isnt Widdop v Benji... Their offerings as so different.

 

[Saints Forever]

May need to review your stats, as to whom gets / doesnt get the ball.

I also disagree with the " Give it Gasnier " analogy. Sure there where times, where defensive lines were in shatters, and giving a game breaker the ball made sense.

Damned if you do and so forth.

How many times have I heard " Gasnier didnt get the ball in his hands enough", or "BMoz had no impact ". You play the game in front of you ..

Widdop was great last year, and in many games so was Marshall. At the end of the day, you play " whats in the interest of the team at the time ".

PS this isnt Widdop v Benji... Their offerings as so different.

Am a bit confused by your response.

You have ignored the core element of my contribution which was Mary must take responsibility for the ineffectiveness of the spine and its use in attack.

My one line concerning Gaz and Benji relates to what we fans wanted to see, not what actually occurred, hence statistics are in this case irrelevant.

In essence poor coaching of attack means attacking weapons are poorly utilised. That was my point.

 

[TruSaint]

Am a bit confused by your response.

You have ignored the core element of my contribution which was Mary must take responsibility for the ineffectiveness of the spine and its use in attack.

My one line concerning Gaz and Benji relates to what we fans wanted to see, not what actually occurred, hence statistics are in this case irrelevant.

In essence poor coaching of attack means attacking weapons are poorly utilised. That was my point.

Nah , i got your message.

Mary has stated in many a presser " he played the game as deemed appropriate " to our opp.

In some games, Gaz would take the reins, and in others.. yep BM.

Whether or not that has worked is open for debate.

In closing though, stats, whether we like em or not... matter.

 

[Jubileeboy]

Am a bit confused by your response.

You have ignored the core element of my contribution which was Mary must take responsibility for the ineffectiveness of the spine and its use in attack.

My one line concerning Gaz and Benji relates to what we fans wanted to see, not what actually occurred, hence statistics are in this case irrelevant.

In essence poor coaching of attack means attacking weapons are poorly utilised. That was my point.

Yet players keep coming out admitting they didn't follow a game plan.
Most mug league followers can see when this happens, I'm sure the coaching staff do as well.
Outside of De Belin to half, Mary has been ok with the squad at hand.

 

[BennyV]

Yet players keep coming out admitting they didn't follow a game plan.
Most mug league followers can see when this happens, I'm sure the coaching staff do as well.
Outside of De Belin to half, Mary has been ok with the squad at hand.

I dont think that's debatable, he wxceed all bar Dino's expectations. However, there are ways he can improve next year.

 

[denis preston]

I dont think that's debatable, he wxceed all bar Dino's expectations. However, there are ways he can improve next year.

Absolutely , AND that the exciting part about next season.

 

[Objective View]

I dont think that's debatable

Mary has been ok with squad at hand?

I think that's very debatable.

Straight Shooter

 

[saints4ever]

So...sucks about Farah huh...

 

[RED73V]

So what you are saying is that while Widdop is on the books we should be be satisfied with mediocrity (at best) because he wants full control of the team (which he had for 2/3 of the most disastrous season almost in living memory)?

As surely everyone already knows, I think Benji was the most important player for the Dragons last season with Dugan as second and daylight third (certainly insofar as backs and scoring tries. Forwards were really good last season.) but I also think Widdop is a good player. Having said that, I'm baffled by the blind loyalty and devotion he inspires among a small bunch of homies on this forum. The kind of loyalty Cooper, Young, Gasnier, Hornby, Timmins, Blacklock, Mary himself and etc could only dream of.

Old Timer is 100% right Vas , Homie don't play that your infatuation with Bunji is sickening to say the least I have said it b4 & will say it again Widdop has given Bunji way to much respect he needs Mary to spell it out to Bunji that Widdop is the man & someone we should be building a team around. As for your thoughts on RF alienating Widdop its true the old firm back together from Wests Tigers bad move for a talent like Widdop he will surely move on . I don't see Bunji playing for his country Vas even when there are injuries , they would still pick someone else out of position like Hiku to fill the void. Says a lot about what they think of Bunji hey!!!!!!](*,):BDH::BDH::BDH:

 

[Vasilevsky]

Old Timer is 100% right Vas , Homie don't play that your infatuation with Bunji is sickening to say the least I have said it b4 & will say it again Widdop has given Bunji way to much respect he needs Mary to spell it out to Bunji that Widdop is the man & someone we should be building a team around. As for your thoughts on RF alienating Widdop its true the old firm back together from Wests Tigers bad move for a talent like Widdop he will surely move on . I don't see Bunji playing for his country Vas even when there are injuries , they would still pick someone else out of position like Hiku to fill the void. Says a lot about what they think of Bunji hey!!!!!!](*,):BDH::BDH:

I don't care to go over this again. The proof is in the original statement which you just stated your agreement with. The feelings of Widdop are far more important than the success of the team:?.

 

[BrissyRedV]

So f**k off to the Broncos forum then!

Bennett isn't a 'messiah'. He is who was actively plotting against the long-term success of the team while he was still the coach! I mean, FFS if he thought Fien, Hornby, Young and Cooper were still good enough to sign on for long-term deals, why didn't he take them to Newcastle even when they were struggling badly and the Dragons were pushing those players into retirement while still under contract?

That a very good point which only further illuminates the point I was making. At Brisbane he is/was known for retiring players one year too early rather than one year too late. At St George and Newcastle he should be known as the coach who retires players 2 or 3 years too late. But of course only when he knows he won't be around to take the fall for it.

Hahaha you really have NFI and should perhaps take your own advice and piss off back to the Tiggers forum.

To think, in your eyes not only did Bennett coach the team but he also handled all the recruitment, contracts and salary cap management! Surely that makes him super human! If you look back, Hornby, Young, Cooper and Fein all played there final years under Price, so why didn't he tap them on the shoulder? Why would Bennett tap them on the shoulder when he was leaving anyway?

To further my point, you lambaste Bennett for not tapping these guys on the shoulder and not setting up our teams long term success by letting Hornby, Young and co. play a season to long and then in the very same thread you advocate the recruitment of an aging star in Robbie Farah! Hornby was 32 when he retired, Young 29, Fein 33 and Cooper 33. Robbie Farah, who arguably plays in one of the most physically demanding positions, will be 32 at the start of next season! Sure, we might get one good season out of him and might be a good pick up for next season if your Tiggers heavily subsidise his contract, but with our management, that is highly unlikely and we may end paying more than we bargained for and lose any cap space that may have been made for 2017.

Us Dragons fans may have been disillusioned with Bennett after he left and took the cream of our players with him, and this may have tarnished his image in some way to Saints fans, but he still broke a 3 decade drought for us and brought us a very successful period in our history. For that, I cannot dislike the man or criticise him for it.

I would like to clear up a point with regards to Benji and our spine. I do not dislike Benji or doubt his value to our team currently which is how it may have come off previously. My view on Benji and Widdop as a combo is that IMO, when Benji has his other half control the game more and move the team around the park, it allows Benji to play a bit more ad lib which I see as his strength. I believe with Benji it should be quality over quantity and we have seen this previously with other halves he has played with. When he played with Lui and Prince, they moved the team in the right direction allowing Benji to inject himself into the game with quality touches. This should by no means mean he should receive less touches when compared with Widdop, but he should limit himself until he sees something that he can take advantage of in the defensive line and allow Widdop who I see as the more controlled of the two, to move the team around. If Farah does come over, he will also help in this which is a real issue with Rein and his vision.

 

[BennyV]

Hahaha you really have NFI and should perhaps take your own advice and piss off back to the Tiggers forum.

To think, in your eyes not only did Bennett coach the team but he also handled all the recruitment, contracts and salary cap management! Surely that makes him super human! If you look back, Hornby, Young, Cooper and Fein all played there final years under Price, so why didn't he tap them on the shoulder? Why would Bennett tap them on the shoulder when he was leaving anyway?

To further my point, you lambaste Bennett for not tapping these guys on the shoulder and not setting up our teams long term success by letting Hornby, Young and co. play a season to long and then in the very same thread you advocate the recruitment of an aging star in Robbie Farah! Hornby was 32 when he retired, Young 29, Fein 33 and Cooper 33. Robbie Farah, who arguably plays in one of the most physically demanding positions, will be 32 at the start of next season! Sure, we might get one good season out of him and might be a good pick up for next season if your Tiggers heavily subsidise his contract, but with our management, that is highly unlikely and we may end paying more than we bargained for and lose any cap space that may have been made for 2017.

Us Dragons fans may have been disillusioned with Bennett after he left and took the cream of our players with him, and this may have tarnished his image in some way to Saints fans, but he still broke a 3 decade drought for us and brought us a very successful period in our history. For that, I cannot dislike the man or criticise him for it.

I would like to clear up a point with regards to Benji and our spine. I do not dislike Benji or doubt his value to our team currently which is how it may have come off previously. My view on Benji and Widdop as a combo is that IMO, when Benji has his other half control the game more and move the team around the park, it allows Benji to play a bit more ad lib which I see as his strength. I believe with Benji it should be quality over quantity and we have seen this previously with other halves he has played with. When he played with Lui and Prince, they moved the team in the right direction allowing Benji to inject himself into the game with quality touches. This should by no means mean he should receive less touches when compared with Widdop, but he should limit himself until he sees something that he can take advantage of in the defensive line and allow Widdop who I see as the more controlled of the two, to move the team around. If Farah does come over, he will also help in this which is a real issue with Rein and his vision.

That's all real good, and I'mma let you finish, but for the love of all that is good and holy, Bennett did NOT take the cream of our players when he left! He took Boyd. That's it. No-one else. Nada. Nope. Not another decent player.

Smith went to Sharks a year before Bennett left. Scott went to Newcastle after spending a year under Price and then being told he wasn't wanted unless he was willing to stay for peanuts. Costigan left for Newcastle a year before Bennett. Cuthberson left the same time as Scott, and he could hardly be considered the cream of anything!! THere's noone else bro.

 

[BrissyRedV]

That's all real good, and I'mma let you finish, but for the love of all that is good and holy, Bennett did NOT take the cream of our players when he left! He took Boyd. That's it. No-one else. Nada. Nope. Not another decent player.

Smith went to Sharks a year before Bennett left. Scott went to Newcastle after spending a year under Price and then being told he wasn't wanted unless he was willing to stay for peanuts. Costigan left for Newcastle a year before Bennett. Cuthberson left the same time as Scott, and he could hardly be considered the cream of anything!! THere's noone else bro.

Yep, accepted. I was just simplifying the timeline. Some of those did shortly end up playing under him again at the knights as well as Beau.

 

[BennyV]

Yep, accepted. I was just simplifying the timeline. Some of those did shortly end up playing under him again at the knights as well as Beau.

Fair enough. It's just one of those bullshit misconceptions that does my head in. Right up there with ordering premiership shirts in June and Bennett wanting 5 years.

 

[Vasilevsky]

Hahaha you really have NFI and should perhaps take your own advice and piss off back to the Tiggers forum.

To think, in your eyes not only did Bennett coach the team but he also handled all the recruitment, contracts and salary cap management! Surely that makes him super human! If you look back, Hornby, Young, Cooper and Fein all played there final years under Price, so why didn't he tap them on the shoulder? Why would Bennett tap them on the shoulder when he was leaving anyway?

To further my point, you lambaste Bennett for not tapping these guys on the shoulder and not setting up our teams long term success by letting Hornby, Young and co. play a season to long and then in the very same thread you advocate the recruitment of an aging star in Robbie Farah! Hornby was 32 when he retired, Young 29, Fein 33 and Cooper 33. Robbie Farah, who arguably plays in one of the most physically demanding positions, will be 32 at the start of next season! Sure, we might get one good season out of him and might be a good pick up for next season if your Tiggers heavily subsidise his contract, but with our management, that is highly unlikely and we may end paying more than we bargained for and lose any cap space that may have been made for 2017.

Us Dragons fans may have been disillusioned with Bennett after he left and took the cream of our players with him, and this may have tarnished his image in some way to Saints fans, but he still broke a 3 decade drought for us and brought us a very successful period in our history. For that, I cannot dislike the man or criticise him for it.

I would like to clear up a point with regards to Benji and our spine. I do not dislike Benji or doubt his value to our team currently which is how it may have come off previously. My view on Benji and Widdop as a combo is that IMO, when Benji has his other half control the game more and move the team around the park, it allows Benji to play a bit more ad lib which I see as his strength. I believe with Benji it should be quality over quantity and we have seen this previously with other halves he has played with. When he played with Lui and Prince, they moved the team in the right direction allowing Benji to inject himself into the game with quality touches. This should by no means mean he should receive less touches when compared with Widdop, but he should limit himself until he sees something that he can take advantage of in the defensive line and allow Widdop who I see as the more controlled of the two, to move the team around. If Farah does come over, he will also help in this which is a real issue with Rein and his vision.

If you want me to read all that, firstly you have to be smarter and make more sense generally but mostly importantly, you must stop drooling over an enemy coach.

 

[jenninga]

If you want me to read all that, firstly you have to be smarter and make more sense generally but mostly importantly, you must stop drooling over an enemy coach.

That's the problem with you being a thickhead,it's your way or the highway.
People give their views but you're just stubborn.

 

[Vasilevsky]

That's the problem with you being a thickhead,it's your way or the highway.
People give their views but you're just stubborn.

That's more like it.

There are a few things I won't tolerate. Drooling over an enemy coach, calling him 'a messiah' (literally FFS:crazy is most certainly one of those things.

 

[BrissyRedV]

If you want me to read all that, firstly you have to be smarter and make more sense generally but mostly importantly, you must stop drooling over an enemy coach.

Thank you for highlighting what a completely ignorant douche bag you truly are. I suppose you are still crying over your Sheens coached Tiggers getting beaten by us in the 2010 semi?

 

[RED73V]

I don't care to go over this again. The proof is in the original statement which you just stated your agreement with. The feelings of Widdop are far more important than the success of the team:?.

That is your interpretation of it through your rose coloured Bunji glasses Vas. The point I was making was not the feelings of Widdop over the success of the team , it is Widdop who will create more success for the team if he is the dominant playmaker & Bunji steers the team around the way he is supposed to. Once again it is not about Widdops feelings it's about recognising who makes the better decisions on a consistent basis & not going for the miracle play or miracle ball that ends up in the fifth row. As an experienced player & halfback Bunji is supposed to build pressure on the defense not hand overs glut of easy possession through his brain snaps. [-X[-X[-X