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Eels in the media

lingard

Coach
Messages
11,439
So, do you think Gutherson is ok as a part-time centre?

If so, then who becomes our part-time fullback?

I just made a comment that (in an ideal world) I'd have Gutherson at centre (over most centres in the game, actually - because I rate him highly as a player) and I'd have a specialist fullback who is a bit faster. And, I suppose I wouldn't have bought Blake, I would have gone after a fullback. f**k, people get precious on here.
 

Eelementary

Post Whore
Messages
57,292
I just made a comment that (in an ideal world) I'd have Gutherson at centre (over most centres in the game, actually - because I rate him highly as a player) and I'd have a specialist fullback who is a bit faster. And, I suppose I wouldn't have bought Blake, I would have gone after a fullback. f**k, people get precious on here.

Yeah, fair call - just wanted to hear your thoughts on the subject.

Waqa Blake's signing was odd - but I am glad we did sign him. He is a weapon.
 

84 Baby

Referee
Messages
29,954
Centre needs power, anticipation and good defence. Doesn't necessarily require a lot of speed; Gutho has enough for centre. Takairangi hasn't got a whole lot of speed, but has strength, and is a terrific attacking centre when he doesn't have his brain explosions. Gutherson, I think, could be like that - but with better defence and far more level-headed play than Takairangi. Let's just agree to disagree, okay?
I really can’t see Gunco as anything above a middling centre. He certainly doesn’t have the power (mostly because he doesn’t have the size or speed/acceleration) of a Waqa, Latrell, etc. Anticipation isn’t a requirement either. Centres mostly just pick a line and run it, hardly need to anticipate anything. Unless you mean defensive anticipation in which case, how do you figure a guy with a handful of games at centre would have good anticipation? And his defence similar to his power would at best be middle of road and potentially worse. Taka is a completely different body type. His acceleration wouldn’t be much slower than Gunco, but his size equals more power. Plus he has way more experience at centre. Gunco’s all around defence would probably be better than Taka, but front on Taka has him easy.
And no I won’t agree to disagree. How will one of us learn then?
 

lingard

Coach
Messages
11,439
I really can’t see Gunco as anything above a middling centre. He certainly doesn’t have the power (mostly because he doesn’t have the size or speed/acceleration) of a Waqa, Latrell, etc. Anticipation isn’t a requirement either. Centres mostly just pick a line and run it, hardly need to anticipate anything. Unless you mean defensive anticipation in which case, how do you figure a guy with a handful of games at centre would have good anticipation? And his defence similar to his power would at best be middle of road and potentially worse. Taka is a completely different body type. His acceleration wouldn’t be much slower than Gunco, but his size equals more power. Plus he has way more experience at centre. Gunco’s all around defence would probably be better than Taka, but front on Taka has him easy.
And no I won’t agree to disagree. How will one of us learn then?

It's going to be very difficult. Maybe neither of us will learn - had you thought of that?
 
Messages
42,876
I think the jury is still out on Gutho as fullback. Having a look at the 2019 stats, mostly against Tedesco, RTS, TT and Ponga, he looks deficient in terms of line breaks and average running metres. And he touches the ball a massive amount of times, which would inflate his ball playing stats.
 

strider

Post Whore
Messages
79,047
He is not Teddy or RTS ... nor Turbo ... they are the elite fullbacks .... but if he's next level down, then we are doing well
 

Noise

Coach
Messages
18,233
I think the jury is still out on Gutho as fullback. Having a look at the 2019 stats, mostly against Tedesco, RTS, TT and Ponga, he looks deficient in terms of line breaks and average running metres. And he touches the ball a massive amount of times, which would inflate his ball playing stats.
Those are the current 4 best fullbacks and are all on or soon to be on around a million dollars. I reckon Guth is probably in the next tier down and payed a few hundred grand less. Just because he isn't a 'top 4' fullback doesn't mean the jury is still out on him. There are 16 first choice fullbacks in the comp. If you are 5th or 6th best you are still probably pretty dam good.
 
Messages
42,876
Those are the current 4 best fullbacks and are all on or soon to be on around a million dollars. I reckon Guth is probably in the next tier down and payed a few hundred grand less. Just because he isn't a 'top 4' fullback doesn't mean the jury is still out on him. There are 16 first choice fullbacks in the comp. If you are 5th or 6th best you are still probably pretty dam good.
I should clarify I don't think he shouldn't be our fullback. And maybe he's 5th or 6th best, or 7th or 8th, but then you're starting to get pretty close to average. But let's be honest because history repeats. We won the spoon last year and also Gutho started the year on fire. Then we obviously went on to the finals and won our first game in yonks. That's the classic type of situation that leads fans (particularly ours?) to overrate our players. I don't reckon his second half of the year was all that good and before the year started most of us questioned his best position. Half a season shouldn't change that much. All I'm saying is that it's not set in stone.
 

Eelogical

Referee
Messages
23,506
I should clarify I don't think he shouldn't be our fullback. And maybe he's 5th or 6th best, or 7th or 8th, but then you're starting to get pretty close to average. But let's be honest because history repeats. We won the spoon last year and also Gutho started the year on fire. Then we obviously went on to the finals and won our first game in yonks. That's the classic type of situation that leads fans (particularly ours?) to overrate our players. I don't reckon his second half of the year was all that good and before the year started most of us questioned his best position. Half a season shouldn't change that much. All I'm saying is that it's not set in stone.
He should stay at fullback even though I have said previously that he would be better for us in the centres. It's all about the team and being able to exploit our strengths yet cover our weaknesses, as a team. If we can't do that as well as grind out a game (especially away) when it gets tough then we'll get more of the same come 2020+.
 
Messages
42,876
He should stay at fullback even though I have said previously that he would be better for us in the centres. It's all about the team and being able to exploit our strengths yet cover our weaknesses, as a team. If we can't do that as well as grind out a game (especially away) when it gets tough then we'll get more of the same come 2020+.
I don't think anyone's suggesting he isn't our current best fullback. But it would be interesting to see the comments here if we lose our first few games.
 

Bandwagon

Super Moderator
Staff member
Messages
45,583
I think the jury is still out on Gutho as fullback. Having a look at the 2019 stats, mostly against Tedesco, RTS, TT and Ponga, he looks deficient in terms of line breaks and average running metres. And he touches the ball a massive amount of times, which would inflate his ball playing stats.

The other way of looking at the amount of touches he gets is that he has the highest involvement rate of those mentioned. If that leads to the highest of any positive stat, LB,s LBA's TA's, then I dare say that's a net positive.

I'd also add on the average meters run front that Gutho suffers there on lack of kick return meters, now it might be that he's just poor at returning kicks, or it might be that we have other guys who are much better at it. Or it also might be that he very very rarely drops the ball and merkins would rather kick to the likes of Fergo or Sivo

Run meters minus KR meters

Turbo 177.5 - 45 = 132.5
Tedesco 205 - 65.5 = 139.5
RTS 206.2 - 65.5 = 152.1
Ponga 127.9 - 39.4 = Pretty shit acttually

Gutho 161.5 - 40.3 = 121.2

So not all that far off Turbo and teddy.
 
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hineyrulz

Post Whore
Messages
154,525
So who would people rather have as our fullback than Gutho? .... pick from anyone across the NRL

If the answer is teddy, TT, RTS, Ponga, then please also include a decent player to drop from our top 17 to cover the cost
We sign someone like Teddy we could lose someone like Will Smith, don’t these merkins understand squad balance FFS!!!!
 

Gronk

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
78,034
So who would people rather have as our fullback than Gutho? .... pick from anyone across the NRL

If the answer is teddy, TT, RTS, Ponga, then please also include a decent player to drop from our top 17 to cover the cost
I’d have Tom Alphabet in a prefect world, but would not want to lose two $300k players. Id rather have a balanced squad. Otherwise you end up with a Dessie squad with zero depth.
 
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