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Eels seeking permission to cheat salary cap...

Valheru

Coach
Messages
19,375
If the NRL won't register his contract for 110K & insist he's worth 400K .. then I have no issue with Parra over spending next year .. & under in 2014 to get Izzy back into the NRL.

If hes going to be used against the AFL in Western Sydney the same way they used him against us , then its worth it.
big pictures if Izzy in a Parramatta Jersey from one end of the M4 to the other;-)

The salary cup isn?t something that can/should be averaged out over x years. It is a fixed year to year number to ensure competition equality.

Allowing Parramatta to be over the cap would be ridiculous. They should have to cut players to fit him in.
 

Frailty

First Grade
Messages
9,456
If the NRL allow them to be over the cap, then how is that fair to all other clubs who didn't put an offer to Falou because of Salary Cap restrictions?
 

hardbaby

Coach
Messages
17,609
The salary cup isn?t something that can/should be averaged out over x years. It is a fixed year to year number to ensure competition equality.

Allowing Parramatta to be over the cap would be ridiculous. They should have to cut players to fit him in.

The salary cap is a fluid thing mate. Sometimes you spend short and up-grade some contracts to open up room for next year. Sure the end figure is the correct figure but the bean counters play lots of tricks to make the accounts square up.

Re Folau, it is very important to get him back into the game. If he ends up in Parra it would be a marketing dream given his previous employment with the Western Sydney AFL franchise. His decision came so late, the Eels (like every other club) were blind-sided. They don't have a great roster. They have done nothing wrong. They are favourites for the wooden spoon.

We want Folau in the game. I think we should give them some slack on this occasion. Sure it's unfair to the other clubs. But given the circumstances, it is the sensible thing to do (although maybe not by that amount, it does seem excessive).
 

Dragon_Taylor6

Juniors
Messages
724
http://www.nrl.com/nrlhq/referencecentre/salarycap/tabid/10434/default.aspx

How much can Clubs spend?

The Salary Cap for 2012 is a maximum limit of $4.4m for the 25 highest remunerated players at each club. All other players that play NRL in the current year must fit under a $350,000 Salary Cap.


For players in the top 25 Salary Cap or 2nd Tier Salary Cap, the Salary Cap value for a player each year is broken down into the following categories:
  • Playing Fee - fully included in the Salary Cap
  • Included benefits – all benefits provided to players including accommodation, travel, motor vehicles, interest free loans and manager’s fees and any applicable fringe benefits tax.
  • Win bonuses and appearance fees – Payments for appearing in or winning a game are calculated based on the number of NRL games the player played in the prior year multiplied by any applicable bonuses. For win bonuses, the calculation is capped at 13 wins.
    Example: A player appeared in 10 NRL games in 2010 and now has a 2011 Contract for $50,000 contract fee plus $1,000 per game. His Salary Cap Value would be $50,000 plus 10 times $1000 = $60,000.
  • Other bonuses – Any other bonus contained in a player’s contract will be calculated in the Salary Cap if the NRL Salary Cap Auditor expects him to achieve the bonus based on his prior year’s performance.
    Example: A player played State of Origin in 2010. His 2011 Contract includes a $20,000 State of Origin bonus. This bonus will be included in the player’s 2011 Salary Cap Value.
Note:Where a bonus is achieved by a player but was not assessed in the player’s Salary Cap Value, the bonus is carried forward and calculated in the player’s Salary Cap Value for the following year. .
Is any Remuneration excluded?



In addition to allowances, the Salary Cap Auditor has specifically excluded the following benefits to players:
  • Tertiary education (TAFE & University)
  • Approved Traineeships
  • Medical insurance costs
  • Relocation & temporary accommodation costs
In addition to the top 25 Salary Cap, clubs will have a maximum limit of $250,000 to spend on the 20 highest remunerated players who do not form part of the top 25 salary cap and who qualify for the Toyota Cup (turning 20 or less in the current year). All other players who play in the Toyota Cup must fit under a 2nd Tier Cap of $50,000.


For players in the top 20 Toyota Cup Salary Cap, the Salary Cap value for a player each year is broken down into the following categories:
  • Playing Fee – fully included in the Salary Cap
  • Included benefits – all benefits provided to players including accommodation, travel, motor vehicles, interest free loans and manager’s fees and any applicable fringe benefits tax.
  • Win bonuses & appearance fees – – Payments for appearing in or winning a game are calculated based on the number of NRL and Toyota Cup games the player played in the prior year multiplied by any applicable bonuses. For win bonuses, the calculation is capped at 13 wins.
    Example: An NYC eligible player appeared in 10 NYC games in 2010 and now has a 2011- contract for a $10,000 contract fee plus $500 per game. His Salary Cap Value would be $10,000 plus 10 times $500 = $15,000.
  • Other bonuses – Any other bonus contained in a player’s contract will be calculated in the Toyota Cup Salary Cap if the Salary Cap Auditor expects him to achieve the bonus based on his prior year’s performance.
    Example: A player played U20s for NSW in 2010. His 2011 Contract includes a $2000 U20s NSW bonus. This bonus will be included in the player’s 2011 Toyota Cup Salary Cap Value.
Note:Where a bonus is achieved by a player but was not assessed in the player’s Salary Cap Value, the bonus is carried forward and calculated in the player’s Salary Cap Value for the following year.
Is any remuneration excluded?



The Salary Cap Auditor has specifically excluded the following allowances for players to encourage clubs to spend money on career development outside football for players in the Toyota Cup:
  • Up to $15,000 per player for Tertiary education (TAFE & University).
  • Up to the award rate for Approved Traineeships.
  • Up to $15,000 per player towards an approved apprenticeship or pre-apprenticeship program.
  • Up to $150 per week in living away from home allowances.
  • Medical insurance costs.
  • Relocation & temporary accommodation costs.
Are there any allowances?

The only allowance a club may use to pay players outside of the Toyota Cup Salary Cap is an allowance of up to $30,000 across the top 20 Toyota Cup players for secondary education
What about money paid from other people or companies?

The basic guide is that if a player is receiving money from any person as a way of inducing him to play for the club, then that money will be included in the Salary Cap..
Income that a player earns from parties not related to his club is generally not included in the Salary Cap, however, the details of the agreement must be advised to the club by the player. The club must then get approval for the agreement from the Salary Cap Auditor in order for the remuneration to be excluded.
In 2006, the NRL also introduced an allowance for players who enter into Third Party Agreements with club sponsors. In 2011, the top 25 players are allowed to earn up to a maximum $300,000 from sponsorship leveraging but the total payments under these sponsorship leveraging agreements must not exceed $300,000 per club.
How can some clubs have so many elite players and still be under the Salary Cap while other clubs at the bottom of the table seem to be just under the Salary Cap?

The reality is all clubs spend the Salary Cap but not all are successful on the field. Someone has to come last and someone has to win, regardless of what they spend.
Some clubs will attract players on the basis of what the club can offer a player’s career rather than just money. Other clubs may need to spend more money to attract the same level of player


Many factors affect individual players’ remuneration levels. Some of the reasons why a player may sign with a club include:
  • Staying close to the player's home town and family.
  • The chance to work with one of the top coaches in the game.
  • Being part of a winning team and the potential to play in the Telstra Premiership Finals Series or Grand Final.
  • Increased opportunity to play NRL with that club due to a lack of competition for the player's preferred position.
  • The increased profile a player may enjoy in a one-team town.
  • The number of support staff, their expertise and the support facilities.
  • Education and welfare support structures.
In addition, a player’s salary package may include benefits that are specifically excluded from the Salary Cap, such as the payment of medical premiums, university fees etc.
How does the Salary Cap Auditor monitor the Salary Cap?

All NRL player contracts must be lodged with the Salary Cap Auditor. These contracts are reviewed and each player’s remuneration is included in the Salary Cap.
In addition, the CEO and Chairman of each club must provide a statutory declaration to the NRL at the beginning and end of each season in support of the club’s Salary Cap calculation
The Salary Cap Auditor monitors each club’s Salary Cap position throughout the year based on the information provided by clubs. In addition, the Salary Cap Auditor may perform investigations into the remuneration of players if discrepancies arise. These investigations usually involve the club and its associated entities and cover all payments made and agreements entered into that may result in benefits being provided to players.
The Salary Cap Auditor also continually monitors media reports and makes enquiries in an effort to uncover any information that may have Salary Cap implications.
When clubs have been found to either breach the Salary Cap or have made undisclosed payments to a player, then the club is issued with a breach notice
Why hasn't the Salary Cap gone up?

The Salary Cap has risen substantially since its introduction in 1998. In that year the Salary Cap was $3.25m for the top 25 players and $500,000 for all players outside of the top 25 regardless of whether they played in the NRL.

In 2012, the base figure is $4.4m with a further $350k being available to all other players who play NRL in 2011. There is no cap on players who may be signed to an NRL club but who do not actually play in the NRL or Toyota Cup.

In addition, clubs can spend an additional $250,000 plus allowances on Toyota Cup players with a further $50,000 being available to all other players who play in Toyota Cup in 2012.
Why do clubs have to let players go after they have been successful?

The value of a player rises when they have played well and the club has a successful year. If players improve their worth by becoming a representative player, for example, then the club may need to increase their pay or face the fact another club will make an offer at his new market rate.
The other factor is that clubs may also seek to reinforce other positions in the team by introducing new talent and football departments will prioritise between retention and recruitment.
Third Party Agreements

Third party agreements are payments made by companies directly to players. There is no restriction on the amount a player can earn through third party agreements where he is being paid for his own intellectual property, without the need to employ club logos or names and where the company involved is neither a club sponsor nor are they acting on behalf of a club to secure the player’s services. An example of this is a player promoting a brand or product, for example, Billy Slater and Australian Bananas.
Many players do have third party agreements that are outside the salary cap. Individual players have registered third party agreements totalling in excess of $7.5 million in 2011.
All third party agreements must be registered and approved beforehand. This is to ensure that they do not become a way for clubs or players to use sponsors or third parties to undermine the salary cap. There are provisions for club sponsors to enter into agreements with elite players and for details see the Marquee Player Allowance section.
Anti-Tampering Guidelines

The current ‘anti-tampering’ guidelines state that the NRL will not register a player’s contract with a new club until after Round Thirteen in the final year of that player’s existing contract with his current club. The only exception to this is where the existing club agrees that the new contract should be registered.
There is no rule to prevent clubs talking to players at any time. There is an acceptance that nobody likes to see players negotiating with a new team but there is also the reality that players in the game do change clubs and that those discussions can take place over an extended period.
Rather than introduce ‘discussion deadlines’ that have in the past been shown to be ineffective, the NRL reserves the right not to register the contract and that ensures that the player’s existing club has a fair chance of retaining its player if it wants to.
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KiamaSaint

Coach
Messages
18,006
exactly. just becuase gallop rubber stamped it last time doesnt mean it was a good decision. i also wonder what dragons fans think as well given gasniers signing meant they lost J.Morris

It was a farce, although as it has already been mention Gaz only played 12 games that season, not a whole season so some % of value should apply.

As for the J.Morris thing, I am not sure what you are getting at. Some suggest we lost J.Morris because Gaz didn't go to French Rugby early enough, however Gaz and J.Moz play on different sides of the field. J.Moz was firmly entrenched at the Dogs and wasn't in the picture when Gaz came back as far as I am aware.

iirc, the Dogs made a play for Matt Cooper, missed him and nabbed J.Moz. The word is he wanted to forge his own indentity separate to B.Moz. can't blame him when you have nobs like Joey Johns finding hard to separate them despite their different boots in the Kangaroos.

It was a hard loss for Dragons fans, some of whom might blame Gaz but I personally feel this is a mistake.
 
Messages
12,516
I believe this should not be allowed to happen. All clubs should be competing on a level playing field every year. Can't blame them for trying but hats off to the Eels for at least being transparent.
 

betcats

Referee
Messages
23,956
Re Folau, it is very important to get him back into the game. .

We want Folau in the game. I think we should give them some slack on this occasion. Sure it's unfair to the other clubs. But given the circumstances, it is the sensible thing to do (although maybe not by that amount, it does seem excessive).

Im not buying it, I dont see how it is 'very important'.

Folau coming back is a notch in our games belt and the marketing angle is good but we deont need Folau to come back, at all.

Rugby League will survive is Western Sydney without Israel Folau.
 

Canard

Immortal
Messages
35,813
I hope the Cowboys can re-sign JT for $150K next season,also? The precedent would be ridiculous.

Does anyone believe that this would be Izzy's "actual" salary however?
 

KiamaSaint

Coach
Messages
18,006
Surely it is time to do away with the farce that is the salary cap and let the League assign point values to each player. It is clear from the Folau case that they are placing values on players as it is. Let the clubs pay what they want.
 

EelDredd

Juniors
Messages
291
I just don't understand how they can justify Folau's "Market Value" at 400k. He has been out of the game for 2 years and will take atleast a year to get back into it. How can schubert just value players? If folau wants to take 150k in his first year then so be it. If the NRL just agreed then there would be no salary cap cheating BS.
 

Delboy

First Grade
Messages
7,647
If Schubert attaches a value of $400k to Falou, and that is well over the top for someone who hasnt played for 2 years, then how in you know what does Finch go back to the Storm and play below his real "value" and it is all Ok

Sounds as if it is policy on the run, someone should walk down the hall and tell Schubert to get real.
 

EelDredd

Juniors
Messages
291
If this "Market Value" was accurate then storm would still be cheating. If Folau wanted to play for bulldogs.. no problem for schubert would have been signed 2 weeks ago. Also how does he still have a job? Didn't he let both the dogs and storm cheat? Then didn't find out till someone told him?
 
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Parra Pride

Referee
Messages
20,444
It was a farce, although as it has already been mention Gaz only played 12 games that season, not a whole season so some % of value should apply.

Well, lets do it like that then, if he would have got double for the full season that's still $110,000. The precedent is there, Schubert just doesn't give a f**k.
 

Special K

Coach
Messages
19,580
Can't let them get away with it and I can't imagine why they would agree to do it - being 400k down on a salary cap in 2014 seems like such a bad idea.

If they want him - move some guys on.
 

parraeels2010

Juniors
Messages
714
If the NRL allow them to be over the cap, then how is that fair to all other clubs who didn't put an offer to Falou because of Salary Cap restrictions?

His made it pretty clear that the eels are the Only club he wants to play for in the nrl so the other clubs would be wasting their time.
Eels or nothing
 

carcharias

Immortal
Messages
43,120
His made it pretty clear that the eels are the Only club he wants to play for in the nrl so the other clubs would be wasting their time.
Eels or nothing
I do believe he said a similar thing about GWS...didn't stop him from changing his mind.

Eels or another team.
 

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