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Expansion won't happen anytime soon

taipan

Referee
Messages
22,500
This would be my definition.Of course there are no guarantees in life.
Long term financial commitment by the NRL.Just like the fumblers have done with their clubs.
Regular break even yearly accounts, rather than continual losses.
A membership base and/or crowd of 20,000 avg.
Playing out of decent facilities.
IOW clubs also have to get their acts together.

I do note when the AFL expanded with the relocation of Swans and Lions,they had SFA competition from other codes in Melbourne.They had the money on hand to expand to the GC and GWS.And media compliant sycophants to assist.

The NRL has already sliced the Bears and joined 4 clubs together in Sydney,and Sydney has competition from AFL 2 teams ,A League 2 and the Tahs 1.North Sydney and the CC with its large population is bereft of an NRL team.

The NRL needs to spell out all major expenses against all forms of income,noty only to the clubs but to the public.

If the NRL spend $7m on supporting player education, that is a relevant necessary expense.
If they lost X amount in an All Stars game ,that is a relevant expense.
 

Marlins

Juniors
Messages
1,417
Roosters should relocate to CC & Souths should move to sfs with the dragons playing at least 4 games there as well.

I don't think Nrl will go beyond 16 teams before 2022. It seems they are more focused on expanding the state comps which I think is a good idea. Having say Nz2 & Fiji sides in the Nsw state comp is a good starting point if them clubs can build a fan base and show they can find, create talent and be successful off the field then there's a good chance they will make it to 1st grade in the future. This goes the same for the hunters in the Qcup and hopefully a WA team will be included also.
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
69,888
This would be my definition.Of course there are no guarantees in life.
Long term financial commitment by the NRL.Just like the fumblers have done with their clubs.
Regular break even yearly accounts, rather than continual losses.
A membership base and/or crowd of 20,000 avg.
Playing out of decent facilities.
IOW clubs also have to get their acts together.

I do note when the AFL expanded with the relocation of Swans and Lions,they had SFA competition from other codes in Melbourne.They had the money on hand to expand to the GC and GWS.And media compliant sycophants to assist.

The NRL has already sliced the Bears and joined 4 clubs together in Sydney,and Sydney has competition from AFL 2 teams ,A League 2 and the Tahs 1.North Sydney and the CC with its large population is bereft of an NRL team.

The NRL needs to spell out all major expenses against all forms of income,noty only to the clubs but to the public.

If the NRL spend $7m on supporting player education, that is a relevant necessary expense.
If they lost X amount in an All Stars game ,that is a relevant expense.

Lol, expansion around 2056 then.
 

Marlins

Juniors
Messages
1,417
How Expansion order should go
Central Coast Bears
Newtown jets
Coffs Harbour
St.gorge Illawarra split both teams in nrl
CQLD
Redcliffe dolphins
Ipswich jets
Wellington orcas
Christchurch Bulls
Fiji
PNG hunters
Adelaide
Mackay
Sunshine Coast
Cairns
Tasmania
NT
English team
Singapore
Perth
 

taipan

Referee
Messages
22,500
As a fan of a small club I am not surprised you'd be more than happy to see the NRL remain as is.

A growing club that actually exists.A club that had 70,000 supporters at the G/F,when many said it would not fill the stadium.A club whose membership last year was a record and is set to surpass it easily next year.A club that own its own ground, has plans for expansion.A club involved in a $400n development, with rental income coming from retail and part profits from residential unit sales.
A club with all seating sold for 2017 and all sponsors boxes ditto.
A club that had the 5th most valuable brand for a sport club, for its major sponsor in this country in 2016.
Yeah that small club LOL.

PS>I'm more than happy for the code to expand,I'm just not here to bow or do the bidding of whiners.
 

alien

Referee
Messages
20,279
How Expansion order should go
Central Coast Bears
Newtown jets
Coffs Harbour
St.gorge Illawarra split both teams in nrl
CQLD
Redcliffe dolphins
Ipswich jets
Wellington orcas
Christchurch Bulls
Fiji
PNG hunters
Adelaide
Mackay
Sunshine Coast
Cairns
Tasmania
NT
English team
Singapore
Perth

not enough talent
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
69,888
A growing club that actually exists.A club that had 70,000 supporters at the G/F,when many said it would not fill the stadium.A club whose membership last year was a record and is set to surpass it easily next year.A club that own its own ground, has plans for expansion.A club involved in a $400n development, with rental income coming from retail and part profits from residential unit sales.
A club with all seating sold for 2017 and all sponsors boxes ditto.
A club that had the 5th most valuable brand for a sport club, for its major sponsor in this country in 2016.
Yeah that small club LOL.

PS>I'm more than happy for the code to expand,I'm just not here to bow or do the bidding of whiners.

Sharks are a small club, yep you've got all those things but doesn't change your place in the world. Keeping the NRL small benefits the suburban clubs like the sharks and ensures they stay relevant and able to win games, I'm surprised you want to see expansion given this.
 

taipan

Referee
Messages
22,500
Sharks are a small club, yep you've got all those things but doesn't change your place in the world. Keeping the NRL small benefits the suburban clubs like the sharks and ensures they stay relevant and able to win games, I'm surprised you want to see expansion given this.

Perth are even smaller, oh wait they don't exist.Perhaps by your attitude. that is your place in the world.

My views on expansion are at odds with you, which makes mine humbly correct.You have not learnt one thing from SL.You chop clubs or join clubs together ,you lose fans ,some to other codes.
But you living in your bubble the other side of the country, don't give a rats.It's you only and everyone else can get shafted if need be, just to fill a slot.
My club has been through crap over the decades, and has now come out the other side smiling and growing and becoming financially strong.
All you are concerned about is looking after your own a*se and not the game as a whole.Nor the fans of the current clubs.
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
69,888
Games not big enough or strong enough to have a perth club. Best stick to the suburbs until it grows up.
 

taipan

Referee
Messages
22,500
Like the great suburbs of Brisbane,Melbourne,Newcastle,Townsville,Auckland,Canberra,Gold Coast.:rolleyes:
Cry me a river.
The financials which everyone is fighting over now( for their slice) are not there, they sure as hell "ain't " there for expansion ATM.
 

Von Hipper

Juniors
Messages
178
Games not big enough or strong enough to have a perth club. Best stick to the suburbs until it grows up.

/s haha they'll get back there one day

Like the great suburbs of Brisbane,Melbourne,Newcastle,Townsville,Auckland,Canberra,Gold Coast.:rolleyes:
Cry me a river.
The financials which everyone is fighting over now( for their slice) are not there, they sure as hell "ain't " there for expansion ATM.

they'll be there.
 

#UpUpCronulla

Juniors
Messages
4
As a life long Cronulla Sharks fan, I've got to say i completely disagree with Taipan.
The Sharks are a small club. We are absolutely a successful club, and very financial stable, but we cannot possibly claim to be a big club. The potential in Perth is much bigger than the support the Sharks currently enjoy. We are based in a small geographic area, and while we enjoy incredibly loyal support, our fan base is one of the smallest in the NRL. I'm not sure whether you live in the area or attend a lot of sharks games, but the support in the Shire is minimal. We can't throw this year, or next year's stats in anyone's face. Wait until 2018, and 2019 to see whether our club has truly grown. Our average attendance in 06 was over 16,000 people. It was 14,500 this year. On the bus to the preliminary final, everyone was on their phone searching up the words to 'Up Up Cronulla'. Even my best mate, loyal Roosters supporter knew the words, but the Sharks 'faithful' didn't.

We've got to look at growing our game, and we are not going to do that by investing in the Shire. I absolutely agree with you, the Sharks are a necessary part of the NRL. If the NRL loses the Sharks, we lose the Shire. AFL will pop in and gladly take it, like they did North Sydney. I disagree with people who think relocation, or culling clubs is the answer. We are beyond that. But we can't be limited to a small game mentality. Perth could potentially have had a 20 year old franchise today, had we invested in the Reds. Perth could have a strong junior development system and a strong support base. Same story with Adelaide. The longer we take to establish franchises there, the more time we waste. Both Adelaide and Perth averaged over 15,000 people in their first seasons, what's not to say they wouldn't have grown by now? Why couldn't they be getting 30,000 to every game, like the Swans do in a League dominated market? The support for League in Perth is undoubtedly stronger than Melbourne. And the media is much less biased. They are more open to demonstrate our sport. Adelaide's rugby league ratings match those of Perth's, despite having a much smaller population.
 

taipan

Referee
Messages
22,500
As a life long Cronulla Sharks fan, I've got to say i completely disagree with Taipan.
The Sharks are a small club. We are absolutely a successful club, and very financial stable, but we cannot possibly claim to be a big club. The potential in Perth is much bigger than the support the Sharks currently enjoy. We are based in a small geographic area, and while we enjoy incredibly loyal support, our fan base is one of the smallest in the NRL. I'm not sure whether you live in the area or attend a lot of sharks games, but the support in the Shire is minimal. We can't throw this year, or next year's stats in anyone's face. Wait until 2018, and 2019 to see whether our club has truly grown. Our average attendance in 06 was over 16,000 people. It was 14,500 this year. On the bus to the preliminary final, everyone was on their phone searching up the words to 'Up Up Cronulla'. Even my best mate, loyal Roosters supporter knew the words, but the Sharks 'faithful' didn't.

We've got to look at growing our game, and we are not going to do that by investing in the Shire. I absolutely agree with you, the Sharks are a necessary part of the NRL. If the NRL loses the Sharks, we lose the Shire. AFL will pop in and gladly take it, like they did North Sydney. I disagree with people who think relocation, or culling clubs is the answer. We are beyond that. But we can't be limited to a small game mentality. Perth could potentially have had a 20 year old franchise today, had we invested in the Reds. Perth could have a strong junior development system and a strong support base. Same story with Adelaide. The longer we take to establish franchises there, the more time we waste. Both Adelaide and Perth averaged over 15,000 people in their first seasons, what's not to say they wouldn't have grown by now? Why couldn't they be getting 30,000 to every game, like the Swans do in a League dominated market? The support for League in Perth is undoubtedly stronger than Melbourne. And the media is much less biased. They are more open to demonstrate our sport. Adelaide's rugby league ratings match those of Perth's, despite having a much smaller population.

Up.up Cronulla.
Everyone has a view,that's OK.
Let me lay the cards on the table.I'm for expansion ,always have been,and that includes Perth and Brisbane but never at the expense of current clubs.I've experienced first hand the reactions of fans ,who lost their club.Such as the Bears and the Dragons side off the joint venture.
Because I've been brought up in a conservative banking/ accounting regime, my approach is to spend within your means,and to reduce waste and double dipping.
PR's attitude is to expand and stuff any Sydney club, who has a problem.

All current NRL clubs need to have surety, and juniors need backing to offset the millions the fumblers are throwing at them.
Remembering every new club would also need the $10m plus??? 30%,plus the digital dept $25m pa, plus whatever grassroots needs to grow.And as far as grassroots is concerned we are marking time.

I've never suggested the club is anywhere near as big as the Broncos in a city of 2m.Yet this same club can secure membership nearly half the Broncos ,with a population of 250,000.Sharks fans ,many have moved from the Shire to the CC,GC and beyond.The suggestion that their fans are encompassed only by the Shire is far from the true picture.
An interesting point was made by some marketing guru recently.The Shark's jumper sponsorship wise is now the 5th ,most valuable in the country .The Swans,Broncos,Western Bulldogs,Hawthorn(from memory, then the Sharks).
The investment within the Shire must come from the club and off possible Govt grants.

I live within 3kms of the club and ground, have lived in the Shire all my life, not a Johnny come lately.I have been following them through the days of E.T and McGaw.I have committed money to the club, not only by regular season tickets ,but to the occasions when the club fell on hard times.A plaque in the wall near the Southern stand, along with many other names.I sit next to a couple who come regularly from Penrith.I guess I'm a long term committer.

You understand ,the biggest problem for the Sharks at present is not having sufficient covered seating, for people to regularly commit.I also find having the off field issues such as Carney's efforts ,the drug's issue hardly helped crowds .Nor the constant will they survive or not.Stability is the key, and they have it now.
We had a cyclone last year, two stands with coverage for about 3,000 ,say no more.

I attended the meeting at the club, when the club officially advised the reasons they were going to SL.
I was on the bus to the semis at the SFS and the G/F.No problem with people knowing the words ,was my experience.Casuals can become permanents .I was brought up on ru, now wouldn't touch it.

I agree if you don't grow you wither,I also know you overspend you go out the backdoor.The ARU is a classic example of having near $50m in the Bank ,and achieved near zeros there's nothing left.

Just as a matter of interest the Swans were struggling for years to get decent crowds, and along came the SL war, plus the culling and relocations, and who was the main beneficiary ATT? Yep the Swans and their semis rush.I am aware of 3 groups of people who once followed the Bears,who are Swan's supporter.

If the NRL came out and said we have $30m to spend on expansion tomorrow,I would be leading the cheer squad.

You must also note, if an expansion club has a few ordinary years in non heartland areas, they take a huge financial hit ala Brisbane Lions.We can project crowds in the future ,but remembering the Warriors with their 20,000 plus ,now 16,000 is considered a good crowd.

I will repeat one more time,what I want to see from the NRL.A clear and transparent outline of all their revenue, and ditto expenses.For all to see.
IMO priorities are current NRL clubs set.
Grassroots needs more funding and a weight to play program for kids.
I'm not 100% sure what or why the digital needs $25m pa.
The Titans and Knights need to be flogged off, meaning about $20m back to the NRL.
If their revenue exceeds expenses by a decent amount, then expansion should be on the agenda.
Since Smith left the admin costs have dropped by $5m pa,there's one saving.


In effect I've seen what waste can do to a club(are you there Anderson?),the same applies to the admin of a code.
 
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