Expansion - Your prefered locations

[Rockin Ronny]

They had the bidding comp but the NRL said none of the applicants (the GC Dolphins, the CC Bears or Southern Orcas) were good enough so they cancelled it.

The GC went back to the NRL and asked them what they should be working on to improve their bid and things went from there.

No, completely incorrect.

GC didn't have a stadium, funding or name.
Central Coast Bears had the name, stadium, 2 regions, backing and full funding from Singleton.
Gallop simply gave the Gold Coast 12 months to pull their finger out, represented the Gold Coast personally to the Qld Govt then put the Gold Coast in. THEN he tells every club, we'll give you $8 million to relocate to the Central Coast - which would effectively kill the Bears and rugby league on the north shore.

Without question, the most questionable dealings that rugby league has ever seen.

And you wonder why Bears' people never believe a word coming from Gallop or News Limited.

 

[Red Bear]

At least 20 years off a second Melbourne side. Think how laughable second western sydney side is for AFL, thats pretty much Melbourne.

Adelaide is little demand and a pretty small city.

Central Coast is my personal preference due to being a bears fan, Perth would be my other prefferred destination. Already some sort of a rugby following, a much less close minded city than Adelaide or Melbourne and seem welcoming to the idea of a side.

NZ are a few years off a second side, and for all the Qld wankery we see around here, only the Bronco's have been a real onfield off field sucess.
- Gold Coast - failed 3 times in the original formate, made the finals once in 11 seasons, made the finals this time for the first time in the machIV version, crowds have fallen a bit this season and there seems to be regular dress as a blue seat competitions at Skilled
- Sth Qld - muscled out by Brisbane, woeful onfield and low crowds, abject failure.
What would a 4th Qld side be like? I'm sure it will happen eventually but wait till the Titans have consolidated their spot before worrying about a 4th side north of the border.
- Nth Qld - despite a large area to draw from and News backing have made the finals 3 times in 15 seasons, their crowds in the last year werent even particularly great.

Sydney clubs will eventually fall over I would think. Cronulla seem most likely, especially if this development were to fail. Would probably end up being moved to Qld. Manly really the only other side i can see leaving Sydney anytime. an 18 team comp of

Easts
Souths
Wests Tigers
St George Illawarra
Canterbury
Parramatta
Penrith
Central Coast Bears
Newcastle
Canberra
Melbourne
NZ
Perth
Nth Qld
Sunshine Coast Sea Eagles
Brisbane Sharks (some sort of brisbane based cronulla relocation)
Broncs
Tits

- 3 and 1/2 teams to cover the inner west and southern sydney
- 3 and a 1/2 teams to cover the outer west
2 teams to cover Brisbane, flanked by the Goldy and the Sunshine Coasts
Perth covered

f**k Adelaide

 

[BuffaloRules]

No mate my idea of supporting a team is supporting them through thick and thin. Ive supported my team through a merger i disagreed with and id support my team if they relocated to Antarctica. Thats what real fans do, they keep on supporting through the highs and lows. St George Illawarra have huge followings in Brisbane and Melbourne. Many of these supporters cant make interstate games so they have to watch on tv with "remote in hand". Does that make them any less of a supporter then myself who goes to every Sydney game? Of course not.

And in your analysis of who should go where, you have graciously agreed that your team should go from playing six games a year in your home town to 12 games a year...

If they have such big followings in Melbourne and Brisbane, why not move them there??

Would you support that?

 

[lturner]

Gold Coast - failed 3 times in the original formate, made the finals once in 11 seasons, made the finals this time for the first time in the machIV version, crowds have fallen a bit this season and there seems to be regular dress as a blue seat competitions at Skilled

Haha. I saw something quite like this at North Sydney Oval this year. It was "Come dressed as a blade of grass". You should have seen it, the hill was packed, it was solid green.

For some reason, the internet forums the world over are teeming with frustrated Bears fans, but hardly any of them can be bothered getting out to a game. It's the big time or nothing for these folks.

 

[Goddo]

good post Red Bear.
Only thing I would do different would be put Cronulla in Wellington for rivalry with Auckland and growth in our third biggest market (after NSW and QLD), and give the Bears a mandate for all North Sydney and the Central Coast.

 

[Red Bear]

Haha. I saw something quite like this at North Sydney Oval this year. It was "Come dressed as a blade of grass". You should have seen it, the hill was packed, it was solid green.

For some reason, the internet forums the world over are teeming with frustrated Bears fans, but hardly any of them can be bothered getting out to a game. It's the big time or nothing for these folks.

lol, cos a first grade comp is an even comparrison with a reserve grade one??? As far as NSW Cup crowds go, ours are pretty good and getting better each year

 

[Lambretta]

Jennifer Hawkins' chest

I'd like to see that expanded

 

[lturner]

lol, cos a first grade comp is an even comparrison with a reserve grade one??? As far as NSW Cup crowds go, ours are pretty good and getting better each year

Yeah you're right they are. But not as good as Newtown's!

Considering all the weeping and gnashing of teeth over the treachery of the Bears axing from the comp, you would think that the club was totally banished from existence! They still exist, they're playing good quality footy in a comp one level down.

 

[ME SO HORNBY!]

And in your analysis of who should go where, you have graciously agreed that your team should go from playing six games a year in your home town to 12 games a year...

If they have such big followings in Melbourne and Brisbane, why not move them there??

Would you support that?

Wouldnt be what i want. But i would still support them if they moved to Brisbane, Melbourne, Perth, Adelaide..... Dubai.... Moscow...... anywhere.

Fact is if nothing is done, Sydney teams will die. That is the reality. Sharks will inevitably die and I would rather see them playing as the Adelaide Sharks with the same colours and mascot, than going broke and fading away to be forgotten forever. They might lose fans at first but in 20-30 years when a new generation of fans in Adelaide is born than nobody will care.

 

[chrisc101]

Many people have said they think that the NRL cant support more than 5 Sydney teams in the next ten years. Therefore I think that certain teams need to be relocated rather than bringing in expansion teams.

This is what I think needs to be done even though it would bring about massive opposition:

Sharks relocate to Adelaide as has been mentioned many times. They will probably go broke if something isnt done soon.

Manly relocate to the Sunshine Coast as they already have many juniors coming out of that area as well as a feeder club.

Tigers relocate to Perth. They could pretty much keep their name the "West" or "Western" Tigers.

The two Western Sydney teams Parramatta and Penrith probably need to merge to make just one western sydney team.

The Dragons need to be based soley in Wollongong. Wollongong is still a decent sized city with its own organisations to attract sponsors Sydney teams cant.

That would leave the competition as follows:

4 Sydney teams + 1 Wollongong team (Canterbury, Penrith/Parramatta, Souths, Sydney, St George Illawarra)
2 further NSW teams (Canberra, Newcastle)
4 QLD teams (North Qld, Brisbane, Gold Coast, Sunshine Coast)
1 Melbourne team (Storm)
1 Adelaide Team (Sharks)
1 Perth team (Tigers)
1 NZ team (Warriors)

That would leave 15 teams with a chance to expand the competition to 18. I think Central Coast and NZ would be givens and then 1 more expansion team.

Many people will disagree about this post. But i put it to you. Would you rather see teams like Manly, St George, Parramatta, Penrith, Sharks, Souths, Roosters etc relocate or merge, or instead just die all together in a battle of survival of the fittest. I just couldnt imagine the NRL without these teams in some way, shape or form. The AFL bit the bullet and merged Brisbane and Fitzroy and also relocated South Melbourne. im sure there was much opposition at the time but look how successful these two teams have been since. The benefits of the NRL following the AFLs lead will outweigh the negatives IMO.

Haha...ok I'll bite.

Your are true f$$$wit. I love how your team is still in there. Too bad the Dragons are a financial basketcase which rely on millions from your leagues club each year and the Tigers as a football club is a viable business. Yeah sure we are going to move.

 

[BuffaloRules]

Fact is if nothing is done, Sydney teams will die. That is the reality. Sharks will inevitably die and I would rather see them playing as the Adelaide Sharks with the same colours and mascot, than going broke and fading away to be forgotten forever. They might lose fans at first but in 20-30 years when a new generation of fans in Adelaide is born than nobody will care.

I agree with you and as I posted earlier Sydney teams are going to die...

It needs to happen naturally though, and not be forced onto supporters lke what we went through in 98-00...

Look at the Norths Supporters - they are as bitter as anything, and you cant blame them...they have been well and truly rogered with the move to CC, and then the "merger" with the Sea Eagles....

I'm hoping that some Sydney teams that have no other option would consider relocation.... if you read through the whole thread then you will see I suggested this for the Central Coast... no one seems to agree with me though...

I dont know if it would work for a developing area like Perth, Adelaide or NZ though.... You do need fresh starts in these areas I think...

 

[1 Eyed TEZZA]

Its good to play dot to dot with a map and NRL teams.

Fact is, the only clubs in any danger are Newcastle because of their stadium which wont be a problem in 12 months. Cronulla due to lack of funds, but that property development proposal has been approved, not sure what they are waiting for. And Manly because of their stadium and ownership.

Its not a matter of merge, relocate or die, as the NRL are the ones who are partially responsible for the situation our clubs find themselves in. Since we like to look at the AFL's "expansion" clubs, lets look at why their Melbourne clubs are in a strong situation aswell.

The NRL gives the clubs about 50% of its TV rights deal to the clubs, the AFL give about 95% back to its clubs. So, if the $3.5 million NRL grant is 50%, what would 95% be? almost $6 million. That is a fault of the NRL. Where its the clubs fault is that, in AFL their clubs get massive revenue from memberships, NRL clubs have never thought of it as really successful, stupid management of NRL clubs. Most management of NRL clubs dont do the game justice and shouldnt be there. We deserve better, much like our referees and NRL management itself.

 

[chrisc101]

Its good to play dot to dot with a map and NRL teams.

Fact is, the only clubs in any danger are Newcastle because of their stadium which wont be a problem in 12 months. Cronulla due to lack of funds, but that property development proposal has been approved, not sure what they are waiting for. And Manly because of their stadium.

Its not a matter of merge, relocate or die, as the NRL are the ones who are partially responsible for the situation our clubs find themselves in. Since we like to look at the AFL's "expansion" clubs, lets look at why their Melbourne clubs are in a strong situation aswell.

The NRL gives the clubs about 50% of its TV rights deal to the clubs, the AFL give about 95% back to its clubs. So, if the $3.5 million NRL grant is 50%, what would 95% be? almost $6 million. That is a fault of the NRL. Where its the clubs fault is that, in AFL their clubs get massive revenue from memberships, NRL clubs have never thought of it as really successful, stupid management of NRL clubs. Most management of NRL clubs dont do the game justice and shouldnt be there. We deserve better, much like our referees and NRL management itself.

Here here, exactly right. The clubs have to look at how to increase their profitability. No one is interested in a competition with Mickey Mouse teams.

 

[Goddo]

Crisc101

The NRL will want a team in the south of Sydney. Currently there are two, St George and Cronulla. I think you should ignore the bit about your own club and his bias towards the gong, and look at what he is saying about the health of the game in Sydney.

Unless more fans go to games instead of watching telly, or more corporate dollars come from somewhere, some Sydney teams will colapse. Thats a fact.

Which ones? Who knows, but..... Cronulla are nearly there, Manly aren't far behind. The Balmain side of your team isn't looking good, which is funny as they were the ones propping up Wests for years. Rabbitohs hold their cap out to uncle Russ every year. Newcastle scrape by because of their large crowds. Parra have a big debt but should be okay now the emperor is gone.

The only team that has a guarenteed future I think is the Bulldogs.

EDIT: How can they improve their profitability Chrisc101? Only two ways really: cut costs (move to ANZ/cut wages/staff), boost revenue (get more bums on seats and more corporate $) Each club is limited in how it does this by its circumstances.

EDIT: The problem for Cronulla with their development is they have absolutely no money to get started, and noone will lend them any cash becuase of their debt. As such, the only way to raise revenue is to offer developers a slice of the profits. They are currently trying to negotiate a deal with developers, but it seems the development is not the saviour they thought it would be, it will just ease the pressure on the club a little bit.

 

[chrisc101]

Crisc101

The NRL will want a team in the south of Sydney. Currently there are two, St George and Cronulla. I think you should ignore the bit about your own club and his bias towards the gong, and look at what he is saying about the health of the game in Sydney.

Unless more fans go to games instead of watching telly, or more corporate dollars come from somewhere, some Sydney teams will colapse. Thats a fact.

Which ones? Who knows, but..... Cronulla are nearly there, Manly aren't far behind. The Balmain side of your team isn't looking good, which is funny as they were the ones propping up Wests for years. Rabbitohs hold their cap out to uncle Russ every year. Newcastle scrape by because of their large crowds. Parra have a big debt but should be okay now the emperor is gone.

The only team that has a guarenteed future I think is the Bulldogs.

Much more balanced post, I agree totally.

The Wests Tigers are very lucky they made some tough decisions regarding game splits which has increased profitabilty and crowd averages BUT yes there is no saftey blanket from Balmain Leagues anymore.

I think some other clubs need to make tough business decisions and I also think some of the super Sydney clubs (supporter wise) need to pull their fingers out. I think Parramatta is a perfect example, huge supporter base but their overall crowd averages over the last 5 years is extremely poor.

 

[BuffaloRules]

How can they improve their profitability Chrisc101? Only two ways really: cut costs (move to ANZ/cut wages/staff), boost revenue (get more bums on seats and more corporate $) Each club is limited in how it does this by its circumstances.

They could also hope that the NRL gets bigger TV deals and pass on more of this money through to the clubs..

 

[Goddo]

The NRL wants to do that apparently Buffalo, one of Gallops stated aims by the next TV deal. Would be easier if News weren't taking $10m out of the game each year for generously funding the superleague war.

 

[RDK]

ipswich and adelaide get my vote

 

[Goddo]

Almost have a good sample size to do some confidence intervals for the general population of league fans.

 

[1 Eyed TEZZA]

Much more balanced post, I agree totally.

The Wests Tigers are very lucky they made some tough decisions regarding game splits which has increased profitabilty and crowd averages BUT yes there is no saftey blanket from Balmain Leagues anymore.

I think some other clubs need to make tough business decisions and I also think some of the super Sydney clubs (supporter wise) need to pull their fingers out. I think Parramatta is a perfect example, huge supporter base but their overall crowd averages over the last 5 years is extremely poor.

Dont worry about Parra too much, we changed our administration and so far they have done everything right. For example, Parra stadium has never had a stadium name sponsor (sponsor that pays for the name of the ground IE Suncorp Stadium or ANZ stadium), the new admin (before they got into power) planned to get a stadium naming sponsor and use the revenue to lower ticket prices. (Even though the Parra Stadium Trust is the rightful owners, but where the hell would Parra Stadium be without the Eels)

The Bulldogs are also on the up and the Tigers for the last 5 or so years have been very creative and proactive on fan increase. The Roosters used to but they seemed to have stopped all progress, rather poor these days. Penrith is my biggest dissapointment.

But overall, Sydney is not in any real trouble, no more then we were 25 years ago, better off even, a couple of clubs have problems, but no Sydney team will die before 2013.

If Sydneys crowds were bigger, we wouldnt be having this discussion, just seems that because Sydney doesnt have AFL sized crowds, that people think the game in Sydney is dying. Have a look at Penriths increase in junior numbers over the last 24 months.