FIFA 2022 WORLD CUP - NRL Support

[Schiltzenberger]

Buffalo -- what did we really need?

World Cup games were never going to be played at Penrith or Kogarah or Cronulla or Redfern ... our key stadiums (Suncorp, Melbourne, SFS, ANZ) are already where they need to be, so there wasn't much to be done.

A shiny new 50k stadium at Kogarah or Penrith makes no sense!

Perth, in contrast, sells out for both their AFL teams every week, and West Coast Eagles have multi-year waiting lists to become Members .. they NEED the stadium. Perhaps accounts for why the AFL played hard-ball, but it's not like it is the wrong decision.

And a shiny new stadium at Blacktown does?
I would love to have the WC here in Australia but half of the stadiums are going to be ovals, which is just crap. I include Stadium Australia in that as well because it's not a proper rectangle stadium, when it's configured for League it still feels like an oval. It's just a crap stadium anyway, too many seats up high on the sides and not enough at the ends.

Didn't the WA & SA governments argue against rectangular stadiums for the bid? It will likely be upgrades to Subiaco & Football Park with temporary seating.

As for Blacktown with its additional 20,000 temporary seats - well - perhaps the A-league franchise could be called the White Elephants.

What Sydney needs is a purpose built rectangular stadium, potentially with a roof, of about 50,000 smack bang central in the heart of the city. Big enough to service 3 or 4 NRL teams, A-League and Union. The Oasis project, although not as large, was looking to be something like that before the Bulldogs mess.

This.
The Blacktown stadium is a massive waste of money, my bias would rather an upgrade to Parramatta Stadium. If they didn't do that then they should've done the big stadium at Liverpool and the Bulldogs could play there, or upgrade Campbelltown and try to get the Tigers to play more games out there.

Although I do think the FFA pushed for Blacktown so they could stick a new A-League team out there. Which is stupid anyway because they could play at Liverpool and share with the Dogs.

We won't win the World Cup bid with 6 out of 12 stadiums being oval shaped... it's a requirement that a certain amount, probably up to 10 of 12, be rectangular. So any upgrades made will be to turn those stadiums into rectangular stadiums. Gold Coast more than likely, possibly ANZ even which would be great for league, and the new stadium at Blacktown will be rectangular which is a massive kick in the guts for the AFL as they're trying to get a foothold in the area. Perth and Canberra will also be getting new stadiums which no doubt will be rectangular.

We are bidding with 5 oval shape stadiums, 6 if you include Stadium Australia. Canberra will be a rectangle but Perth's is oval, they are going to knock down Subiaco and build a new AFL stadium. The Blacktown stadium does nothing for the NRL, it will probably be used for soccer.

http://www.australiabid.com.au/australias-bid_stadiums.aspx

MCG, Perth, Adelaide, Gold Coast and Geelong, all ovals. IMO, FFA is helping out AFL more than the NRL or even the A-League.

 

[Eels Dude]

What Sydney needs is a purpose built rectangular stadium, potentially with a roof, of about 50,000 smack bang central in the heart of the city. Big enough to service 3 or 4 NRL teams, A-League and Union. The Oasis project, although not as large, was looking to be something like that before the Bulldogs mess.

We don't need another stadium in the city. We already have the SFS and that just services the Roosters and the Tigers part time. All the other Sydney clubs are based too far away to use a stadium in the CBD. Blacktown may not be the perfect spot, but Parramatta, Penrith and even potentially the Tigers and Bulldogs could take big games there.

 

[djst]

It apears the AFL will more than likely be the one who benefits the most from the stadium upgrades,but they also had a fair bit of clout in the negotiating.
They were in a position of strength, regarding stadium negotiations due to the crowd numbers and revenue they can pull through the gates compared to other codes.
When the World cup has been and gone,the Stadiums Management want to know they are going to get healthy crowds and generate revenue, not be left as white elephants.

 

[Schiltzenberger]

We don't need another stadium in the city. We already have the SFS and that just services the Roosters and the Tigers part time. All the other Sydney clubs are based too far away to use a stadium in the CBD. Blacktown may not be the perfect spot, but Parramatta, Penrith and even potentially the Tigers and Bulldogs could take big games there.

It will have a capacity of 26,000 after the WC, why would any NRL team bother to take a 'big' game there?

 

[Edwahu]

Soccer is the most popular sport in South Africa among blacks. Blacks make up 80% of the population. But they are less affluent, and sports leagues as we have seen only really thrive in economically advanced nations.

In the US? Of course it has. It now has a league thats averaging 17,000, including the numerous soccer specific stadiums that have been built. Or did you actually expect it to take over the NFL?

There is no question the World Cup has an effect on its host countries. Look at Japan, attendances are now reaching 20,000 and the sport has virtually caught up with baseball in the space of a decade.

Not to mention the upgrade in infrastructure. You underestimate the effect of building/refurbishing 8-10 new stadiums in a country. Basically, the World Cup is a blessing to any host country that gets it.

That's great but I asked if it had an effect on other codes, not whether it boosted Soccer.

 

[Eels Dude]

It will have a capacity of 26,000 after the WC, why would any NRL team bother to take a 'big' game there?

How do you know that? Things change. We're talking 13 years down the track.... 13 years ago the NRL didn't even exist.

 

[Raiders_Premiers]

Didn't the WA & SA governments argue against rectangular stadiums for the bid? It will likely be upgrades to Subiaco & Football Park with temporary seating.

As for Blacktown with its additional 20,000 temporary seats - well - perhaps the A-league franchise could be called the White Elephants.

What Sydney needs is a purpose built rectangular stadium, potentially with a roof, of about 50,000 smack bang central in the heart of the city. Big enough to service 3 or 4 NRL teams, A-League and Union. The Oasis project, although not as large, was looking to be something like that before the Bulldogs mess.

I'm pretty sure Perth is a new stadium with retractable seating. Would be great for potential finals game for the Reds (when they are admitted) and if they want to take SOO there. SA will just have Adelaide Oval upgrades temporarily I'm pretty sure, nothing long lasting

Anyways if we get it it'll be a great outcome for Canberra, new rectangular stadium next to the old one

 

[chefman21]

Do we have the population to justify the increase in stadiums, especially considering the lack of space for affordable housing and housing in general?

 

[Schiltzenberger]

How do you know that? Things change. We're talking 13 years down the track.... 13 years ago the NRL didn't even exist.

Yes indeed things do change, they may plan on making it a 200k seat stadium by then.:shock:
They do have to plan for this, they aren't going to build a new different sized stadium a week before the WC. Also I don't think FIFA would like it too much if we started changing stadiums from what we've put in the bid. That's what the bid is for - "here is what we are going to do if you give us the WC" it's not - "here have a look at these pretty pictures of stadiums, we may change them by the time the WC is on though".

I'm going by what's in the bid.
http://www.australiabid.com.au/australias-bid_stadiums_blacktown-stadium---sydney.aspx

If they leave it at 40k it will be chief white elephant of the white elephant clan.

Do we have the population to justify the increase in stadiums, especially considering the lack of space for affordable housing and housing in general?

Not really, that's why most are going to be reduced after the WC, like Stadium Australia after the Olympics.

Newcastle 42k down to 34k
Canberra 40k down to 27k
Townsville 40k down to 30k
Blacktown 41k down to 26k

Some of the new AFL stadiums will do the same but I don't care about them.
Newcastle was already being upgraded, so really it's only the Cowboys and Raiders that will benefit from the WC.

 

[BunniesMan]

Do we have the population to justify the increase in stadiums, especially considering the lack of space for affordable housing and housing in general?

Space isn't the issue when it comes to housing, at least in Sydney. There is plenty of space to be developed in the Southwest and Northwest, blame an incompetent government for there not being enough development, and the development that does happen happens too expensively thanks to their redtape. Besides, the amount of space stadiums take are a drop in the ocean, it wouldn't make any difference.

And this is aimed for 12 years in the future, by then the population will be significantly higher. Have you seen any population estimates for the next 10/20/50 years. There will be plenty of demand.

 

[chefman21]

Space isn't the issue when it comes to housing, at least in Sydney. There is plenty of space to be developed in the Southwest and Northwest, blame an incompetent government for there not being enough development, and the development that does happens happens too expensively thanks to their redtape. Besides, the amount of space stadiums take are a drop in the ocean, it wouldn't make any difference.

And this is aimed for 12 years in the future, by then the population will be significantly higher. Have you seen any population estimates for the next 10/20/50 years. There will be plenty of demand.

I was thinking further down the track. In 25 years time, how far out will people have to live to find affordable housing, and what effect will that have on workers in the CBD? Continuing on, what effect will that have on transport systems, congestion, productivity and the like? It's of vital importance to sort out city infrastructure before building stadiums in my opinion. We don't want empty stadiums sitting around, especially with our tiny population and small sporting codes.

 

[Raiders_Premiers]

Not sure how Blacktown will be a white elephant...

It would be good to have most of the Western Sydney teams play out of one stadium. You would hope that games like Dogs v Eels would be able to sell 40k to regular season matches in 12 years time

 

[BunniesMan]

I was thinking further down the track. In 25 years time, how far out will people have to live to find affordable housing, and what effect will that have on workers in the CBD? Continuing on, what effect will that have on transport systems, congestion, productivity and the like? It's of vital importance to sort out city infrastructure before building stadiums in my opinion. We don't want empty stadiums sitting around, especially with our tiny population and small sporting codes.

Over the long term I'd hope 3 things happen that would help solve some of those problems.

1) Development of Parramatta as Sydney's 2nd CBD so more workers in Western Sydney are able to work closer to their homes. When the city started out, the current CBD was the geographical heart of the city. Now that's Parramatta. More and more departments of the state government, such as the police, are headquartered in Parramatta. Hopefully that trend continues over the years.

2) Lightrail. If the government looks into this seriously we could have people able to live 300km's outside of Sydney and still easily work in the city everyday.

3) IT. As people get more comfortable with IT hopefully we'll see working people spend more working hours at home instead of clogging up traffic getting to and from work.

As for having the population base to support these stadiums. By 2022 we'll be well on our way to 30 million. And because sport is such a central part of Australian life (what other country could support the amount of professional sporting teams we do) there will always be strong demand for sport. If you could buy shares in it, sport would be as safe as banks and mining in terms of the likelihood of strong continued growth.

 

[Green Machine]

How do you guys feel about the FIFA 2022 WORLD CUP now that Austarlia is favourite to host.

http://www.tntmagazine.com/sports/a...lia-s-2022-world-cup-bid-suffers-setback.aspx

Australia's bid to host the football World Cup in 2022 has taken a hit, with Tahitian Reynald Temarii – the Oceania boss who would have supported the Aussie bid – stood down by Fifa's ethics committee.

Temarii's one-year ban, coming after a British newspaper lured him into a vote-buying sting, means he will not be present in Zurich on December 2, when Fifa decides who will host the 2018 and 2022 tournaments.

 

[Proud2BeCanberran]

http://www.tntmagazine.com/sports/a...lia-s-2022-world-cup-bid-suffers-setback.aspx

This is a blow, but not the be all end all. You'll find Australia has a lot of 2nd choices, but at the same time a fair few first choices. The 2nd choices will come into play in the last few rounds, when you will have various countries already eliminated. Australia, if reports are to be believed, have around 7 votes for the first round. And this, on top of the 2nd choice votes should carry them to the last round. SHOULD.

The US are favourites, however some rumours suggest that the European representatives will vote in favour of an Asian country ahead of them for various reasons... whether this will be Australia or Qatar... who knows?

 

[chefman21]

1) Development of Parramatta as Sydney's 2nd CBD so more workers in Western Sydney are able to work closer to their homes. When the city started out, the current CBD was the geographical heart of the city. Now that's Parramatta. More and more departments of the state government, such as the police, are headquartered in Parramatta. Hopefully that trend continues over the years.

Parramatta, Epping, Hornsby and the like are so, so important. But they seem to get neglected. If we want to host major events, we have to look at some of these as major hubs for a variety of things. A lot of this has to do with rail to be honest. Hornsby is a gateway to Newcastle, Parramatta is a gateway to the west while Epping conveniently links the two together. These need to be developed in such a way they can support major business as well as support population growth. They are the logical next steps to Sydney's growth. I'm assuming the same thing in Melbourne also. These are the ones that need to be looked at immediately for the World Cup.

2) Lightrail. If the government looks into this seriously we could have people able to live 300km's outside of Sydney and still easily work in the city everyday.

I bang on about the importance of a high speed rail link from Brisbane to Melbourne a lot. Part of this is looking at servicing major suburbs and regional centres with high speed rail, while upgrading the current rail system for quick and convenient travel with light rail. This country needs to reduce the tyranny of distance as much as possible and open up areas that previously were unserviceable to people for working in the city. We should be looking at extreme regional centres as just that. Regional centres. A place like Port Macquarie, Coffs Harbour, Kiama and the like should be accessible to people who need to work in the city - whether that be Newcastle, Wollongong or Sydney - and not thought of as a regional centre as it currently is. A place like Cowra, Dubbo, Dalby or Albury-Wodonga should be the new regional. Should we be looking at upgrading local rail for the World Cup, a bit of forethought should be used and have the initial facilities built to handle high speed rail in the future also. We should be using this bid as an excuse for future proofing the country as much as possible.

3) IT. As people get more comfortable with IT hopefully we'll see working people spend more working hours at home instead of clogging up traffic getting to and from work.

This would be ideal, but I think this will be a massive cultural shift for most workers. There are still plenty of people who are nervous about this, or can't see it's benefits and are reluctant to do so. And there is still a couple of generations whose work culture has been you work from work and only work. I honestly can't see it changing for 30-50 years. The broadband network is important for this, but it's actually seeing that change that is the big question. There are big numbers of people who still can't see the benefits of a broadband network.

As for having the population base to support these stadiums. By 2022 we'll be well on our way to 30 million. And because sport is such a central part of Australian life (what other country could support the amount of professional sporting teams we do) there will always be strong demand for sport. If you could buy shares in it, sport would be as safe as banks and mining in terms of the likelihood of strong continued growth.

I think improving what we already have is the way to go initially. We need to get away from the Sydney-centric and Melbourne-centric attitude that comes with an event like this. To save money for the country, we should be looking at upgrading and remodelling existing stadiums as much as possible, before we build shiny new stadiums. And that means ignoring some in Sydney and Melbourne. There are maybe three or four suitable stadiums that could be upgraded in Sydney and the same in Melbourne. And there are some ready to go such as AAMI Park, Skilled, Suncorp and Homebush. If we can upgrade places such as the SFS before building stadiums we will be much better off.

 

[Canard]

Is this League Unlimited or the Urban Planners Institue of Australia website??

 

[chefman21]

Is this League Unlimited or the Urban Planners Institue of Australia website??

Does it matter? Infrastructure and urban planning directly affects all of us and they are all relevant points, opinions and questions about hosting a World Cup, and whether us as a code should get behind the bid. It doesn't have to be and in fact shouldn't be purely about rugby league and how it affects the code, because we as citizens and as a code are directly affected by any infrastructure and investments into the country. If you want to have an informed opinion you need to look at all aspects.

 

[applesauce]

This is a blow, but not the be all end all. You'll find Australia has a lot of 2nd choices, but at the same time a fair few first choices. The 2nd choices will come into play in the last few rounds, when you will have various countries already eliminated. Australia, if reports are to be believed, have around 7 votes for the first round. And this, on top of the 2nd choice votes should carry them to the last round. SHOULD.

The US are favourites, however some rumours suggest that the European representatives will vote in favour of an Asian country ahead of them for various reasons... whether this will be Australia or Qatar... who knows?

Qatar are long shots IMO. The WC will be in the middle of summer over there, 40C+ :shock:

 

[Loudstrat]

Not sure how Blacktown will be a white elephant...

It would be good to have most of the Western Sydney teams play out of one stadium. You would hope that games like Dogs v Eels would be able to sell 40k to regular season matches in 12 years time

Yeah? At a stadium further away for both than Parra or ANZ? No LKeague side would ever use Blacktown. Parra and Penrith would not benefit from playing there, and all other clubs are closer to ANZ and SFS anyway.

Over the long term I'd hope 3 things happen that would help solve some of those problems.

1) Development of Parramatta as Sydney's 2nd CBD so more workers in Western Sydney are able to work closer to their homes. When the city started out, the current CBD was the geographical heart of the city. Now that's Parramatta. More and more departments of the state government, such as the police, are headquartered in Parramatta. Hopefully that trend continues over the years.

Been that way since 1788.

2) Lightrail. If the government looks into this seriously we could have people able to live 300km's outside of Sydney and still easily work in the city everyday.

A f*cking tram will allow people to commute from Taree? :lol:

3) IT. As people get more comfortable with IT hopefully we'll see working people spend more working hours at home instead of clogging up traffic getting to and from work.

As for having the population base to support these stadiums. By 2022 we'll be well on our way to 30 million. And because sport is such a central part of Australian life (what other country could support the amount of professional sporting teams we do) there will always be strong demand for sport. If you could buy shares in it, sport would be as safe as banks and mining in terms of the likelihood of strong continued growth.

The last thing Australia needs is it's big cities to keep growing. Sydney is a choked up ghetto as it is.

Besides, the state govt has no money to pour into upgrading transport for a f*cking soccer tournament.

The best League can get out of this - -part from token improvements - is a new stadium in Townsville. Brisbane has Lang, Sydney has SFS and ANZ. Melbourne has the Rorters Stadium. Other League areas: Gold Coast (the plastic is still on parts of Robina), Newy (new stands under construction) and Canberra (fairly new and serving its purpose). Unless FIFA have plans for Brookie, Kogarah or Leichhardt.

League will get nothing but a massive disruption in 2022 and a lack of sponsors from 2017-2024 a least.

The Olympics was fantastic for Sydney. Improvements to facilities and transport - and ANZ. That aside, League got cosmetic benefits at most - PArra and the SFS were the only grounds used, and swet FA changes occurred. And all the infrastructure was focused on Sydney. Same with the Yawnion WC - League grounds became a promotion for the alternative code. League will get nothing out of Soccer

Is this League Unlimited or the Urban Planners Institute of Australia website??

:lol: Or the Soccer masturbation society.