Five Gone - Confirmed

[Saints Forever]

Both Lawrie and Sele need to add 6-10 kgs of muscle mass and improve their fitness to be regular first graders.

Both have the aggressive nature to make it.

Sele seems to have more errors in him at present.

I believe they will both make it.

 

[AyiosYiorgos]

He had not gone anywhere yet Penrith did make a offer but no decision yet

That is good news. I believe he has great potential and if he stays, will one day be one of our NRL stars.

check out post #50 , last post on page 1

 

[giboz71]

I didn’t mind Sele. Good player and will go well at the Sharks.

But If we had to lose one of Host, Luc, Lawrie or Sele, I would have picked Sele. Doubt we could have kept all of them, there are only so many bench spots. I’m guessing Ford will be the next one given a crack.

Losing one of Lawrie, Host or Luc would have been bigger losses IMO.

 

[BennyV]

I didn’t mind Sele. Good player and will go well at the Sharks.

But If we had to lose one of Host, Luc, Lawrie or Sele, I would have picked Sele. Doubt we could have kept all of them, there are only so many bench spots. I’m guessing Ford will be the next one given a crack.

Losing one of Lawrie, Host or Luc would have been bigger losses IMO.

Why should be have lost any of them? Should have been getting rid of Allgood, Kerr, Latimore well before losing any of these youngsters who could easily fill those spots and build into long term first graders.

Those 4 mentioned are very different styles of players and plug very different gaps in our roster. Sele is the most likely to cover for JDB (closest player we have to him) and would easily build into an impact forward.

Anyway, we’ll see how it all pans out but I’m on record at the start of this year marking Sele as the pick of our young forwards. Hope I’m wrong now.

 

[Old Timer]

Why should be have lost any of them? Should have been getting rid of Allgood, Kerr, Latimore well before losing any of these youngsters who could easily fill those spots and build into long term first graders.

Those 4 mentioned are very different styles of players and plug very different gaps in our roster. Sele is the most likely to cover for JDB (closest player we have to him) and would easily build into an impact forward.

Anyway, we’ll see how it all pans out but I’m on record at the start of this year marking Sele as the pick of our young forwards. Hope I’m wrong now.

This post says it all
Millward doing a great job of keeping pensioners and letting go youth and buying Neville’s.

 

[giboz71]

But why stop a player from getting a FG opportunity elsewhere?

Yes, he would have been a good back up to JDB, but he’s too small for a prop so would have been hard to find a bench spot for him. Luc and Lawrie both showed promise at different times last year and Host has proven to be a great edge forward as well. These 3 are above him as far as bench spots go.

Allgood is unsigned for next year and likely not staying and Kerr still has hope to be something better and we need depth at prop. Latimore earnt another year as he was a consistent bench prop this year.

Still don’t see the problem in letting him go?

 

[getsmarty]

But why stop a player from getting a FG opportunity elsewhere?

Yes, he would have been a good back up to JDB, but he’s too small for a prop so would have been hard to find a bench spot for him. Luc and Lawrie both showed promise at different times last year and Host has proven to be a great edge forward as well. These 3 are above him as far as bench spots go.

Allgood is unsigned for next year and likely not staying and Kerr still has hope to be something better and we need depth at prop. Latimore earnt another year as he was a consistent bench prop this year.

Still don’t see the problem in letting him go?

Exactly right..you can't keep them all...even clubs like the Roosters let some go...problem is they always seem to be able to bring in someone better....

 

[possm]

Exactly right..you can't keep them all...even clubs like the Roosters let some go...problem is they always seem to be able to bring in someone better....

Yes, that's the problem. Millward needs to recruit an extra top grade prop for 2019 and beyond. We need a prop rotation program in an effort to mitigate the fatigue issues we have experienced over the past few years. No fringe first grader, we need a top grade prop.

 

[BennyV]

But why stop a player from getting a FG opportunity elsewhere?

Yes, he would have been a good back up to JDB, but he’s too small for a prop so would have been hard to find a bench spot for him. Luc and Lawrie both showed promise at different times last year and Host has proven to be a great edge forward as well. These 3 are above him as far as bench spots go.

Allgood is unsigned for next year and likely not staying and Kerr still has hope to be something better and we need depth at prop. Latimore earnt another year as he was a consistent bench prop this year.

Still don’t see the problem in letting him go?

Because we are meant to be a professional sports club aiming for success, not a f**king charity organisation developing young players before they gain a start elsewhere.

Graham likely has 1 year left, 2 at most. Latimore is an ok bench prop, at best, with a year or two. Lawrie has shown promise, but no more than Sele did last year. Kerr is the living embodiement of plod. And outside of that, we have no middle forward depth. So not only are we f**ked through SOO if we lose JDB and Vaughan again, but we are f**ked if we cop a single injury to a middle forward, PLUS we now have to recruit again simply to fill the gaps at the end of 2019, when we could have kept a good quality depth player who is likely to develop into a very good first grader in the space of 2 years. There is 100% definite opportunity for him to being playing first grade in 2018 and beyond.

But hey, other clubs deserve players too, right?!

 

[Old Timer]

Because we are meant to be a professional sports club aiming for success, not a f**king charity organisation developing young players before they gain a start elsewhere.

Graham likely has 1 year left, 2 at most. Latimore is an ok bench prop, at best, with a year or two. Lawrie has shown promise, but no more than Sele did last year. Kerr is the living embodiement of plod. And outside of that, we have no middle forward depth. So not only are we f**ked through SOO if we lose JDB and Vaughan again, but we are f**ked if we cop a single injury to a middle forward, PLUS we now have to recruit again simply to fill the gaps at the end of 2019, when we could have kept a good quality depth player who is likely to develop into a very good first grader in the space of 2 years. There is 100% definite opportunity for him to being playing first grade in 2018 and beyond.

But hey, other clubs deserve players too, right?!

All 100% correct and imagine if another club was to lure Frizz, JDB, Sims or Vaughan away from us in the next 2 years and we have Graham & Latimore exiting as well?
Also love it how people don’t rate them as 1st graders or even potential 1st graders at our club but say it is ok for them to go and get a shot at 1st grade at another club which IMO simply magnifies the deficiencies of our coach.

 

[ALSGI]

Because we are meant to be a professional sports club aiming for success, not a f**king charity organisation developing young players before they gain a start elsewhere.

Graham likely has 1 year left, 2 at most. Latimore is an ok bench prop, at best, with a year or two. Lawrie has shown promise, but no more than Sele did last year. Kerr is the living embodiement of plod. And outside of that, we have no middle forward depth. So not only are we f**ked through SOO if we lose JDB and Vaughan again, but we are f**ked if we cop a single injury to a middle forward, PLUS we now have to recruit again simply to fill the gaps at the end of 2019, when we could have kept a good quality depth player who is likely to develop into a very good first grader in the space of 2 years. There is 100% definite opportunity for him to being playing first grade in 2018 and beyond.

But hey, other clubs deserve players too, right?!

Maybe Sele wanted to go?
Maybe he got a better offer st Sharks?
Maybe he could see the he wasn’t going to get a run at Dragons with others ahead of him like Leilua, Lawrie, Host?
Either way, can’t keep ‘em all.
Bagging the clubs recruitment on this when you don’t know the all facts is a bit rich.

 

[giboz71]

Maybe Sele wanted to go?
Maybe he got a better offer st Sharks?
Maybe he could see the he wasn’t going to get a run at Dragons with others ahead of him like Leilua, Lawrie, Host?
Either way, can’t keep ‘em all.
Bagging the clubs recruitment on this when you don’t know the all facts is a bit rich.

Exactly right.

Same nonsense happens every time someone goes. Any chance to bag Millward and recruitment. Who says he won’t be replaced with someone better?

Merrin, Dugan, Packer, Thommo. None of these departures really hurt us.

I doubt Sele will be any different.

 

[Dragonslayer]

Basically we get what the coach thinks we are short in. Millward wobtcrandomly go out and get a prop if McGregor and co dont/cant see the necessity for it.

So obvious, i'm suprised that some cant see that. McGregir will only go with those who have experience in 1st grade those he doesnt need to "coach". McCrone, Latimore, Allgood, Graham and now K. Sims you see the pattern here.

So, if McGregor says he wants a prop with 1st grade experience preferably over 100 games what does Millward do?

Kerr was bought to the club as the NAS clone.
Even Nene was bought in as the Vunivalu equivalent.
Lomax was lucky to get the start he did only on the back of Aitkens injury.

Who knows what our salary cap position is. I keep hearing about Thomos money or Dugans money etc for all we know this was used to upgrade a few contracts, Lomax comes to mind.

Sele, i thought would be a handy back-up player but he was always going to be a back-up. Host, Lawrie and even Kerr were considered over him.
Herbert, with the right coaching could be another Hayne imo especially when ye moved to fb. McGregor could never envisage that.

Yes we (the fans) can see the need for another prop and a speedy backline but McGregor and co see otherwise.

 

[getsmarty]

Yes, that's the problem. Millward needs to recruit an extra top grade prop for 2019 and beyond. We need a prop rotation program in an effort to mitigate the fatigue issues we have experienced over the past few years. No fringe first grader, we need a top grade prop.

We don't have the Third party...yes we need another top line prop...lets see what eventuates...AuMau gone..replaced by K.Sims...Herbert/Garrick & possibly Allgood gone...Millward is always on the look out...2019 will be another transition year for a number of players..eg Graham's final year ? Kerr final year ? etc...so do they sign someone now when they know that a player they are after becomes available at the end of 2019 ?

Its not as simple as people make out...most clubs are looking 3 to 4 years ahead and then players become available at the last minute...let's wait and see.

 

[possm]

Exactly right.

Same nonsense happens every time someone goes. Any chance to bag Millward and recruitment. Who says he won’t be replaced with someone better?

Merrin, Dugan, Packer, Thommo. None of these departures really hurt us.

I doubt Sele will be any different.

We could have and should have kept Packer.

 

[giboz71]

We could have and should have kept Packer.

You don’t think James Graham was a fair replacement, with the Dogs paying a big part of his freight??

Pretty smart move by Millward to me. And it’s not like Packer was a world beater for the the Tigers (when he wasn’t injured).

 

[getsmarty]

We could have and should have kept Packer.

Disagree...tigers paid much bigger dollars and he was out injured for a fair while last season...you keep Packer (on upgraded dollars ) and you lose someone else...Graham has been huge for us...single- handedly influenced our line speed and a big part of why Lawrie and others have improved...you also fail to take into consideration that one of his best mates is Matalino who signed with the tigers. Their families are very close friends and this would also have played a massive part in his decision.

 

[possm]

You don’t think James Graham was a fair replacement, with the Dogs paying a big part of his freight??

Pretty smart move by Millward to me. And it’s not like Packer was a world beater for the the Tigers (when he wasn’t injured).

I'm glad you think Millward is smart. Even with Graham, we were still one good prop short. After Thompson left we definitely had the cap but I feel sure we had the cap before that.

Millward seems to get the simple things done and struggles with more complex negotiations. I'm sure the likes of Bennett, Hasler, Maguire and Toovey could have/would have retained Packer and at the same time brought in Graham. The players we did not need in 2018 were Allgood, Kerr and Sele. There would have been plenty of room for Graham who was being subsidised by the Dogs.

 

[getsmarty]

I'm glad you think Millward is smart. Even with Graham, we were still one good prop short. After Thompson left we definitely had the cap but I feel sure we had the cap before that.

Millward seems to get the simple things done and struggles with more complex negotiations. I'm sure the likes of Bennett, Hasler, Maguire and Toovey could have/would have retained Packer and at the same time brought in Graham. The players we did not need in 2018 were Allgood, Kerr and Sele. There would have been plenty of room for Graham who was being subsidised by the Dogs.

Allowing Thompson to leave kept Leilua here...you can't have it both ways...Leilua was as good as gone to Canberra...you are over simplifying a complex situation...

eg..this year guys like JDB/T.Sims/Vaughan would more than likely have had clauses in their contracts allowing for upgrades due to Rep footy...this means we need to juggle the Roster...

BTW..the Leilua contract was not a "Simple " Thing as you point out...either was getting guys like Hunt here ( Broncos wanted to keep him ) or upgrading Vaughan etc...give credit where it is due...

You are totally wrong about Packer...How did he go this year ??? was he worth the extra 200K or so that the tigers paid ?

Again not as simple as people make out...remember we have one of the lowest Third party in the NRL...are you going to blame Millward for that also ??? I'll leave it at that...

 

[possm]

Allowing Thompson to leave kept Leilua here...you can't have it both ways...Leilua was as good as gone to Canberra...you are over simplifying a complex situation...

eg..this year guys like JDB/T.Sims/Vaughan would more than likely have had clauses in their contracts allowing for upgrades due to Rep footy...this means we need to juggle the Roster...

BTW..the Leilua contract was not a "Simple " Thing as you point out...either was getting guys like Hunt here ( Broncos wanted to keep him ) or upgrading Vaughan etc...give credit where it is due...

You are totally wrong about Packer...How did he go this year ??? was he worth the extra 200K or so that the tigers paid ?

Again not as simple as people make out...remember we have one of the lowest Third party in the NRL...are you going to blame Millward for that also ??? I'll leave it at that...

The reference to Leilua is more about opportunity to play NRL than cap space.
The upgrade of Vaughan was a front load move because we had surplus cap.
SOO bonuses are paid in the following year, so did not effect available cap for 2018.

The extensions of Pereira and Latimore were paid for out of the 2018 cap in order to use left over cap prior to Nov 1, 2018.

So Millwards choice was to do all of the above or to retain a first grade prop in Packer. History tells us he should have chosen to retain Packer.
Vaughan - clearly over worked and busted
Packer - Could have shouldered a lot of the heavy work
Graham - Comes on for Vaughan
Ah Mau - Comes on for Packer

Latimore - ISP
Laurie - ISP

No prop burn out with this rotation.