Five Gone - Confirmed

[BennyV]

I'm not saying Herbert and Sele aren't good players but they are not vying for the positions Latimore and Pereira are occupying. Sele is a backup lock but we already have Lawrie and Ford looks like he could fill the role soon. Herbert should have been given a run in first grade this year his position is centre or fullback. I dont think he is going to be a star though and we should try to find a real hot shot eg Ponga, Cotrick, Ramien type young player.

Lawrie is a prop, he doesn’t have the stamina, defence or ball skills that Sele brings to the position. He should be in Latimores position with Sele as the backup lock (or bench impact).

Ford is an edge backrower, he is a line-runner and a hole-hitter, just like Host. Completely different role.

And while it’s nice to say that we should go for a Ponga/Ramien/Cotric, we haven’t and unless we sign a gun, all we are left with is less outside backs depth for 2019 with no gain.

 

[Carlton]

Lawrie is a prop, he doesn’t have the stamina, defence or ball skills that Sele brings to the position. He should be in Latimores position with Sele as the backup lock (or bench impact).



Ford is an edge backrower, he is a line-runner and a hole-hitter, just like Host. Completely different role.

And while it’s nice to say that we should go for a Ponga/Ramien/Cotric, we haven’t and unless we sign a gun, all we are left with is less outside backs depth for 2019 with no gain.

I think that Lawrie as a backup can cover Prop and Lock better than Sele and Ford could backup Second row and Lock. This means Sele may be nice to have but there are options that can cover his role and if we are looking at players we need to free up numbers from the top 30.

You are right about what we should do and what we actually end up doing. But in an ideal world the Cotrick, Ponga, Ramien outside backs are what we should be looking for and signing. I dont know whether we are looking at gun outside backs or not, I hope we are. To be able to sign those upgrade players we again need to free numbers from the 30, we cant keep them all.

 

[BennyV]

I think that Lawrie as a backup can cover Prop and Lock better than Sele and Ford could backup Second row and Lock. This means Sele may be nice to have but there are options that can cover his role and if we are looking at players we need to free up numbers from the top 30.

You are right about what we should do and what we actually end up doing. But in an ideal world the Cotrick, Ponga, Ramien outside backs are what we should be looking for and signing. I dont know whether we are looking at gun outside backs or not, I hope we are. To be able to sign those upgrade players we again need to free numbers from the 30, we cant keep them all.

Agree to disagree. Ford is several years away from first grade in a completely different from with a different skill set. Ford/Host, Lawrie and are like Friz, Merrin and JDB respectively, and we should be keeping them all and developing them through over ageing plodders.
But again, why aren’t we content to lose the young backups with big futures and instead keep the 30+ year old never-was’s that wouldn’t be considered by the actual competitive teams?

Herbert may not be the next Cotric but he could easily be a Dean Whare quality player, which is still great, if we had the coaching staff to develop skills. But why are we happy to let him go and extend guys like Perriera who have reached their peak?!

And why are the fans content with this?! We should be more ambitious!

 

[Old Timer]

I think that Lawrie as a backup can cover Prop and Lock better than Sele and Ford could backup Second row and Lock. This means Sele may be nice to have but there are options that can cover his role and if we are looking at players we need to free up numbers from the top 30.

You are right about what we should do and what we actually end up doing. But in an ideal world the Cotrick, Ponga, Ramien outside backs are what we should be looking for and signing. I dont know whether we are looking at gun outside backs or not, I hope we are. To be able to sign those upgrade players we again need to free numbers from the 30, we cant keep them all.

The flaw in your argument is that by releasing Sele, Garrick & Herbert we have only freed up small change whilst we have kept plodders who are on similar money of not more and will not deliver a premiership as their used by dates are up long ago.
The notion that Nicholls, Latimore & Allgood on old tired legs and little ability are better value to keep than youth who have been restricted due to coaching deficiencies is ridiculous.
We attract the Nicholls, Latimore, Allgood type player as we are tolerant of a coach that can't develop or in fact find out how good / bad our own youthful prospects really are and when we release them some fans support the assertion that they will not make it which has never been determined correctly.

 

[Carlton]

Agree to disagree. Ford is several years away from first grade in a completely different from with a different skill set. Ford/Host, Lawrie and are like Friz, Merrin and JDB respectively, and we should be keeping them all and developing them through over ageing plodders.
But again, why aren’t we content to lose the young backups with big futures and instead keep the 30+ year old never-was’s that wouldn’t be considered by the actual competitive teams?

Herbert may not be the next Cotric but he could easily be a Dean Whare quality player, which is still great, if we had the coaching staff to develop skills. But why are we happy to let him go and extend guys like Perriera who have reached their peak?!

And why are the fans content with this?! We should be more ambitious!

BennyV its been a pleasure talking about this with you without any agro. I can see what you are saying but I have a slightly different view on how we get to where we need to be (that doesnt mean its right).

The thing I agree 100% with you is that we should not be settling for mediocre, any player movement should be to strengthen the squad and we should be targeting the best players we can.

 

[BennyV]

BennyV its been a pleasure talking about this with you without any agro. I can see what you are saying but I have a slightly different view on how we get to where we need to be (that doesnt mean its right).

The thing I agree 100% with you is that we should not be settling for mediocre, any player movement should be to strengthen the squad and we should be targeting the best players we can.

Absolutely.

And in saying all that, the #1 change to be made to get where we need to be is a complete clean sweep of our football staff, particularly coaching and development personnel. Unless we can identify, nurture, develop and get the best out of our personnel, we are forever going to be also rans. There’s no shock when considering then big difference between 2009-2011 and the rest of the joint venture era...

 

[giboz71]

Mole confirming Nene gone also.

 

[Carlton]

The flaw in your argument is that by releasing Sele, Garrick & Herbert we have only freed up small change whilst we have kept plodders who are on similar money of not more and will not deliver a premiership as their used by dates are up long ago.
The notion that Nicholls, Latimore & Allgood on old tired legs and little ability are better value to keep than youth who have been restricted due to coaching deficiencies is ridiculous.
We attract the Nicholls, Latimore, Allgood type player as we are tolerant of a coach that can't develop or in fact find out how good / bad our own youthful prospects really are and when we release them some fans support the assertion that they will not make it which has never been determined correctly.

OT I haven't commented on keeping Nicholls, Latimore or Allgood, my comments are not based around cap and player values. What I am saying is that we are limited to 30 players and if we are going to strengthen the squad then some of them have to go. To say Sele and Garrick were not tried is untrue and in Garricks case in particular has not shown anything. The one I would have liked to have had a run in firsts was Herbert.

Of the three older players you mention I believe keeping Latimore was the right decision (as a backup prop). We didn't let a prop go to keep him and we are short a prop even with him.

 

[Dragonslayer]

I think Sele abd Herbert should have been at least offered contracts.

Borh are looking for more permanent 1st grade same as Mann if he leaves.

Herbert is the more interesting one for me. Yes his defense is a little suspect but you cant deny his attackkng ability. Maybe they saw him as another Aitken clone, strong attack weak defense. TBH whilst I like Periera, Herbert should have gotten a start, even if just 1 game.

 

[JDHD]

I’ve never rated Sele or Garrick, and Herbert was excellent in ISP but that’s never a guarantee. It may have come down to Lomax or Garrick and Herbert, and if that’s the case then there’s no choice.

 

[denis preston]

One thing is for sure for all the players that have left surely we can get one gun outside back. Surely the Fijian flyer and the Broncos reserve grader are not the final options to replace the players we have let go ? ( particularly now that Macdonald has gone )

 

[Old Timer]

OT I haven't commented on keeping Nicholls, Latimore or Allgood, my comments are not based around cap and player values. What I am saying is that we are limited to 30 players and if we are going to strengthen the squad then some of them have to go. To say Sele and Garrick were not tried is untrue and in Garricks case in particular has not shown anything. The one I would have liked to have had a run in firsts was Herbert.

Of the three older players you mention I believe keeping Latimore was the right decision (as a backup prop). We didn't let a prop go to keep him and we are short a prop even with him.

Crush
I do understand you have not commented on Nicholls etc my point was that letting go young legs in favour of old legs and then buying cast offs to replace the youth is a flawed mentality.
We have just lost Nene and we have signed Pearson, The Fijian Sensation and Saab whilst extending Perreira and no big signing in sight.
Our outside backs going from pedestrian to extremely ordinary very quickly.

 

[possm]

To me it seems Millward is always taking a punt. I would not go that way because the success of the Dragons is a very serious thing for me.

Why not just fill the 17 with good proven first graders first and then back fill with the best depth we can find; our juniors or from outside the club. Makes sense to me!

 

[Carlton]

Crush
I do understand you have not commented on Nicholls etc my point was that letting go young legs in favour of old legs and then buying cast offs to replace the youth is a flawed mentality.
We have just lost Nene and we have signed Pearson, The Fijian Sensation and Saab whilst extending Perreira and no big signing in sight.
Our outside backs going from pedestrian to extremely ordinary very quickly.

OT we haven't bought cast offs to replace young legs at this stage. No older back up player has been bought.

We lacked speed and have bought two speedsters to replace two young players who have not done anything in first grade yet. Nicholls, Latimore, Pereira are all a part of the squad in 2018, should we keep them? depends what their role is and what other players we sign.

If we sign a proper replacement for Nene then we are not too different to this year in the outside backs. Just with a bit more speed in ISP. I think the biggest worry is Aitken being picked over Lomax who is sent back to ISP.

 

[possm]

OT we haven't bought cast offs to replace young legs at this stage. No older back up player has been bought.

We lacked speed and have bought two speedsters to replace two young players who have not done anything in first grade yet. Nicholls, Latimore, Pereira are all a part of the squad in 2018, should we keep them? depends what their role is and what other players we sign.

If we sign a proper replacement for Nene then we are not too different to this year in the outside backs. Just with a bit more speed in ISP. I think the biggest worry is Aitken being picked over Lomax who is sent back to ISP.

The biggest worry is picking Aitken FULL STOP.

 

[Old Timer]

OT we haven't bought cast offs to replace young legs at this stage. No older back up player has been bought.

We lacked speed and have bought two speedsters to replace two young players who have not done anything in first grade yet. Nicholls, Latimore, Pereira are all a part of the squad in 2018, should we keep them? depends what their role is and what other players we sign.

If we sign a proper replacement for Nene then we are not too different to this year in the outside backs. Just with a bit more speed in ISP. I think the biggest worry is Aitken being picked over Lomax who is sent back to ISP.

The problem IMO is we are retaining old legs and giving them contract extensions.
What we have let go we needs to be replaced with big upgrades but what we have retained or signed is nowhere near an upgrade.
If weren't good enough this year then we certainly will not be better off for letting players go without upgrading them.
People getting their rocks of on Perreira just astounds me.
He did a job as well as he could do it when called upon and was very professional in doing it but he is certainly not a starting NRL winger for any club with premiership aspirations but in this place people think he is.

 

[TomRedVRiver]

Just a heads up for everyone... Pearson is a pretty good pick up for us. Only reason he hasn't had more of a crack yet is because of Oates and Isaako.

For the record, most Broncos fans wanted Isaako at fullback, Boyd and centre and Pearson on the wing.

 

[Carlton]

The problem IMO is we are retaining old legs and giving them contract extensions.
What we have let go we needs to be replaced with big upgrades but what we have retained or signed is nowhere near an upgrade.
If weren't good enough this year then we certainly will not be better off for letting players go without upgrading them.
People getting their rocks of on Perreira just astounds me.
He did a job as well as he could do it when called upon and was very professional in doing it but he is certainly not a starting NRL winger for any club with premiership aspirations but in this place people think he is.

I understand what your worries are OT and I dont think Perreira is the first grade winger we need but as an ISP backup he is great. Ravalawa and Pearson actually look like upgrades but time will tell and if they aren't then good bye and we sign the next lot of promising young players.

I agree that we need a top flight outside back but I think the biggest weakness is not wing its fullback and this is where we need to look.

 

[aquiin]

Herbert may not be the next Cotric but he could easily be a Dean Whare quality player, which is still great, if we had the coaching staff to develop skills. But why are we happy to let him go and extend guys like Perriera who have reached their peak?!

I don’t see the comparison with Whare, not a defensive centre by any definition and not the same skills as an attacking centre. Herbert showed something a little out of the box when he was shifted to fullback. Before that he had some up and down performances and hadn’t shown the same ability as 2016.

Also worth mentioning that before his serious leg injury, Whare was the outstanding centre prospect (a la Lomax). He has shown plenty but never regained the acceleration he had. And he was playing in much stronger competitions than what we have now. ISP is a really ordinary standard. Depth in talent overall is way down versus even 5 years ago.

Pereira showed quite a bit more than expected in the Souths final. I don’t think anyone would expect Herbert to diffuse those attacking kicks. But really this analysis done on the club, needs to be done on the Warriors or whoever else signs the player. There seems to be greater need there from what I can see.

 

[nontime111]

I dunno with all the neg, I get a very good feeling abou the Fijian flyer, as for Pearson he has some big raps on him I think theyre both clearly good buys