Forward passes

[Card Shark]

Here is a diagram to demonstrate how impossible it is to run at full speed and throw the ball so it is not going forward.

(Not sure if the image is working. The sine of the angle that a ball is passed at multiplied by the speed of the pass, has to equal the player's forward running speed for the ball to not go forward).

I did some rough timing from the Eels match, when Jennings made the break leading to the first Eels try (ironically disputed by Roosters fans for a forward pass).

He was running at about 8 metres/second.

I timed some passes as well. A regular pass seems to be passed at about 10 metres per second.

So Jennings would have to pass the ball back at an angle of (Theta = sin^-1 8/10) 53 degrees for it to not travel forward.

To give you an idea of how ridiculous an angle that is if we required it from a team, if the players were spread the width of the field, and the far winger was in their corner, and the ball was played on the opposite edge, it would have to be played 90 metres in front of the far winger for the team to maintain that angle (68 metres times tan 53 degrees).

So those who want all passes ruled forward if the ball travels forward, to run at good speed and "compensate" with a deep backline, the backline has to be set 90 metres deep. Or play has to not go the width of the field, or players have to not be running fast when passing. Any of those is patently ridiculous (players not running when passing, not using the width of the field for a passing play, or setting the attacking line 90 metres deep) and would ruin the game as we know it.

If you are arguing anything other than the rule as it is, you clearly are just being obtuse or wilfully ignorant.

Geez mate, that's a pretty intense post there but I like it.

For me to determine what's forward & what's not when 2 players are running (passer slightly in front), if the passer is still in front of the catcher when it is caught, the ball has been passed back, relative to the passer.

 

[GAZF]

It's the rules mate, rules that have been worked out for 110 years, to distinguish a fair pass.

Until we come up with a GPS means of determining forward or back, it's up to a refs interpretation & they don't get it wrong as much as some think.

If you don't like the rule, go follow America Football that permits forward passes. Then you'll have nothing to complain about.

Tunnel ball seems more up his/her alley.

 

[Life's Good]

I'm on my phone, auto-correct f**ks up sometimes. If your really that concerned about a spelling error then that's your problem not mine

*you're

 

[The_Shield]

So I'm very interested to know what all you experts think of the Tom Trbojevic pass from last night. Forward or good?

 

[veggiepatch1959]

"But....but sir. It wasn't forward....it was a banana pass".

 

[wibble]

Geez mate, that's a pretty intense post there but I like it.

Well others have tried videos, common sense, an appeal to the history of the game etc but some are staying wilfully ignorant.

I thought that some basic trigonometry would show people that it is impossible to change the forward pass rule without fundamentally destroying the game, but apparently those ignorant ones aren't interested in maths. Who'd have thunk?

For me to determine what's forward & what's not when 2 players are running (passer slightly in front), if the passer is still in front of the catcher when it is caught, the ball has been passed back, relative to the passer.

And that is pretty much the best determinant, as judging the actual angle the ball is passed at is very tough.

If you pass it to someone running behind you, and they don't have to suddenly speed up or lunge forward, the pass was probably good.

Though this often causes people to think a pass is forward when the player who passes the ball slows/falls/ is tackled as soon as they pass it, but generally it is the best thing to go by.

I know Dannyt and others have tried to explain the maths of this to The_Shield in other threads, but if some of the groupies can at least see that no one has a reasonable explanation of how you could play the game with passes that go forward compared to the ground getting ruled forward, they might stop and think about how silly their views are (not likely, but worth a try...).

 

[Amin Yashed]

So I'm very interested to know what all you experts think of the Tom Trbojevic pass from last night. Forward or good?

Forward

 

[The_Shield]

Forward

My point exactly

 

[TheDMC]

I'll stop when people call forward passes forward or when they stop complaining about those same passes because they went forward eg. the Trbojevic pass tonight

Rather than try and reinvent the laws of physics, why don't you just focus on the actual problem: The refs are absolutely shitehouse.

 

[kdalymc]

It's like when you throw an apple at some dumb prick out the bus window. You have to throw it like 10m early to allow for momentum of bus, otherwise you hit some other poor bastard

 

[mxlegend99]

My point exactly

Except his pass is forward because he never even attempted to pass backwards. It was forward out of the hands.

Thats not the same as a player throwing the ball backwards to a player in support. If the player passes it backwards out of his hands. He has done all he needs to do to stick to the rule book.

The rules allow for physics. Your definition of a forward pass is f**king stupid and would make the game near impossible to play. Not only would players need to almost turnaround while running at pace to pass a ball with enough strength that it ends up behind where it is thrown. Support would have to stay 10+ metres back to be certain they are behind where the ball was thrown.

Fullbacks would love it in defence though. They never get an overlap situation. They go for the guy woth the ball. If he passes he has time to tackle tge receiver. He could pick off the whole team.

 

[POPEYE]

The Forward Pass Thread should be made a 'Sticky', time to have it removed as a chicane

 

[rockcod]

Hey sheild, can you please post up a video for example of an acceptable pass according to your rules which involves 2 players running at full pace passing cross field at least 10m

 

[myrrh ken]

I don't think its impossible to pass backwards. The ones in the Total Rugby video were all forward - but that's rugby rules.

Someone who did the maths earlier on didn't take into account spin

Here's one that's backwards, or flat at least.

 

[2010Dragons]

Why can't the Bunker rule on forward passes ?

What are the sideline “ornaments” Officials: Brett Suttor, Phil Henderson looking at when a forward pass it thrown 1 metre in front them ?

Do these sideline ornaments with painted on eyes get paid to just wave a flag and generally be incompetent?


If the NRL want the fans to attend games and support the NRL, then these two incompetent sideline ornaments Brett Suttor, Phil Henderson must be sacked.

Referees: Gerard Sutton, Chris Butler should be dropped to the lower grades as well.

 

[Front-Rower]

Why can't the Bunker rule on forward passes ?

The video ref used to be able to officate on forward passes however it was deemed to difficult to adjudicate on due to camera angles. I remember back in the good old days video refs taking an age to make a decision on forward passes that it would make the current video refs look super-human.

 

[Front-Rower]

I know it's union but some of these passes would be play on in the NRL, espcially the pass at 1.07 mins

 

[POPEYE]

A thousand sideline eyes sitting stationary will always have the advantage over linesmen trying to keep up while players block their view, expecting them to get forward passes right is like expecting players not to get passes wrong.

If the video ref can clearly distinguish that a player throws a pass while the receiver is in front of him, in the same way as offside is adjudicated from a kick let them grow enough balls to say so

 

[Front-Rower]

If the video ref can clearly distinguish that a player throws a pass while the receiver is in front of him, in the same way as offside is adjudicated from a kick let them grow enough balls to say so

It should be classed as offside in your example should it not? That's not ruling on a forward pass that is ruling on a player being in front of the play touching the ball as they have not retreated back the required distance. In this instance it doesn't matter if the ball is thrown backwards or forwards.

 

[TheVelourFog]

I'm happy for the borderline ones to be let go, because they will be called wrong as often as they are called right.

Pretty much like in union