Game day round 9 V Warriors

[Vasilevsky]

The reason it gets discussed is because you continually lead the conversation to these inevitable conclusions.

Really? Then look back in this thread and tell me who brought up the subject.

I remember full well when I first encountered your less than conciliatory style of posting when I suggested Benji wasn't a half and you bombarded me and everyone else with the endless Widdop bagging and Benji comparisons.

I now note that you want Benji at 5/8 and McCrone at half so thank god after all this time you too have worked out Benji is not a half back which is an entirely different conversation as to whether Widdop is playing well or not.

5/8 is Benji's best position. No question. He played halfback last year and was one of the best in the competition. According to Dally M points, try assists and line break assists. Considering he had to carry an absolutely useless 5/8 for every game but one, he did very well. Yesterday was more of the same s**t. Though it wasn't as though Benji was really good it was just Widdop was once again absolutely f**king useless so Benji looked very good.

Nice to see that you have not changed your style because when you are copping a bit of stick on the forum you love to go back to all your political posturing because you run out of puff just like our first grade team.

Was I copping stick? Okay, I didn't realize but I will take your word for it and hope it makes you feel better.

Lenin said: Many people would rather be ruined by praise than saved by criticism.

 

[Willow]

The thing is, posters like Vas, Ruby, coastie etc sometimes make good points. But they often ruin their argument by making ridiculous points. All part of the circus.

The good news is that I'm back on topic.

 

[coast_dragons]

At least if your going to include me it would be nice to use my name I at least will give you the respect and use yours.

 

[Vasilevsky]

The thing is, posters like Vas, Ruby, coastie etc sometimes make good points. But they often ruin their argument by making ridiculous points. All part of the circus.

The good news is that I'm back on topic.

Well I guess that given you are guest moderator, that makes you the final arbiter on all that ridiculous and isn't. At least I'm sure that is the way you see it

 

[Dragonslayer]

So... about the game...

I saw some great forward movement early on and Packer almost scored a brilliant forward's try on the back of some excellent stuff up the middle.

Plus I thought we were pretty hard done by in the first half, the video reffing and obstruction rule has completely lost the plot imo. But we tried... best described as being desperately close to scoring on a number of occasions.

But... second half was frustrating. Clearly the boys are not there for the full 80... no sustainable plan B, and a lack of full time structure in attack.

Sorry for going off topic.

3 positive things that did come out of that game:
1: Packer really tries hard every run and shows gritty determination but he cant do it alone.
2: I thought Benji had an alright game for his 1st one back, nice interplay with Widdop to get KFFL in the corner, and his no try was nice, good to see some footwork and dash.
3: Aitkin is one of our future stars, good try (well maybe it was) and defends well.

3 negative things that were enhanced during that game:
1: We are only a 40 min team
2: We lack the basic functionalities that go with attacking football.
3: There is no plan B (is there actually a plan A other than defence?)

3 things that need to happen:
1: The board or whoever need to determine if Mary has the support of the playing group
2: Mary needs to admit his coaching style is 6 years in the past and he needs help.
3: The recruitment /retention staff need to determine who is staying and who is going and cut them loose sooner rather than later. Then look to assembling a playing group that is proud to wear the Red V (or the Illawarra shirt) and play for it.

There are many, many steps to repair our team, this would be a small step to start with.

 

[Willow]

At least if your going to include me it would be nice to use my name

I don't know your name. But how would you like me to address you in future?

I at least will give you the respect and use yours.

Call me anything you like.

 

[TruSaint]

3 positive things that did come out of that game:
1: Packer really tries hard every run and shows gritty determination but he cant do it alone.
2: I thought Benji had an alright game for his 1st one back, nice interplay with Widdop to get KFFL in the corner, and his no try was nice, good to see some footwork and dash.
3: Aitkin is one of our future stars, good try (well maybe it was) and defends well.

3 negative things that were enhanced during that game:
1: We are only a 40 min team
2: We lack the basic functionalities that go with attacking football.
3: There is no plan B (is there actually a plan A other than defence?)

3 things that need to happen:
1: The board or whoever need to determine if Mary has the support of the playing group
2: Mary needs to admit his coaching style is 6 years in the past and he needs help.
3: The recruitment /retention staff need to determine who is staying and who is going and cut them loose sooner rather than later. Then look to assembling a playing group that is proud to wear the Red V (or the Illawarra shirt) and play for it.

There are many, many steps to repair our team, this would be a small step to start with.

Fair post indeed.

Packer was our best forward, Benji played well in both defence and attack. I thought in the 1st half we looked sharp at times, and had a few calls go against us.

2nd half is where i started to lose faith. Down by 8 against a second tier NZ team, we had no answers at all.

Cant sugar coat this anymore, I like Mary, but we are devoid of ideas / creativity.

 

[Willow]

3 positive things that did come out of that game:
1: Packer really tries hard every run and shows gritty determination but he cant do it alone.
2: I thought Benji had an alright game for his 1st one back, nice interplay with Widdop to get KFFL in the corner, and his no try was nice, good to see some footwork and dash.
3: Aitkin is one of our future stars, good try (well maybe it was) and defends well.

3 negative things that were enhanced during that game:
1: We are only a 40 min team
2: We lack the basic functionalities that go with attacking football.
3: There is no plan B (is there actually a plan A other than defence?)

3 things that need to happen:
1: The board or whoever need to determine if Mary has the support of the playing group
2: Mary needs to admit his coaching style is 6 years in the past and he needs help.
3: The recruitment /retention staff need to determine who is staying and who is going and cut them loose sooner rather than later. Then look to assembling a playing group that is proud to wear the Red V (or the Illawarra shirt) and play for it.

There are many, many steps to repair our team, this would be a small step to start with.

Can't fault any of that 'slayer.

On a side point, and related to your last point about wearing the jersey, can someone tell me why the Club's marketing department isn't in tune with the local markets?

I refer to the recent games in NZ and the Gold Coast.

From a marketing angle, it made no sense. Both the Gold Coast and Auckland have strong St George followings. The locals in both cities call us St George. The NZ commentators call us St George. On the Gold Coast, they even had 'St George Dragons' on the ticketek tickets - true, I have mine to prove it.

And yet, the Club makes the decision to wear a jersey that is totally indifferent to the local market.

The Red V of St George is the greatest brand we have, and well known to interstate and international followings. For a club that insists on treating us like customers you'd think they'd understand how to play to their strengths in this regard.

They promote the all red jersey when we play against Canberra and that's fully understandable, but don't seem to get it when it comes to the Red V.

 

[Dragons 09]

Interesting to see some of the posters here who had us firmly entrenched in the 8 after this weekend and took me and others to task through the week for criticising the coach, are finally starting to see the light. I'm not being a smart ass, none of us want to believe our season is lost, again. But if the eternal optimists are starting to see Mary for what he is, hopefully those who can do something about it are actually starting to see where this is going to end up if something is not done soon.

As for the game itself, it was just more of the same. They boys go out with true commitment, try to execute Mary's game plan (still haven't work out what it is yet), the game plan doesn't work, team gets frustrated and drops their bundle and end up looking like a bush team after a heavy night on the piss.

Dugan to centre?.......nice to see Mal and Laurie having an influence on our team selections.

Rein starting off the bench? Why? Because it worked for Packer so master coach thought he was on to a winning formula and thought if he did it with Rein he would get similar results.....clueless.

Quinlan, why? Because Mal and Laurie wanted Duges to have a run at centre so Mary had to find himself a fullback..........master coach should have put the team first and told Mal and Laurie to keep their noses out of our team.........weak.

Just wondering what the next installment will bring us, it gets more embarrassing and comical the longer it goes on. FFS, this club was once great, feared and revered by every team and their respective supporters, now we are the laughing stock of the NRL and the Goons at the helm continue with the emu principal and blame everyone except themselves.

End of rant for this week, to be repeated in 2 weeks time.

 

[coast_dragons]

I rather you leave me out of anything you post thanks Willow.

I was told a few years ago when Mary was coaching in the Illawarra that players didn't have alot of time for him and at the time i thought maybe it was a bit of bitterness but i see now that may not have been the case.

He won't stand down he has to much of an ego for that and they won't or maybe they can't sack him and i not sure on that point but its clear the players are not responding to whatever he is doing.

If they are trying being coached the way they are playing then its very clear he has no idea. The thing is these are professional players are they to frightened to go against the grain and try something its not like he's going to drop them.

Are Hornby and Young any real help with coaching and at the moment i'd say no as the attitude of the team is poor and both guys always playing with alot of pride
and sorry to say this team has little.

Something is seriously wrong but does Doust and Cp actually care do they see they are losing fans the membership numbers are down surely that puts up a red flag.

 

[Dragonslayer]

Can't fault any of that 'slayer.

On a side point, and related to your last point about wearing the jersey, can someone tell me why the Club's marketing department isn't in tune with the local markets?

I refer to the recent games in NZ and the Gold Coast.

From a marketing angle, it made no sense. Both the Gold Coast and Auckland have strong St George followings. The locals in both cities call us St George. The NZ commentators call us St George. On the Gold Coast, they even had 'St George Dragons' on the ticketek tickets - true, I have mine to prove it.

And yet, the Club makes the decision to wear a jersey that is totally indifferent to the local market.

The Red V of St George is the greatest brand we have, and well known to interstate and international followings. For a club that insists on treating us like customers you'd think they'd understand how to play to their strengths in this regard.

They promote the all red jersey when we play against Canberra and that's fully understandable, but don't seem to get it when it comes to the Red V.

Yeah I couldn't understand why we ran out in the Illawarra shirt yesterday..............was it a ploy to convince Gordon to part with his $$$$ maybe? Young Host said in the after game interview it had been his dream to play for St George, what a disappointment it would have been to get the nod and be handed your Illawarra shirt (he's already played for the Cutters I believe who wear a similar red shirt), and now when will he get another opportunity to wear the Big Red V or will he get snapped up by some other club who can recognise talent?

 

[blacksafake]

I rather you leave me out of anything you post thanks Willow.

I was told a few years ago when Mary was coaching in the Illawarra that players didn't have alot of time for him and at the time i thought maybe it was a bit of bitterness but i see now that may not have been the case.

He won't stand down he has to much of an ego for that and they won't or maybe they can't sack him and i not sure on that point but its clear the players are not responding to whatever he is doing.

If they are trying being coached the way they are playing then its very clear he has no idea. The thing is these are professional players are they to frightened to go against the grain and try something its not like he's going to drop them.

Are Hornby and Young any real help with coaching and at the moment i'd say no as the attitude of the team is poor and both guys always playing with alot of pride
and sorry to say this team has little.

Something is seriously wrong but does Doust and Cp actually care do they see they are losing fans the membership numbers are down surely that puts up a red flag.

Doust & co don't give 2 hoots as long as their positions are safe & in Doust's case he is teflon

 

[Willow]

I rather you leave me out of anything you post thanks Willow.

I'll try but not sure if I can post the way you want me to.

 

[Willow]

Interesting to see some of the posters here who had us firmly entrenched in the 8 after this weekend and took me and others to task through the week for criticising the coach, are finally starting to see the light. I'm not being a smart ass, none of us want to believe our season is lost, again. But if the eternal optimists are starting to see Mary for what he is, hopefully those who can do something about it are actually starting to see where this is going to end up if something is not done soon.

As for the game itself, it was just more of the same. They boys go out with true commitment, try to execute Mary's game plan (still haven't work out what it is yet), the game plan doesn't work, team gets frustrated and drops their bundle and end up looking like a bush team after a heavy night on the piss.

Dugan to centre?.......nice to see Mal and Laurie having an influence on our team selections.

Rein starting off the bench? Why? Because it worked for Packer so master coach thought he was on to a winning formula and thought if he did it with Rein he would get similar results.....clueless.

Quinlan, why? Because Mal and Laurie wanted Duges to have a run at centre so Mary had to find himself a fullback..........master coach should have put the team first and told Mal and Laurie to keep their noses out of our team.........weak.

Just wondering what the next installment will bring us, it gets more embarrassing and comical the longer it goes on. FFS, this club was once great, feared and revered by every team and their respective supporters, now we are the laughing stock of the NRL and the Goons at the helm continue with the emu principal and blame everyone except themselves.

End of rant for this week, to be repeated in 2 weeks time.

Good post.

The sudden backflip from Saints to place best our best fullback into the centres again spoke volumes. It appears to be a case of looking after business.

As for being in the top eight....

Coming 7th or 8th is not a successful season imo. The fact that some folks see it as successful is quite possibly the reason why we find ourselves in this situation.

To my knowledge, the term 'acceptance of mediocrity' was first coined on this forum some 9 years ago, at the end of 2007, when we finished 13th.

The Club tried to shine the crap with the statement that we were "only two wins outside of the top eight."

What they neglected to mention was that we were one loss away from the wooden spoon.

To me, this was the start of the rot. Never before had I seen the Club think that finishing around the half way mark was a good thing. This acceptance of mediocrity went away for a brief while under Bennett but it has since come back with a vengeance.

It's all about attitude, and we were on a slide. Price became the scapegoat and after that all McGregor had to do was get back into 'top eight' contention and presumably all would be forgiven.

Nowadays, it's a brave fan who dares to hope for a top 4 spot. I even saw one fellow supporter being ridiculed for sharing that thought. That's how far we we have sunk.

But we can turn this around, we just need the attitude and the will... and perhaps a touch of civil disobedience.

 

[Old Timer]

The continual effort of the NRL to expand our game is the root of the problems for most clubs.

We are not alone in what is happening but of course we want things to be better for the mighty Dragons and not be too worried for the rest.

In simple terms far too many Sydney clubs trying to compete against 1 team clubs from major cities and those Sydney clubs without a rich benefactor are ultimately doomed.

The continued expansion and the wrecking of the 2nd and 3rd grade competitions coupled with the demise of junior football has seen what is now a small pool of really talented players and coaching staff congregating at the wealthier clubs.

To top it all off the NRL has seen fit to force some clubs to play away from their "tribal" homes and the fan base is disintegrating around those clubs.

For the game to survive it needs to shrink not expand but the NRL is not about to let that happen as TV rights keeps them all in cosy employment.

The way forward for the Dragons is not easy and like the budget repair the government is trying to do it is some way off before there is any light at the end of the tunnel.

The answer for us IMO is within our junior development programme but unless we are willing to take the hit in results whilst the juniors learn their trade we will never end up being overly successful.

Last but not least we the fans with the high level expectation also need to rethink and get a longer term vision rather than the myopic approach that we must have results tomorrow.

An attractive style of football is what we all yearn for and unfortunately we seem to be set in stone with a rigid philosophy of picking up journey men who may keep us in and around the 8 with no real chance of success and boring us to death in the process.

I feel very sorry for the younger passionate supporters who have only heard the great stories of this once magnificent club lets all hope the phoenix can rise from the ashes.

 

[Objective View]

Can't fault any of that 'slayer.

On a side point, and related to your last point about wearing the jersey, can someone tell me why the Club's marketing department isn't in tune with the local markets?

I refer to the recent games in NZ and the Gold Coast.

From a marketing angle, it made no sense. Both the Gold Coast and Auckland have strong St George followings. The locals in both cities call us St George. The NZ commentators call us St George. On the Gold Coast, they even had 'St George Dragons' on the ticketek tickets - true, I have mine to prove it.

And yet, the Club makes the decision to wear a jersey that is totally indifferent to the local market.

The Red V of St George is the greatest brand we have, and well known to interstate and international followings. For a club that insists on treating us like customers you'd think they'd understand how to play to their strengths in this regard.

They promote the all red jersey when we play against Canberra and that's fully understandable, but don't seem to get it when it comes to the Red V.

The red jersey should only be worn 4 times a year. In Wollongong.

Straight Shooter

 

[Get2dachopper!]

Well obviously you know better than me. As far as I know the Russians have never occupied Hungary. Maybe for a week or two when chasing Napoleon back to France but as far as I knew they main bulk of the forces moved through present day Germany and Austria.



I'm glad you homies are taking an interest in the history of the Soviet Union though if you want to impress me you would have to carefully read through large amounts of this.

Wow, there's a hell of a lot of reading there. Maybe one day when I'm retired.
Russia occupied Hungary from 1945 to 1989.

 

[Get2dachopper!]

The continual effort of the NRL to expand our game is the root of the problems for most clubs.

We are not alone in what is happening but of course we want things to be better for the mighty Dragons and not be too worried for the rest.

In simple terms far too many Sydney clubs trying to compete against 1 team clubs from major cities and those Sydney clubs without a rich benefactor are ultimately doomed.

The continued expansion and the wrecking of the 2nd and 3rd grade competitions coupled with the demise of junior football has seen what is now a small pool of really talented players and coaching staff congregating at the wealthier clubs.

To top it all off the NRL has seen fit to force some clubs to play away from their "tribal" homes and the fan base is disintegrating around those clubs.

For the game to survive it needs to shrink not expand but the NRL is not about to let that happen as TV rights keeps them all in cosy employment.

The way forward for the Dragons is not easy and like the budget repair the government is trying to do it is some way off before there is any light at the end of the tunnel.

The answer for us IMO is within our junior development programme but unless we are willing to take the hit in results whilst the juniors learn their trade we will never end up being overly successful.

Last but not least we the fans with the high level expectation also need to rethink and get a longer term vision rather than the myopic approach that we must have results tomorrow.

An attractive style of football is what we all yearn for and unfortunately we seem to be set in stone with a rigid philosophy of picking up journey men who may keep us in and around the 8 with no real chance of success and boring us to death in the process.

I feel very sorry for the younger passionate supporters who have only heard the great stories of this once magnificent club lets all hope the phoenix can rise from the ashes.

I agree with your sentiments. We should have ideally rebuilt after Young, Hornby, cooper and Gasnier retired.

I honestly thought that Price had a long term plan by blooding some juniors and perhaps astutely buying 1-2 outsiders into the team. But what I saw was an absolute brothel. I would like to sit down and personally ask him what he hoped to achieve when he asked our 32 year old captain halfback Hornby to retire only to replace him with a 33 year old fein who was actually a hooker and not a halfback. And continually pick him for the full 26 weeks expecting a different result! The stupidity still amazes me. And because Price was so bad, Mary looks like a world beater next to him.

I think the sooner this Flash Gordon gets on board, the better. I'm sure he won't tolerate this rubbish for too long. It's a bit of a worry though why this deal is taking so long to get rubber stamped. Until this happens, I can't see much changing.

 

[Minh]

3 positive things that did come out of that game:
1: Packer really tries hard every run and shows gritty determination but he cant do it alone.
2: I thought Benji had an alright game for his 1st one back, nice interplay with Widdop to get KFFL in the corner, and his no try was nice, good to see some footwork and dash.
3: Aitkin is one of our future stars, good try (well maybe it was) and defends well.

3 negative things that were enhanced during that game:
1: We are only a 40 min team
2: We lack the basic functionalities that go with attacking football.
3: There is no plan B (is there actually a plan A other than defence?)

3 things that need to happen:
1: The board or whoever need to determine if Mary has the support of the playing group
2: Mary needs to admit his coaching style is 6 years in the past and he needs help.
3: The recruitment /retention staff need to determine who is staying and who is going and cut them loose sooner rather than later. Then look to assembling a playing group that is proud to wear the Red V (or the Illawarra shirt) and play for it.

There are many, many steps to repair our team, this would be a small step to start with.

Great post...

 

[Vasilevsky]

Wow, there's a hell of a lot of reading there. Maybe one day when I'm retired.
Russia occupied Hungary from 1945 to 1989.

Well Lenin said: "Ignorance never yet helped anybody." The sooner you make a start the better and until you do, be so kind as to lose your infatuation vis-a-vis Russia.

During the period between 1945 and 1989 Russia or the Russian Empire didn't exist. If you mean occupied by the Soviet Union, well call it that if you like but as long as your aren't so idiotic as to say countries like Australia aren't occupied by USA and names like "Jim-bob" aren't perfectly normal in Australia.

Anyway, me and BennyV agree that the main problem with the Dragons attack is Gareth Widdop. We think the guy is a plodder and an imposter (obviously). The proof is the one game in the past 2+ years Widdop didn't play (it's not like he puts his body on the line and often gets injured) and the way numerous halfbacks have had a no luck forming a successful combination with him.

I'm not sure what is wrong with you homies or why you won't suffer any criticism of Widdop but I joined this forum for the express reason of releasing my frustration with this f**king destroyed of RL teams. Even the game against the Roosters, one try from a kick, one try from a Roosters mistake and one from an intercept and every second deluded moron on this forum is lauding the main playmaker...... WTF is going on in this forum vis-a-vis Gareth Widdop????