General Discussion Thread

[ACTPanthers]

You've obviously got your undies in a twist. How bout a bex and a good lie down.

Look, I don't agree with @franklin2323 at all, but to respond to a post with "piss off" and the likes of the above is just uncalled for, regardless of whether you agree or not.

 

[WestyLife]

He clocked out Round 19 once the important stuff started. Ivan is usually a hard marker lets hope it continues on his son. Let Luai run the side

In my opinion this is probably an extreme version of the truth. He definitely went away from his own game to an extent. Why I wouldn't dare to guess but it definitely happened. He wasn't horrible by any means but maybe quiet is the word or reserved.

 

[Jane Murray]

Stats don't lie... piss off yourself

Why don't you come out and admit that you do not rate Cleary and you want him gone?

 

[mxlegend99]

He clocked out in Round 19... @franklin2323 that must be when you clocked out.

He was a huge part of getting us to the grand final in week 1 and 3 of the finals. Stats don't lie?

He scored 3 of our 5 tries vs Roosters and kicked the field goal that proved the difference.

He had 2 of our 3 try assists against Souths and outkicked Adam Reynolds to be the difference thst put us into the grand final.

For someone that clocked off he did an awful lot to help put us into the grand final... Where he had 2 linebreaks and scored a try in a team that was outclassed across the field and couldn't get anything to stick.

It wasnt his best performance but no one in our team played well on grand final night. He tried hard though and gave us an incredibly unlikely shot with a few seconds to go for a golden point match. We never deserved to be in position for that. Yet had we come up with the right trick shot we could have.

Edit
To beat Roosters he outplayed back to back champion Luke Keary. And Flanagan but that means nothing.
To beat Souths he outplayed Walker and Reynolds.

He did this in finals matches. Sure Hughes and Munster outplayed him in the Grand Final. But almost everyone of Storm outplayed their opposite numbers. Its hard for any player to lift a team outclassed across the park. Unrealistic to expect in his first grand final aswell

 

[CCJohnC]

I would be interested to know how many tackles Cleary made last night. It seemed to me he did a lot of cover defense. You cannot run the game if you are playing behind a beaten pack and continually coming from the 10 meter line..

 

[franklin2323]

He clocked out in Round 19... @franklin2323 that must be when you clocked out.

He was a huge part of getting us to the grand final in week 1 and 3 of the finals. Stats don't lie?

He scored 3 of our 5 tries vs Roosters and kicked the field goal that proved the difference.

He had 2 of our 3 try assists against Souths and outkicked Adam Reynolds to be the difference thst put us into the grand final.

For someone that clocked off he did an awful lot to help put us into the grand final... Where he had 2 linebreaks and scored a try in a team that was outclassed across the field and couldn't get anything to stick.

It wasnt his best performance but no one in our team played well on grand final night. He tried hard though and gave us an incredibly unlikely shot with a few seconds to go for a golden point match. We never deserved to be in position for that. Yet had we come up with the right trick shot we could have.

Edit
To beat Roosters he outplayed back to back champion Luke Keary. And Flanagan but that means nothing.
To beat Souths he outplayed Walker and Reynolds.

He did this in finals matches. Sure Hughes and Munster outplayed him in the Grand Final. But almost everyone of Storm outplayed their opposite numbers. Its hard for any player to lift a team outclassed across the park. Unrealistic to expect in his first grand final aswell

Stats don't tell the full story

Take those 2 try assists v Souths. both bombs the To'o was scored because Souths winger dropped it. There was no variety in the kicking he went away from what was so effective in the regular season

The 3 tries v Roosters
Try 1 was a lose ball that Edwards picked up drew the fullback and passed
try 2 was a kick from Luai he chased
try 3 came from Luai/Crichton work led to a break he supported on the inside

Grand Final: 0 try assist. 0 11 kicks for 249 metres 2 errors. 0 repeat sets
Souths Semi: 8 runs for 43m. 1 errors. 1 repeat set
Roosters semi: 0 try assists. 46 run metres. 1 linebreak. 0 repeat sets
Bulldogs last round 0 try assists. 0 line breaks 305 kick metres

Compare to season average per game and was way down. certainly not the same player who tore up Canberra mid season. for the record he ave 485 kick metres per game. 26 try assists

He had 2 try assists in those last 4 games. 1 linebreak ( so it wasn't as though he was tearing it up individually)

Winning doesn't mean he outplayed those players

 

[franklin2323]

In my opinion this is probably an extreme version of the truth. He definitely went away from his own game to an extent. Why I wouldn't dare to guess but it definitely happened. He wasn't horrible by any means but maybe quiet is the word or reserved.

It seems if it is a big game he goes 'quiet'. I think if he or coaches knew why it would get fixed there is a big enough sample size now to use

 

[betcats]

Franklin you have lost the plot.

 

[WestyLife]

I know as Panthers fans we want to defend our player and Cleary isn't even bad BUT he is now the laughing stock of the game and getting the blame.

 

[franklin2323]

Franklin you have lost the plot.

Where is anything I said wrong?

 

[franklin2323]

I know as Panthers fans we want to defend our player and Cleary isn't even bad BUT he is now the laughing stock of the game and getting the blame.

I get that wanting to defend our own but there is a reason why he is coping it

 

[mxlegend99]

I know as Panthers fans we want to defend our player and Cleary isn't even bad BUT he is now the laughing stock of the game and getting the blame.

Ofcourse he gets singled out despite a team around him being absolutely awful.

Wighton was destroyed by Gagai
Gutherson was destroyed by Capewell
Tupou literally handed QLD a try.

Keary who has won back to back comps and carried Roosters while Cronk was busted didn't have anything last night either. Fittler hasn't gotten a single half to play his natural game except for Maloney who just goes into games and plays them how he wants.

Cleary was poor last night. But none of the NSW team looked good. It's understandable to blame the halfback. But there were guys who played a bigger part in us losing and that comes back on the coach who picked guys out of position and didnt use anyone the way they should be used.

Hopefully they drop Cleary so someone else can wear the blame for NSW having no direction. Putting playmakers in every position rather than letting anyone run the team.

 

[CCJohnC]

I would be interested to know how many tackles Cleary made last night. It seemed to me he did a lot of cover defense. You cannot run the game if you are playing behind a beaten pack and continually coming from the 10 meter line..

To answer my own question according to the D/T Cleary made 27 tackles only beaten by Cook 46 (as you would expect) and Trbojevic 34. I rest my case.

 

[franklin2323]

To add further.

SG Ball 2014. We were up 20-0. Lost 34-30 in extra time Cleary missed a FG in extra time.

2015 NYC he didn't play in the GF.

So really it is just hope and Faith that he can turn it around

 

[Aliceinwonderland]

Look, I don't agree with @franklin2323 at all, but to respond to a post with "piss off" and the likes of the above is just uncalled for, regardless of whether you agree or not.

Just expressing my opinion....like you.

 

[Aliceinwonderland]

Stats don't tell the full story

Take those 2 try assists v Souths. both bombs the To'o was scored because Souths winger dropped it. There was no variety in the kicking he went away from what was so effective in the regular season

The 3 tries v Roosters
Try 1 was a lose ball that Edwards picked up drew the fullback and passed
try 2 was a kick from Luai he chased
try 3 came from Luai/Crichton work led to a break he supported on the inside

Grand Final: 0 try assist. 0 11 kicks for 249 metres 2 errors. 0 repeat sets
Souths Semi: 8 runs for 43m. 1 errors. 1 repeat set
Roosters semi: 0 try assists. 46 run metres. 1 linebreak. 0 repeat sets
Bulldogs last round 0 try assists. 0 line breaks 305 kick metres

Compare to season average per game and was way down. certainly not the same player who tore up Canberra mid season. for the record he ave 485 kick metres per game. 26 try assists

He had 2 try assists in those last 4 games. 1 linebreak ( so it wasn't as though he was tearing it up individually)

Winning doesn't mean he outplayed those players

Stats tell a portion of the story, not the whole story.

 

[ACTPanthers]

Just expressing my opinion....like you.

Telling people to piss off and have a Bex is NOT an opinion, no matter how you spin it.

 

[Jane Murray]

Just expressing my opinion....like you.

Don't even go there, Aliceinwonderland. You will cop my treatment, not that it bothers me.

 

[franklin2323]

Stats tell a portion of the story, not the whole story.

results and stats don't tell a good portion of the story

 

[The Realist]

I am with Franklin on this, Cleary's leadership and game management completely goes missing in many big games. He is not soley to blame. In the GF we got outcoached with some of our players having shockers.

Last night we were similarly out coached and our 'Centres' + Keary were poor defensively.

Cleary is rightfully getting a Pearce like reputation for going quiet in big games which does not bode well if that doesn't improve.

If Ivan wasn't the coach I wouldn't be too worried because Luai or some other star would become our go to clutch/big game player but for better or worse this is Nathan's team. I hope he improves this aspect of his game dramatically starting from next year.

Yeah again the excuses can come about other players etc, but Champion halfbacks can take control and pull off big plays even when their team mates are overmatched. Nathan doesn't seem to have it in him ATM when it really matters.