GI to the Broncos

[AuDragon]

Basically, are you geniused ??? NRL endorsed the deal, we are no way over the cap in any way shape or from.



I have explained this to you twice. You commented about how a player should be paid his market value & you used Gasnier as an example. Over the 3 years we will have to pay gasnier his true market value. You have shown you understand this
My comment was directed at your obvious problem with Gasnier not being paid his "true" market value for the remainder of this year. Yet Broncs can pay Carroll match payments only for his return and last year in broncs colours, was this his "true" market value ? Not a chance in hell.

This is how you are being hypocritical.

Lookup what "virtually" means in the dictionary... :roll:

You seem to be dismissing the backending part of this discussion, which is of intrinsic significance.

Carroll OFFERED to help the Broncs for a symbolic value (or his market value at the time). Gasnier asked for a full salary (his market value)! FFS, can't you see the difference?

If Cam Smith decided to go to the Titans for $55K a year, it would be his and the Titans right to do so.
However, if he decides to go there for $650K a year, but only gets paid $55K in the first year so he fits in under the cap, and then $947.5K p/y in the next 2 years, that will be backending.
The Titans would be fielding a "legal" team in 2011 that would virtually (there is that word again) be worth $595K more than the actual cap value for that year.

The fact that Gasnier salary for THIS YEAR (his market value) will only be paid later, is basically using a subterfuge to legally bypass the cap. You have a team that has an actual market value that is over the cap, while still legal to the NRL. Hence the virtual part of the sentence!

If Gasnier wanted to play at the Dragons for the minimum wage this season, there would be nothing to say, but that is not the case.
That is what Lokyer argued and what I'm arguing!

 

[Dingus]

put quite simply, with clinton/marsh/hunt, leaving at end of last year with big contracts and kemp and anderson coming in, had Broncos retained Folau, and acquired Hannant, then no one would cry fowl.

Inglis is on a similar figure to folau

And remember that the current squad, at the start of the year, were odds on to miss the 8, widely tipped to finish around 9-12, and at some stages during the year even considered spoon contenders. Cycle back six months, swap inglis with folau, take out sims/setu and stein and put in hannant and i don't think much would have changed.

The real value in the team comes from signing relative unknowns on small contracts for 2-3 years and developing them into good players who at the backend of their contracts will be considered under market value.

 

[lockyrulz]

Mate, you're forgetting a few. The Broncos lost 13 first grade players at the end of 08 and then at least another 9 last season.

I thought the count was 22. No I havent forgotten.

However, all this talk about Brisbane being under the salary cap is missing the point. We have a competition where Brisbane get an entire City of the most talented players in the Country almost exclusively to themselves and then they get to spend exactly the same as Melbourne who have well...... eerrrr well when they have some players to choose from I'll get back to you.

Gallop keeps crapping on about the salary cap making the competition even, but it's anything but. Certain teams, through history, geography, demographics, juniors, media coverage etc are far more even than others.

The one single area where some parity can be given to disadvantaged clubs is in the cap (due to the fact we dont have a draft) and yet we don't make it smarter.

Brisbane are in a supremely lucky position. Luckier than any other club and well, good on them. They're the rules we play by and it's not their fault if the stack is loaded in their favour.

The latest salary cap concession about allowing players with 8 years service more room in the cap will benefit the Broncos most in the long term purely because they will be able to hold on to all the youngsters they bring through when they reach their peak at 26 years of age. If people are crying foul of the Broncos spending power now, wait a decade. They'll be bawling their f**king eyes out.

Agree with everything you said.

The options for Sydney supporters will be accept ratioanlisation of Sydney teams or buy a whole lot of kleenex.

 

[Razor]

Hunt. Taylor. Civeniceva. Carroll. Tate. Ennis. Eastwood. Stagg. Boyd. Moon. Perry.

/phew out of breath.
and also...
this year: Winterstein, Folau, Sims (Ashton & Tariq), Setu, Gorrell, Michaels, Marsh.

You're forgetting that you signed several of those players from other clubs before losing them.

Remember when you lose a player he needs to replaced.

You need to have 25 players in your squad.

Tariq and Gorrell aren't even in the 25-man squad this year, so I don't see why you mentioned him.

Several of the others you mentioned would be on very low amounts. Minimum wage is $55,000, so whoeever replaces them will be on at least that.

The Broncos have the Fab 6 next year - Hodges, Inglis, Lockyer, Wallace, Thaiday, Hannant. The Storm only had a Fab 4. 16 of the Storm's 25 man-squad were on the minimum wage. I can tell you know more than 9 of the Broncos are on more than $55,000.

 

[adamkungl]

The fact that Gasnier salary for THIS YEAR (his market value) will only be paid later, is basically using a subterfuge to legally bypass the cap. You have a team that has an actual market value that is over the cap, while still legal to the NRL. Hence the virtual part of the sentence!

Who cares. The salary cap exists so that rich clubs can't consistently outspend poorer clubs. Dragons will be spending the cap every year and (I assume) no more. Thus it is fair. They will be forced to shed players in coming years to allow space for le Gaz's backended contract.

"Actual market value" is irrelevant imo. If a superstar wants to play for a club for peanuts, who cares. sh*t like "actual market value" and "points systems" are promoted by morons who want the NRL to be a perfectly even competition of mediocrity. Which is wrong. There should always be some good teams and some sh*t teams, otherwise no one builds up any consistency and we complain about the competition being low standard.

 

[AuDragon]

Mate, you're forgetting a few. The Broncos lost 13 first grade players at the end of 08 and then at least another 9 last season.

I thought the count was 22. No I havent forgotten.

However, all this talk about Brisbane being under the salary cap is missing the point. We have a competition where Brisbane get an entire City of the most talented players in the Country almost exclusively to themselves and then they get to spend exactly the same as Melbourne who have well...... eerrrr well when they have some players to choose from I'll get back to you.

Gallop keeps crapping on about the salary cap making the competition even, but it's anything but. Certain teams, through history, geography, demographics, juniors, media coverage etc are far more even than others.

The one single area where some parity can be given to disadvantaged clubs is in the cap (due to the fact we dont have a draft) and yet we don't make it smarter.

Brisbane are in a supremely lucky position. Luckier than any other club and well, good on them. They're the rules we play by and it's not their fault if the stack is loaded in their favour.

The latest salary cap concession about allowing players with 8 years service more room in the cap will benefit the Broncos most in the long term purely because they will be able to hold on to all the youngsters they bring through when they reach their peak at 26 years of age. If people are crying foul of the Broncos spending power now, wait a decade. They'll be bawling their f**king eyes out.

You're absolutely right, and this is yet another reason why Sydney should lose some teams.

The Storm still has had plenty of success with their youth policy, which they obviously draw from their Qld feeders and scouts, so they must be doing something right in that department...

 

[Razor]

put quite simply, with clinton/marsh/hunt, leaving at end of last year with big contracts and kemp and anderson coming in, had Broncos retained Folau, and acquired Hannant, then no one would cry fowl.

Inglis is on a similar figure to folau

They signed Hannant after losing Folau. The Broncos said they couldn't afford Hannant if Folau stayed.

They used Clinton's money to sign Tronc mid-season. He's still there next year.

They upgraded their younger players contracts - the club has admitted that.

 

[Razor]

which they obviously draw from their Qld feeders and scouts, so they must be doing something right in that department...

They don't have a QLD affiliate team anymore. Hasn't been for several years. It was Central Coast after Norths, then they went to their own Melbourne based team.

And several of the Storm QLD players - Inglis & Folau are the biggest 2 only moved to QLD after being spotted by Storm scouts aged 15 and moved to play with their affiliate club, Norths. They scouted all over the country, and moved them to QLD. Now they move them to Victoria.

 

[lockyrulz]

They signed Hannant after losing Folau. The Broncos said they couldn't afford Hannant if Folau stayed.

They used Clinton's money to sign Tronc mid-season. He's still there next year.

They upgraded their younger players contracts - the club has admitted that.

I could be misunderstanding you but if you think Tronc is on anything like Clintons money you have nfi.

 

[AuDragon]

Who cares. The salary cap exists so that rich clubs can't consistently outspend poorer clubs. Dragons will be spending the cap every year and (I assume) no more. Thus it is fair. They will be forced to shed players in coming years to allow space for le Gaz's backended contract.

"Actual market value" is irrelevant imo. If a superstar wants to play for a club for peanuts, who cares. sh*t like "actual market value" and "points systems" are promoted by morons who want the NRL to be a perfectly even competition of mediocrity. Which is wrong. There should always be some good teams and some sh*t teams, otherwise no one builds up any consistency and we complain about the competition being low standard.

The point is that he doesn't want to play for peanuts and Carroll did want to play for peanuts.

I won't argue your point though as I totally agree with it. I come from an european soccer background, so I know exactly what you mean. Although not "fair" to other competitors or even my team, it's magnificent to see the likes of Barcelonas, Milans, ManUtd play that game.

And guess what, my team without the means of those giants still managed to snatch the Uefa cup and Champions League in consecutive years by using smart management, good scouting and a very good junior school. Of course, the "sharks" came along and snatched the coach and half the players away a year later... :?

I'm sure a better balance could be achieved in the NRL than we have now, with some new teams, and mainly by culling or relocating some other teams, but fact remains that the Broncos and clubs alike would always be in the advantage.

 

[icewind]

They signed Hannant after losing Folau. The Broncos said they couldn't afford Hannant if Folau stayed.

They used Clinton's money to sign Tronc mid-season. He's still there next year.

They upgraded their younger players contracts - the club has admitted that.

so if the broncos are so over the cap, why risk auditing from schubert by getting inglis? news ltd? oh, but the storm was news ltd. as well, so why didn't they sweep that under the carpet? its all one big conspiracy i tells ya! run for the hills!

You're seeing conspiracy where there is none imo, and until you can find some brown paper bags full of cash outside sam thaidays house, then its all pure speculation and hearsay.

 

[Cockadoodledoo]

Salarys this year that will be lost next year.

Israel Folau
Lagi Setu
PJ March
Antonio Weinterstien
Aston Sims
Tariq Sims
(Steve Micheals [new money that came free before june30])

This is where numbnuts like you get it wrong. You do not lose their salaries at all. Let's just say you have lost those 7 players from your cap next season (Tariq Sims is a bit of a stretch). You are then down to 18 from your current squad, however you then have to add 7 in to your top 25 squad..

Will the 7 coming in be on less than those going? Apart from Falou the other 6 would be on peanuts... Winterstein a Roosters NYC reject, Tariq Sims a current NYC reject, PJ Marsh a cripple, Lagi Setu on small change and Steve Michael's on no more than an average first grade salary (normal NRL club average that is) and the comment about money being free before June 30 has zero relevance to your 2011 cap. Let's see who is being added for next season to offset those going.. I guess Inglis and Falou is a one for one swap.. Then things start getting a little murky.. We won't even consider upgrades for guys resigned like Hoffman... hmmm.. not a good look Mr Gallop..

Hannant
Inglis
......
......
......
......
......

 

[Cockadoodledoo]

I love Broncos accounting.

Players come or stay for "peanuts"

Until they leave, then they WERE on "big bucks"

...

They play for less so they can be coached by Ivan :roll:

 

[Tonearm Terrorwrist]

so if the broncos are so over the cap, why risk auditing from schubert by getting inglis? news ltd? oh, but the storm was news ltd. as well, so why didn't they sweep that under the carpet? its all one big conspiracy i tells ya! run for the hills!

You're seeing conspiracy where there is none imo, and until you can find some brown paper bags full of cash outside sam thaidays house, then its all pure speculation and hearsay.

When has Ian Schubert ever found anything that was not from a tip off? The guy couldn't pick his nose without somebody passing him a piece of paper indicating where his nostrils were.

 

[some11]

 

[Cockadoodledoo]

Ken Talbot is dead and Don Nissen is the chairman of Talbot Group.

We all know Talbot gave money to Bennett.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/sport/nrl/wayne-bennetts-secret-fund/story-e6frep5x-1111115066538

Let's not forget the holier than thou, my sh*t doesn't stink Webcke..

http://www.foxsports.com.au/story/0,8659,25749762-23214,00.html?from=public_rss

 

[some11]

 

[saint_marto88]

Surely a club wouldn't actually be stupid enough to cheat the salary cap after what's happened to the Storm. It would just defy logic or any sort of common sense

 

[Tonearm Terrorwrist]

Surely a club wouldn't actually be stupid enough to cheat the salary cap after what's happened to the Storm. It would just defy logic or any sort of common sense

You mean like what the Warriros did after the Bulldogs saga and what the Storm did after both?

 

[Moffo]