What's new
The Front Row Forums

Register a free account today to become a member of the world's largest Rugby League discussion forum! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Go away Hayden

JJ

Immortal
Messages
31,973
aussies1st said:
We are missing both Waugh's equally. Mark for his first slip catching. Steve for his captaincy.

yup - there have been few comments on Ponting's captaincy - but it's been appalling!!! He's fine when they're dominant, but when the pressure's on he's very defensive
 

aussies1st

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
28,154
He has always looked suspect to me. We saw it when Oram whipped Ponting all over the place. Gilly should have been made captain but not its probably too late.
 
Messages
134
Warne is Australia's real captain, only problem is his off field behaviour has denied him that chance.

I would also like to just add that no one was questioning this Australian side when they won 34873987438979473 test series' in a row. Its just Australian fans have come to expect Australia to flog their opponents within 3 days and whitewash every series.

They've met their match, however I don't think England could beat Australia in Australia, the conditions are very much suited to the poms and they're taking full advantage of it.
 

Scott

Bench
Messages
3,784
I would have thought the conditions at the moment are very very similar to the Gabba, Bellrieve and Adelaide.

Before this series started I thought the Poms would struggle in this series and really look to 06/07 in Aussie as 'their' time.
 

OVP

Coach
Messages
11,625
fish eel said:
Matthew Hayden, at his best, has it all over Michael Slater at his best.

Rubbish. Michael Slater never had the luxury of facing constant mediocre attacks. Slater faced bowlers such as Ambrose, Walsh, Akram, Younis etc. Whenever Hayden faced those type of bowlers, he crumbled like a pack of cards and they brought Slater back in.
 

Tommy Smith

Referee
Messages
21,344
OVP said:
Rubbish. Michael Slater never had the luxury of facing constant mediocre attacks. Slater faced bowlers such as Ambrose, Walsh, Akram, Younis etc. Whenever Hayden faced those type of bowlers, he crumbled like a pack of cards and they brought Slater back in.
A timeline of Hayden's career:

1993-1997 - faced quality attacks, South Afirica (Donald, De Villiers, Pollock) and Windies (Ambrose, Walsh, Bishop): averaged 21.

2000-2004 - faced attacks so bad that he could just walk down the pitch to fast bowlers (and i use that description loosely)and smash them where he so choosed. Averaged 60 odd at a guess. Imagine trying that tactic against Ambrose, Akram and co LOLOLOL

2005-death? - faced a quality, four pronged pace attack, the first decent one since his first stint in the team. And low and behold he has averaged mid-to-early 20's again.

Michael Slater and Mark Waugh both finished there careers with averages in the mid-to-early 40's If their careers had begun and ended five years later they would have averaged in the late-40's to early-50's. I have no doubt about that.

Look at blokes like Martyn and Ponting for example. As good as Ponting is, is it any coincidence that his average and Martyn's jumped from mid-40's to high 50's! (low 50's in Martyn's case) once Akram, Younis, Donald, Walsh and Ambrose retired. And it was also around the time when pitches were made to last 5 days for tv. Surely that is no coincidence, just as it is no coincidence that Hayden has only thrived during his career when facing mediocore pace attacks.

Have a look at Hayden's career graph.

http://www.howstat.com.au/cricket/Statistics/Players/PlayerBatGraph.asp?PlayerID=1976

Scroll completely to the left, then go to the middle, and then scroll compeltely to the right. Now im no f**king detective but there's clearly a pattern there. It looks like a mountain. And the reasoning behind it has been explained in the last two posts.
 

Twizzle

Administrator
Staff member
Messages
151,846
OVP said:
Rubbish. Michael Slater never had the luxury of facing constant mediocre attacks. Slater faced bowlers such as Ambrose, Walsh, Akram, Younis etc. Whenever Hayden faced those type of bowlers, he crumbled like a pack of cards and they brought Slater back in.

yep

give me Slats any day
 

OVP

Coach
Messages
11,625
Tommy Smith said:
A timeline of Hayden's career:

1993-1997 - faced quality attacks, South Afirica (Donald, De Villiers, Pollock) and Windies (Ambrose, Walsh, Bishop): averaged 21.

2000-2004 - faced attacks so bad that he could just walk down the pitch to fast bowlers (and i use that description loosely)and smash them where he so choosed. Averaged 60 odd at a guess. Imagine trying that tactic against Ambrose, Akram and co LOLOLOL

2005-death? - faced a quality, four pronged pace attack, the first decent one since his first stint in the team. And low and behold he has averaged mid-to-early 20's again.

Michael Slater and Mark Waugh both finished there careers with averages in the mid-to-early 40's If their careers had begun and ended five years later they would have averaged in the late-40's to early-50's. I have no doubt about that.

Look at blokes like Martyn and Ponting for example. As good as Ponting is, is it any coincidence that his average and Martyn's jumped from mid-40's to high 50's! (low 50's in Martyn's case) once Akram, Younis, Donald, Walsh and Ambrose retired. And it was also around the time when pitches were made to last 5 days for tv. Surely that is no coincidence, just as it is no coincidence that Hayden has only thrived during his career when facing mediocore pace attacks.

Have a look at Hayden's career graph.

http://www.howstat.com.au/cricket/Statistics/Players/PlayerBatGraph.asp?PlayerID=1976

Scroll completely to the left, then go to the middle, and then scroll compeltely to the right. Now im no f**king detective but there's clearly a pattern there. It looks like a mountain. And the reasoning behind it has been explained in the last two posts.

Thats a post and a half Tommy ... many thanks for PROVING what i always believed. Hayden is great against average attacks, but when he's faced with a great or even very good attack, he crumbles. People always ask me why i respect Slater so much, its because if he even sneezed, he would be sacked (thx to the Qld based selectors/Buchanan) and whether it was Elliot or Hayden they brought in to replace him, they could NEVER and will NEVER match the kind of start Slater gave us in every Test match, against the kind of bowlers the world needs these days, but thankfully England has produced 4 very very good ones.

Slater proved himself constantly, and was forced to, because the selectors and coach were Qlders. Its funny how Hayden has had such a good run lately huh ... Qlders in positions of power = BIG problems when faced with quality opposition.

Im happy England are winning and deservedly so, their 4-pronged pace attack is killing our pretenders ... best thing to happen to Aussie cricket in MANY years. Piss off the Qld influence, and watch us do well.

The last time the Aussie team was virtually unbeatable was when there were a heavy NSW influence in the team. Slater, Taylor, Mark Waugh, Steve Waugh ... bring back the NSW influence please.
 

madunit

Super Moderator
Staff member
Messages
62,358
GoTheBears said:
Madunit - Katich is batting like a Pussy? Katich is a freaken test player, one of the few sensible players in our team.
Martyn is a top player. The one which needs to go is Hayden.
I'll say it again, Katich is batting like a pussy, he may be sensible but he's not scoring many runs. His half century wasn't even close to convincing that he has found some form.

Martyn has a lead front foot. He only plays well at Perth and Adelaide nowadays.

He needs to be booted.
 

OVP

Coach
Messages
11,625
madunit said:
I'll say it again, Katich is batting like a pussy, he may be sensible but he's not scoring many runs. His half century wasn't even close to convincing that he has found some form.

Martyn has a lead front foot. He only plays well at Perth and Adelaide nowadays.

He needs to be booted.

Fair enough, but ffs NO MORE QLders !! Anyone else would be sweet. Sack Hohns, sack Buchanan, Hayden etc ... bliss.
 

lockyno1

Post Whore
Messages
53,047
OVP said:
Fair enough, but ffs NO MORE QLders !! Anyone else would be sweet. Sack Hohns, sack Buchanan, Hayden etc ... bliss.

Hussey or Hodge would be lovely!:D
 

OVP

Coach
Messages
11,625
lockyno1 said:
Hussey or Hodge would be lovely!:D

Who the Hell is Hodge? Hussey DEFINITELY. The man strikes the ball cleaner than anyone in world cricket atm, lets hope Hussey makes it.
 

Matt23

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
16,495
Whats the bet Watson or Symonds get a game before Hussey or Hodge...
 

aussies1st

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
28,154
Don't be on Symonds getting one before Hussey or Hodge. Hodge will get in before Hussey as he was selected to play in the tour match. Watson will come out of the blue.
 

azza

Juniors
Messages
1,799
Hussey won't be in the side as apparently he has already left for Australia to prepare for the A team's departure to the subcontinent.

Tommy I think you are being a bit harsh on Hayden. YES I do agree he needs to dropped and yes he has faced some mediocre attacks but he come up with some great test innings. On that 2001 tour of India if it was not for him we would have got mauled - there was no other batsmen in the side that could handle Harbhajan but Hayden was at ease. His 203 at Chennai was magnificent considering Australia were all out for 390 or so and the other batsmen dropped like flies around him. He scored a great hundred in Sharjah in blistering heat to win Australia the match, and was the only one who stood up to a lethal spell of fast reverse swing bowling by Akhtar in a test match v Pakistan in Sri Lanka. And there are many more.

He is very much a player that needs to be "in the groove" - if he is, he is unstoppable. Right now he very clearly is not - and he definitely is struggling with the English conditions.

I agree that the quality of bowling around the world has declined since the early to mid 90's but that hasn't just allowed Hayden to inflate his average - it's basically allowed every batsmen with some ability to do the same. Mark Waugh averaged 41 and Damien Martyn 48 or so but IMO Waugh in the early part of his career had to face some very good bowling attacks. Not true with Martyn.
 

Corbin

Juniors
Messages
2,207
any1 who is saying drop Lee is just stupid. Hayden must go Now and give Hussey or jaques the spot.
 

aussies1st

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
28,154
Hussey is definitely out of the equation. Only person that could replae Hayden or Martyn is Hodge. Although Watson could also replace them but I would have thought the usual scape goat would get dropped first.
 

aussies1st

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
28,154
Don't expect to see any changes. Martyn is definitely in after he wasn't picked for the Tour match. Hayden hit a 150 which for the selectors is enough. Hodge top scored but cause the selectors aren't willing to drop the out of form guys he won't come in.
Watson may come in for Katich as is always the case.
 

Latest posts

Top