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halves for next year?

caylo

Bench
Messages
4,870
I agree with you but when you don't have the cattle, you have to make do and play people to their strengths not manufacture players to something else.

We saw that when Corey Pearson thought he was a halfback.

But yes, Hayne is a great hole runner, power, speed, balance and footwork but if you don't have anyone to give him a half break then he's like a prop more often than not.

I did like Humble with his limited chances but he is still an unknown for mine.

Lastly, I think Hayne wants to ball play. It's an ego thing that he can do it all.

Slater can run and does a great job. Hayne can ball play and I reckon he wants to ball play.

Slater has recently tried to ball play (because I think Hayne does it) but Slater has no idea. He had a crap game for the aussies too!

Hayne can ball play but it is better if he can do it by choice rather then being forced. Robson can play halfback, limited, but no less her distributes well and can control the forward.the five-eight should be able to ball play out wife and distribute to hayne and the outside backs. Mortimer failed at this, this year but could improve if not humble is capable.

We have to cattle, just have to be used right.
 

Wise Old Eel

Juniors
Messages
448
Well, rather than consider a conspiracy theory, could it not be the coach? Aint it even possible? Just a little bit? After all, the first two thirds of 2009, Parramatta were pretty mediocre. Then for about nine rounds or so, they played very unstructured, flamboyant, 'throw the ball around and hope somebody catches it' type football along with very good defence. Then for the whole of 2010 we were either mediocre or terrible. And it isn`t even remotely possible that Anderson was a f**ked coach? And isn`t it just possible - I mean, even remotely possible - that Anderson continued to stubbornly select Mortimer in the team despite his hopeless performances?
Or you would rather think that the 'board' or Paul Osborne signed a contract with Mortimer that guaranteed he would play first grade no matter what - even though he was a very inexperienced rookie with a lot to learn? That makes heaps more sense, doesn`t it? Come on, guys.

Mate, all we have to go on is Anderson's consistent record of success leading up to this season & what the Eels management (hand in hand with certain sections of the media) have fed us. If both parties (Anderson & Eels management) had come out & confirmed the same story, we wouldn't be having this debate. But all we get is he said, she said.

Personally, I think your argument of Anderson being a "f**ked coach" is just as much of a conspiracy theory as that of believing he was hampered by people who did not want him there. No coach could consistently get the run of results Anderson did purely by chance. No one is that lucky.

If anything, the opposite is true. If things were made as difficult for Anderson as some of us "conspiracy theorists" believe, then he did very well this year. He very nearly got us to the 8 again (we lost 3 or 4 matches by very small margins in 2010) coaching a team with players he either did not want or select. Anderson doesn't say too much. He chooses to live by the sword or die by it but if you listen to some of the interviews and press conferences he did give, he drops a few hints here & there.

Anyway, as I have said before, until the whole truth comes out (& that may never happen), we will never know. Bring on 2011 already!! Go the Eels!

WOE
 

Casper The Ghost

First Grade
Messages
9,924
Mate, all we have to go on is Anderson's consistent record of success leading up to this season & what the Eels management (hand in hand with certain sections of the media) have fed us. If both parties (Anderson & Eels management) had come out & confirmed the same story, we wouldn't be having this debate. But all we get is he said, she said.

Personally, I think your argument of Anderson being a "f**ked coach" is just as much of a conspiracy theory as that of believing he was hampered by people who did not want him there. No coach could consistently get the run of results Anderson did purely by chance. No one is that lucky.

If anything, the opposite is true. If things were made as difficult for Anderson as some of us "conspiracy theorists" believe, then he did very well this year. He very nearly got us to the 8 again (we lost 3 or 4 matches by very small margins in 2010) coaching a team with players he either did not want or select. Anderson doesn't say too much. He chooses to live by the sword or die by it but if you listen to some of the interviews and press conferences he did give, he drops a few hints here & there.

Anyway, as I have said before, until the whole truth comes out (& that may never happen), we will never know. Bring on 2011 already!! Go the Eels!

WOE

:clap::clap::clap::thumb
 

lingard

Coach
Messages
11,429
Mate, all we have to go on is Anderson's consistent record of success leading up to this season & what the Eels management (hand in hand with certain sections of the media) have fed us. If both parties (Anderson & Eels management) had come out & confirmed the same story, we wouldn't be having this debate. But all we get is he said, she said.

Personally, I think your argument of Anderson being a "f**ked coach" is just as much of a conspiracy theory as that of believing he was hampered by people who did not want him there. No coach could consistently get the run of results Anderson did purely by chance. No one is that lucky.

If anything, the opposite is true. If things were made as difficult for Anderson as some of us "conspiracy theorists" believe, then he did very well this year. He very nearly got us to the 8 again (we lost 3 or 4 matches by very small margins in 2010) coaching a team with players he either did not want or select. Anderson doesn't say too much. He chooses to live by the sword or die by it but if you listen to some of the interviews and press conferences he did give, he drops a few hints here & there.

Anyway, as I have said before, until the whole truth comes out (& that may never happen), we will never know. Bring on 2011 already!! Go the Eels!

WOE


I know Anderson has a very good record. But his record with Parramatta was not great. Except for a nine week period where he really got that team firing, the rest was very ordinary. And if you guys are implying that a 'board' or CEO can over-ride a coach`s selections or put pressure on the coach, I think Anderson would be one of the least-likely coach`s they could do that to. Very upfront, very assertive, prone to being abrasive to staff and players. Hardly the sort of guy who would just back down and allow others to influence a selection (i.e: Mortimer) which clearly wasn`t working. Not when it is his reputation on the line. An inexperienced or weaker coach, maybe. But not someone like Anderson, surely? I can`t imagine someone like Wayne Bennett or Tim Sheens or Des Hasler allowing that to happen. What on earth makes anyone think that Daniel Anderson would? It just makes a whole lot more sense to me that Anderson was responsible for selections. And did the board instruct Anderson to keep Anthony Mitchell in reserves? And did they instruct him to put a muzzle on Mateo`s creativity? Or to keep selecting Matt Keating in firsts when that wasn`t working either? Come on, guys - the coach has to take some responsibilty.
 

lingard

Coach
Messages
11,429
And another thing. Michael Hagan. On paper he had a very similar record at Parramatta to Daniel Anderson`s. But we were all prepared to lay the blame firmly on his shoulders alone. No CEO involvement there. No board involvement. Just poor old Michael Hagan all by himself. So what`s the difference?
And the 'board' at that time (or the CEO) told him that they would not be renewing his contract. So he quit, rather than have one long season of discontent, low morale, and probable failure. The point is, the board didn`t refuse to renew his contract because they hated his guts or because of some behind-the-scenes conspiracy; the did it because he wasn`t performing up to expectation.
This year, the new board did exactly the same thing, except that Anderson was not going to fall on his sword like Hagan did. (Maybe, in the end, Hagan had more balls.) So they decided to terminate his contract and pay him out to avoid the last year 'dead man walking' syndrome that Hagan relieved us of by resigning.
So: Hagan under-performs, it`s Hagan`s fault. Anderson under-performs, it`s ....... let`s see ....... The Board.........Paul Osborne. I think poor old Michael Hagan was done a disservice. We should`ve blamed the board. :lol:
 

hindy111

Post Whore
Messages
63,182
humble and morts i guesss would be first choice halves.Id be upset if we went in with robo and morts-ts not going to work.Atleast with humble and morts we have youth and potential....Mguire should be on bench if not starting hooker....
 

Wise Old Eel

Juniors
Messages
448
I know Anderson has a very good record. But his record with Parramatta was not great. Except for a nine week period where he really got that team firing, the rest was very ordinary. And if you guys are implying that a 'board' or CEO can over-ride a coach`s selections or put pressure on the coach, I think Anderson would be one of the least-likely coach`s they could do that to. Very upfront, very assertive, prone to being abrasive to staff and players. Hardly the sort of guy who would just back down and allow others to influence a selection (i.e: Mortimer) which clearly wasn`t working. Not when it is his reputation on the line. An inexperienced or weaker coach, maybe. But not someone like Anderson, surely? I can`t imagine someone like Wayne Bennett or Tim Sheens or Des Hasler allowing that to happen. What on earth makes anyone think that Daniel Anderson would? It just makes a whole lot more sense to me that Anderson was responsible for selections. And did the board instruct Anderson to keep Anthony Mitchell in reserves? And did they instruct him to put a muzzle on Mateo`s creativity? Or to keep selecting Matt Keating in firsts when that wasn`t working either? Come on, guys - the coach has to take some responsibilty.

OK. Yes, I have no “proof” but that’s why it’s called an opinion. I form my opinions by observations, not by blindly believing every quote I hear/read – which is usually used out of context to support the article being written. On the other side of the coin, can you “prove” there was no push on to get Anderson out? If you can prove this to me, then I will change my opinion. Of course, I am being facetious. We both know neither side can prove anything.

You make some good points – which are hard to argue with. “But his record with Parramatta was not great. Except for a nine week period where he really got that team firing, the rest was very ordinary.” Can’t argue with that. But I will remind you that pretty much everyone on this forum said at the start of Anderson’s tenure “if he avoids the wooden spoon this year, he will have done well”. No one expected anything in 2009. We all acknowledged we had an ordinary side & we accepted we were in for a struggling year. Anderson (that f**ked coach as you put it) realised this very early on but didn’t accept that was the way it had to be. His first move was to put Hayne at 6. We all scoffed at this & Hayne did struggle with it. But, as it turns out, Anderson was only seeing what may well be our future in years to come. He, this f**ked coach, saw very early on that Hayne was our only real marquee player. Of course, the no. 6 experiment failed. Anyway, Hayne really wanted to play his preferred position of fullback. Anderson went back to the drawing board. He decided we needed to play a different style of football if we were going to win games. He came up with a style where the halves played out in front of the forwards – something it appeared Brett Finch did not want to do & so was granted a release. He coupled this with lots of second phase play, creating space for the likes of Hayne to weave his magic. In other words, he saw our short comings & devised a plan to get the best out of what we had. It was unorthodox but it seemed to work for long enough to get us into the GF. You also have to remember that Anderson was hired by the previous administration. Early in 2009, once the new administration had come in, stories suddenly surfaced in the Telecrap about how Parramatta had made a mistake choosing Anderson as coach. And how they should have hired Stephen Kearney (a coincidence??). Yet, Anderson seemed to rise above all this. Call me crazy but that’s what a good coach does.

You bring up Daniel Mortimer & his continual selection as something Anderson should be taken to task for (not the board). OK. If it was purely Anderson’s decision then I agree with that assessment. But... if there is no “arrangement” to have Mortimer in the side, please explain why a coach of Anderson’s obvious ability & experience would continue to play a kid well out of his depth as a key member of the halves. And please explain Kearney’s recent public support of Mortimer in the halves even after the year Mortimer had in 2010. Remember, we struggled to score points this year. Our only real creativity came from Hayne – something the other teams had studied over the offseason & had devised plans to combat. Was Anderson really just that stubborn or was it something more to do with Mortimer’s contract? A contract Anderson (the coach) appears to have had nothing to do with (just like Tahu, coincidentally). If it were written in Mortimer’s contract that he was guaranteed a starting spot, then Anderson’s hands were tied and he was not simply bowing down to the board. This contract theory would go some way to explaining why Mortimer was “rested” & not “dropped” in 2010 as well. Surely, it couldn’t have been to save his confidence. Mortimer is supposedly so “tough”.

The other players you mention such Mateo, Mitchell and Keating (Matt) also pose questions. Perhaps, Mateo simply spat the dummy because the coach believed he was not delivering what he wanted. Who knows? I think it’s funny though, how the pro-Kearney crowd use such an example as Anderson’s inability to man-manage but, in the same breath, laude Kearney’s “toughness & no nonsense” approach as what this side needs. The Mitchell/Keating thing I admit has me buggered. I rate Anthony Mitchell well above Matt Keating in natural ability as a hooker. Can’t figure out what was going on there.

And lastly, [in my opinion] the situation with Hagan was different. Hagan inherited a very good team & turned it to sh!t. Anderson was given sh!t, squeezed what life he could out of it and then was not afforded the opportunity to rebuild the side into what he wanted over a few seasons. He over-achieved with a very average squad in his first year & paid the price because he couldn’t repeat the dose. If those 3 or 4 losses by small margins had been wins this year, he may well have done it again (speculation, of course).

In short, as said before, no one on this forum knows the “whole truth”. Anyone who claims they do is deluded. There are just too many grey areas for mine. Too many questions that have not been fully answered for me to accept the “official” version. We all watched this drama unfold & we all formed opinions of what we think happened. Obviously, some are happy to believe whatever they are told. That’s fair enough. I’m just not one of them.

Bring on 2011!

WOE
 

Casper The Ghost

First Grade
Messages
9,924
OK. Yes, I have no “proof” but that’s why it’s called an opinion. I form my opinions by observations, not by blindly believing every quote I hear/read – which is usually used out of context to support the article being written. On the other side of the coin, can you “prove” there was no push on to get Anderson out? If you can prove this to me, then I will change my opinion. Of course, I am being facetious. We both know neither side can prove anything.

You make some good points – which are hard to argue with. “But his record with Parramatta was not great. Except for a nine week period where he really got that team firing, the rest was very ordinary.” Can’t argue with that. But I will remind you that pretty much everyone on this forum said at the start of Anderson’s tenure “if he avoids the wooden spoon this year, he will have done well”. No one expected anything in 2009. We all acknowledged we had an ordinary side & we accepted we were in for a struggling year. Anderson (that f**ked coach as you put it) realised this very early on but didn’t accept that was the way it had to be. His first move was to put Hayne at 6. We all scoffed at this & Hayne did struggle with it. But, as it turns out, Anderson was only seeing what may well be our future in years to come. He, this f**ked coach, saw very early on that Hayne was our only real marquee player. Of course, the no. 6 experiment failed. Anyway, Hayne really wanted to play his preferred position of fullback. Anderson went back to the drawing board. He decided we needed to play a different style of football if we were going to win games. He came up with a style where the halves played out in front of the forwards – something it appeared Brett Finch did not want to do & so was granted a release. He coupled this with lots of second phase play, creating space for the likes of Hayne to weave his magic. In other words, he saw our short comings & devised a plan to get the best out of what we had. It was unorthodox but it seemed to work for long enough to get us into the GF. You also have to remember that Anderson was hired by the previous administration. Early in 2009, once the new administration had come in, stories suddenly surfaced in the Telecrap about how Parramatta had made a mistake choosing Anderson as coach. And how they should have hired Stephen Kearney (a coincidence??). Yet, Anderson seemed to rise above all this. Call me crazy but that’s what a good coach does.

You bring up Daniel Mortimer & his continual selection as something Anderson should be taken to task for (not the board). OK. If it was purely Anderson’s decision then I agree with that assessment. But... if there is no “arrangement” to have Mortimer in the side, please explain why a coach of Anderson’s obvious ability & experience would continue to play a kid well out of his depth as a key member of the halves. And please explain Kearney’s recent public support of Mortimer in the halves even after the year Mortimer had in 2010. Remember, we struggled to score points this year. Our only real creativity came from Hayne – something the other teams had studied over the offseason & had devised plans to combat. Was Anderson really just that stubborn or was it something more to do with Mortimer’s contract? A contract Anderson (the coach) appears to have had nothing to do with (just like Tahu, coincidentally). If it were written in Mortimer’s contract that he was guaranteed a starting spot, then Anderson’s hands were tied and he was not simply bowing down to the board. This contract theory would go some way to explaining why Mortimer was “rested” & not “dropped” in 2010 as well. Surely, it couldn’t have been to save his confidence. Mortimer is supposedly so “tough”.

The other players you mention such Mateo, Mitchell and Keating (Matt) also pose questions. Perhaps, Mateo simply spat the dummy because the coach believed he was not delivering what he wanted. Who knows? I think it’s funny though, how the pro-Kearney crowd use such an example as Anderson’s inability to man-manage but, in the same breath, laude Kearney’s “toughness & no nonsense” approach as what this side needs. The Mitchell/Keating thing I admit has me buggered. I rate Anthony Mitchell well above Matt Keating in natural ability as a hooker. Can’t figure out what was going on there.

And lastly, [in my opinion] the situation with Hagan was different. Hagan inherited a very good team & turned it to sh!t. Anderson was given sh!t, squeezed what life he could out of it and then was not afforded the opportunity to rebuild the side into what he wanted over a few seasons. He over-achieved with a very average squad in his first year & paid the price because he couldn’t repeat the dose. If those 3 or 4 losses by small margins had been wins this year, he may well have done it again (speculation, of course).

In short, as said before, no one on this forum knows the “whole truth”. Anyone who claims they do is deluded. There are just too many grey areas for mine. Too many questions that have not been fully answered for me to accept the “official” version. We all watched this drama unfold & we all formed opinions of what we think happened. Obviously, some are happy to believe whatever they are told. That’s fair enough. I’m just not one of them.

Bring on 2011!

WOE

What an excellent excellent excellent post Wise Old Eel.
I'll say no more to avoid taking any thunder from you..
Brilliant - just brilliant.

:clap::clap::clap::thumb
 

Eelementary

Post Whore
Messages
57,264
I like Ando, and I think he was harshly treated. However, where from his tenure at Parramatta can we conclude that he's such a good coach?

No disrespect to the man, but neither in 2010 nor 2009 did we play with any semblance of structure. We barely used intelligent football tactics (Albert freaking Kelly plays at fullback and we kick two bombs at him? WTF????)...

Based on his tenure at Parramatta, he didn't really show anything. And I know you're going to say we have/had relatively ordinary cattle, but surely, if he's as great as everone says, he would have been able to instill some sort of structure or obvious gameplan into the side - surely?
 

Casper The Ghost

First Grade
Messages
9,924
I like Ando, and I think he was harshly treated. However, where from his tenure at Parramatta can we conclude that he's such a good coach?

No disrespect to the man, but neither in 2010 nor 2009 did we play with any semblance of structure. We barely used intelligent football tactics (Albert freaking Kelly plays at fullback and we kick two bombs at him? WTF????)...

Based on his tenure at Parramatta, he didn't really show anything. And I know you're going to say we have/had relatively ordinary cattle, but surely, if he's as great as everone says, he would have been able to instill some sort of structure or obvious gameplan into the side - surely?

There is hardly any exception to this... all great coaches had years where their teams did not perform well...... was/is the coach crap because of those poor years? Does a coach go from crap to good back to crap to good back to crap???? Or are there many other factors that impact the overall result of a team/clubs position on the table????
 

Eelementary

Post Whore
Messages
57,264
There is hardly any exception to this... all great coaches had years where their teams did not perform well...... was/is the coach crap because of those poor years? Does a coach go from crap to good back to crap to good back to crap???? Or are there many other factors that impact the overall result of a team/clubs position on the table????

Even in our poorer years under Brian Smith you could tell there was a structure; you could tell that he told the team, "Attack left," or, "Offload at will." Problem was we had no decent spine - McFadden, Paul Green, etc. at halfback, couple of average 5/8's (including Wags, who I adore AS A LOCK) and hookers that were just flat out average, so that it negated his tactics.

Our squads in 2010 and 2009 were fairly ordinary, too. But I, for one, didn't notice any genuine structure to the team in his two years at the helm. I even remember him saying something along those lines - that the team played best when they played ad lib footy.

Don't get me wrong - I like Ando, as a man and a coach. I am just asking the question.
 

Casper The Ghost

First Grade
Messages
9,924
Even in our poorer years under Brian Smith you could tell there was a structure; you could tell that he told the team, "Attack left," or, "Offload at will." Problem was we had no decent spine - McFadden, Paul Green, etc. at halfback, couple of average 5/8's (including Wags, who I adore AS A LOCK) and hookers that were just flat out average, so that it negated his tactics.

Our squads in 2010 and 2009 were fairly ordinary, too. But I, for one, didn't notice any genuine structure to the team in his two years at the helm. I even remember him saying something along those lines - that the team played best when they played ad lib footy.

Don't get me wrong - I like Ando, as a man and a coach. I am just asking the question.

Extremely unusual for a MAN very serious on discipline, someone not backward in saying the tough words and walking-the-talk, etc, NOT TO HAVE STRUCTURE in his psychological makeup... in fact those type of personalities are usually mega insistent on structures because they are very strong on discipline --- slanting more towards the "control freak" side of things... i.e. most superstars and champions, etc, are generally like this.
 

Eelementary

Post Whore
Messages
57,264
Extremely unusual for a MAN very serious on discipline, someone not backward in saying the tough words and walking-the-talk, etc, NOT TO HAVE STRUCTURE in his psychological makeup... in fact those type of personalities are usually mega insistent on structures because they are very strong on discipline --- slanting more towards the "control freak" side of things... i.e. most superstars and champions, etc, are generally like this.

Fair enough - but it still doesn't explain why the side was almost rudderless....At least in that way.
 

Craig Johnston

First Grade
Messages
5,396
having a disciplined personality doesn't subsitute for technical ineptness, otherwise someone like mark latham could be an nrl coach
 

Casper The Ghost

First Grade
Messages
9,924
Fair enough - but it still doesn't explain why the side was almost rudderless....At least in that way.

having a disciplined personality doesn't subsitute for technical ineptness, otherwise someone like mark latham could be an nrl coach

Caused by "others", maybe there is truth in the word "sabotage" !

Mark Latham knows all about the rug being pulled from under his feet (sabotage) and all his world crumbling in all around him.
He had plenty of bones pointing at those responsible.

I feel the comment from The Wise Old Eel above captures the most likely scenario of all our posturings and feelings, etc.

Just keep remembering what Jack Gibson indicated about how success always starts from the top/back office......
How either good will or bad will filters down to the coach, support staff and the players.
 
Last edited:

Stagger eel

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
65,793
probably a good idea you don't elaberate from your post or I'll remove it and any posts relating to it.

please stick to the topic.
 

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