How is Anthony Mundine not considered racist?

[Eels Dude]

I don't care about any blog you put forward. They are opinion based and agenda based. You're not writing a university essay here where you research, and need to provide sources and quotes to back up your arguments. Back it up with FACTS. Just because some random fella says what they think racism means doesn't make it a fact. The only 'faulty' aspect here is your logic.

 

[hellteam]

Anything you say doesn't make it a fact either. this argument all depends on differing views on what racism is. Let's just agree to disagree then. But if you think youre smarter then scholars around the world whose job it is to research and study racism, then good on ya, all hail Eels Dude

 

[Eels Dude]

Anything you say doesn't make it a fact either. this argument all depends on differing views on what racism is. Let's just agree to disagree then. But if you think youre smarter then scholars around the world whose job it is to research and study racism, then good on ya, all hail Eels Dude

The argument is NOT about different views about what racism is. What's considered racist is subjective and you need to understand that. Racism is not a complex term which involves scholars and research... that's why I'm finding it so hard to comprehend your posts. Racism is very simple as term and doesn't need any studying or research to look into what is a very very simple term. All these scholars you're talking about, I don't know what they're looking into and researching but they're wasting their time if all they are doing is looking into getting a proper definition of what 'racism' refers to. These scholars you're talking about may be very intelligent people, but you can't just change definitions based on your OWN opinions, agendas and research and expect everyone to just accept it because you say so. We're not talking about scientific theories here where A=B one day, but then with a bit more research we find out A=C. We're talking about society and culture which is dependent on not just the opinion of a few scholars, but the entire society whom we are part of.

 

[Knights_Premiers]

Having watched an Australian story episode about the remote Aboriginal communites, I can say that the children find themselves in the lowest rungs of society. There is no doubt they are disadvantaged and it is unfair to them. However, the Aboriginals who DO have opportunities don't grab them. On my way to work I see numerous Aboriginal families sitting outside their homes drinking in the morning and afternoon. Their kids run around half naked outside on push bikes during the day. There is a school just down the road, yet their kids clearly aren't made to attend.

They rely on benefits and have no aspirations. Who says they can't go out and get a job to contribute to society. The ABS 2006 census reported a massive 43% of Indigenous people aged 15-64 were not in the workforce. I think the reason for this is behind the belief they hold. The fact that this land is their land and therefore they have a right to do what they want. The belief that non-Indigenous people owe them for seizing the land from their ancestors. Indigenous people living in average Australian communities know they will be looked after because everyone now shares these beliefs and white people feel guilt. If I was ingrained with that mindset as a child, I wouldn't have gone to school either.

 

[Knights_Premiers]

Hellteam, I think you're misunderstanding what racism is. By your logic, an affluent race cannot be discriminated against. It doesn't make sense. An act can be called racism regardless of the victims position in society. My cousin works at a primary school and Aboriginal students were able to get their own photo together along with the photo of the whole student group. Why couldn't the Middle Eastern or African or Caucasion students have a photo together? There is no doubt that the other children in this instance would have felt inferior to the Aborginals.

 

[mrpwnd]

Okay, i really think people are blowing this way out of proportion.
The media and Timana Tahu apparently seem to think this is a major issue. The question is, is it?
Are we in such a horrible situation that racism is used so cruelly and with intent throughout NSW that there must be some severe action(like giving away a NSW rep jersey). My answer to that is no. What Joey has said is something completely exaggerated by the media and people on this forum. What if he wasn't a renowned NRL/blues legend, noone would give a sh*t. You guys need to understand, this is his and Tahu's agenda, not yours and most certainly not mine. I won't lie, i provide a few racial comments every now and then, but just like Joey's comments it's something neither me nor my mates have ever been overly hostile over(fyi im Korean and mates are various cultures).

 

[Pete Cash]

What's that got to do with racism though???? It's a two way street. You keep contradicting yourself by overcomplicating the term racism as something determined based on history and disadvantage bla bla bla. It's got nothing to do with privelage or anything like that. You've still not explained one reason why 'black people can't truly be racist' without referring to disadvantage etc. That's irrelevant. Sometimes these scholars right with an agenda as opposed to taking an objective view and that's where the failure in their logic lies.

Of course anyone can be literally racist. racism is the belief that one race is better than another. This thread is full of racism towards indigenous Australians for example. One fellow even said white people are some kind of bringer of civilisations when all they did bring was a bunch of imperialism about the place.

Disadvantaged people don't really have the social position to be meaningfully racist though. People keep saying go to these aboriginal communities and see how racist they are, but that makes no sense. I have literally never been impacted by racism in my life. I think it is sad that people hate my race though. Sad that anyone is so damaged that they attribute an entire race of people with negative characteristic be it white or black. The facts are though I cannot be impacted by racism because I am so secure in my position. I am never going to lose out because I am white. That is fact.

 

[hellteam]

The argument is NOT about different views about what racism is. What's considered racist is subjective and you need to understand that. Racism is not a complex term which involves scholars and research... that's why I'm finding it so hard to comprehend your posts. Racism is very simple as term and doesn't need any studying or research to look into what is a very very simple term. All these scholars you're talking about, I don't know what they're looking into and researching but they're wasting their time if all they are doing is looking into getting a proper definition of what 'racism' refers to. These scholars you're talking about may be very intelligent people, but you can't just change definitions based on your OWN opinions, agendas and research and expect everyone to just accept it because you say so. We're not talking about scientific theories here where A=B one day, but then with a bit more research we find out A=C. We're talking about society and culture which is dependent on not just the opinion of a few scholars, but the entire society whom we are part of.

I know, we're dependent on people like you - who think that just because we as Australians aren't walking up to Aboriginals and saying, hey f**k you black merkin- we're not racist.

Ones that think it's possible for Aboriginals to be racist against white people just because they don't like us, or they shout names at us when we walk past, even though they have nothing in today's society and will most likely die 20 years before us.

It's not simple, racism is the most complex problem in the world (so many wars, genocide etc), these academics are researching it and explaining it to convey to people that it's not just as simple as people think it is - to try to change Australia for the better.

Hellteam, I think you're misunderstanding what racism is. By your logic, an affluent race cannot be discriminated against. It doesn't make sense. An act can be called racism regardless of the victims position in society. My cousin works at a primary school and Aboriginal students were able to get their own photo together along with the photo of the whole student group. Why couldn't the Middle Eastern or African or Caucasion students have a photo together? There is no doubt that the other children in this instance would have felt inferior to the Aborginals.

If you read my posts before I argued that minorities (Aboriginals) could racially abuse others, but they wouldn't be considered truly racist. Pete Cash up there just reiterated my point about how they don't have the social position to be properly racist.

Aka Anthony Mundine: the original question in the thread.

 

[Pete Cash]

See, there is a massive difference between f**k you skip and holding the social power to deny a person a job. (just an example)

 

[hellteam]

Okay, i really think people are blowing this way out of proportion.
The media and Timana Tahu apparently seem to think this is a major issue. The question is, is it?
Are we in such a horrible situation that racism is used so cruelly and with intent throughout NSW that there must be some severe action(like giving away a NSW rep jersey). My answer to that is no. What Joey has said is something completely exaggerated by the media and people on this forum. What if he wasn't a renowned NRL/blues legend, noone would give a sh*t. You guys need to understand, this is his and Tahu's agenda, not yours and most certainly not mine. I won't lie, i provide a few racial comments every now and then, but just like Joey's comments it's something neither me nor my mates have ever been overly hostile over(fyi im Korean and mates are various cultures).

That's part of the problem, most Australian's aren't purposefully racist. As I was saying to Eels Dude, its not as simple as just going up to someone and saying I hate you and your race. But as Mundine often argues, it's entrenched in the culture, that's why things like this become such an issue.

 

[Johns Magic]

I agree with Hellteam in that minority ethnic groups really cannot be classed as racist as they have no power to enforce that racism.

Well you and hellteam can enjoy being stupid together

 

[Tigers_are_Pro]

It's racist that minorities can't be called racist because it's racist to favour one race over another.

In short, one racist act makes another act racist which is racist.

Racist!

 

[fuggitt]

Hellteam, what you uni you at?
Is that the sh*te they are teaching you fella? you need to step out into the real world..
Eh Pat Cash, i dont need to start a discussion on the benefits that the coloured person (ie those traditionaly from europe) have brought the undeveloped world-speaks for itself.
As for whether me a traditional 5th generation indigenous (i was born here) person has to feel guilty for the sh*t of others then nah..
Go and cheack out yr australian history-google Thomas Sutcliffe Mort-he's my gg grandfather but he's also YOUR history-how he helped the aboriginal people of sydney and the south coast is well documented-iin the 1840's in sydney his driver was an aboriginal boy-and he did it coz he commanded so much respect in society that he wanted to demonstrate that they were just like us...
BTW i personally would mouth of (and i do) at anyone who comes into my orbit-but that doesnt (and hasnt) stopped me from welcoming anyone into my house for a cuppa or a feed...even deluded uni arts graduates like yourselves...

 

[BOMAR]

You have to pay money to go to uni, it's not all free from the government.

Although it's good to see you didn't waste my tax money, you obviously didn't even go to high school.

Its free for your best mate that lived next door to you all your life and sat next to you in class for 13 years, if he's aboriginal.

 

[no name]

It's called AbStudy genius. Free tertiary education as well as a fortnightly allowance significantly greater than the equivalent payment to everyone else.

I don't care whether someone is black, white or purple. I DO care when they get access to free education and centrelink payments and take it for granted, while everyone else has a huge HECS debt to pay off and needs to work through uni because Youth Allowance simply isn't enough to live off.

Academics know sweet f*ck all about anything in the real world. I did my degree in Economics, and you can be damn sure anything you learn in an economics textbook doesn't work in the real world.

Like that other guy said, get out of the lecture theater and go and visit some Aboriginal communities and see for yourself. Part of the problem is that opportunities are limited, but most of the problem is that they don't make the most of the opportunities they DO have.

EDIT: Back to the topic. Mundine is an idiot and anything that comes out of his mouth is drivel. We would all be better off if the media shunned him.

Um, where do i sign up for this 'free' uni education?
Is it at the same place where Aboriginal people get free houses and cars?

Abstudy does provide fortnightly payments, although I don't think they are significantly higher, but doesn't cover HECS.

As for 'free' access to centrelink payments, everyone have the choice to get a job or be a bludger.

 

[StormChaser]

Abstudy is the equivalent of Austudy! It's means tested in exactly the same way Austudy is it just has a different name.........for reasons best known to the Govt.

 

[no name]

Abstudy is the equivalent of Austudy! It's means tested in exactly the same way Austudy is it just has a different name.........for reasons best known to the Govt.

But.... But... Aboriginal people get so much more opportunity but waste it.

 

[Rusty]

Hellteam, I think you're misunderstanding what racism is. By your logic, an affluent race cannot be discriminated against. It doesn't make sense. An act can be called racism regardless of the victims position in society. My cousin works at a primary school and Aboriginal students were able to get their own photo together along with the photo of the whole student group. Why couldn't the Middle Eastern or African or Caucasion students have a photo together? There is no doubt that the other children in this instance would have felt inferior to the Aborginals.

Because if they did, then that would be considered racist...

 

[hellteam]

Hellteam, what you uni you at?
Is that the sh*te they are teaching you fella? you need to step out into the real world..
Eh Pat Cash, i dont need to start a discussion on the benefits that the coloured person (ie those traditionaly from europe) have brought the undeveloped world-speaks for itself.
As for whether me a traditional 5th generation indigenous (i was born here) person has to feel guilty for the sh*t of others then nah..
Go and cheack out yr australian history-google Thomas Sutcliffe Mort-he's my gg grandfather but he's also YOUR history-how he helped the aboriginal people of sydney and the south coast is well documented-iin the 1840's in sydney his driver was an aboriginal boy-and he did it coz he commanded so much respect in society that he wanted to demonstrate that they were just like us...
BTW i personally would mouth of (and i do) at anyone who comes into my orbit-but that doesnt (and hasnt) stopped me from welcoming anyone into my house for a cuppa or a feed...even deluded uni arts graduates like yourselves...

You talk so much sh*t, you say your some kind of educated genius but you can't even put a sentence together. And didn't you say you were the arts graduate in one of your older posts? Because I'm not.

After reading that ridiculous thread you made I'm not even going to listen to anything you have to say.

 

[Doomednow]

Um, where do i sign up for this 'free' uni education?
Is it at the same place where Aboriginal people get free houses and cars?

Abstudy does provide fortnightly payments, although I don't think they are significantly higher, but doesn't cover HECS.

As for 'free' access to centrelink payments, everyone have the choice to get a job or be a bludger.

Abstudy is significantly better than austudy. From memory a uni student of aboriginal descent is entitled to receive twice as much (or near enough to it) financial assistance from the government as a student not of Aboriginal descent. I can't remember what the financial assistance directly related to univeristy fees is (from memory its free or almost free).

Not complaining. I think this sort of thing is necessary and beneficial. Many Aboriginal students face significant barriers to overcome if they are to enter and succeed in tertiary education (and elsewhere). But its not right to deny that these sort of government policies don't exist or are insignificant.

Yes Aboriginals are granted extra opportunities by the Australian governement to succeed. What the ignorant fail to realise is that they often start from a serious disadvantage (governed by many things, including in some places institutionalised discrimination) that cannot be fully addressed by the concessions they are given.