Is Cameron Smith the best No 9 ever?

[mongoose]

People underrating Smith are ludicrous. Sorry but he has far more skills than any hookers from the 80s or before. Hooker is basically like a second halfback today who just plays in the ruck.

The amount of work Smith does for the Storm in so many different facets cannot be underestimated. Look how badly they fell apart in last years grand final without Smith.

Smith will be the best hooker of all-time by the time he is 30.

 

[nomarg]

Walters or Elias can be argued over- how anyone can compare cam smith to them is beyond me. HE IS NO EVEN THE VEST IN THE NRL !! let alone ever!

 

[Noa]

What do you expect the bloke to say

"Na im heaps better, always will be", Steve is a legend player and even better bloke, as modest as they come. You could probably ask him and he'll tell you Alan Tongue is a better hooker than he was
Proves nothing mate

FTR, Steve had a good kicking game, but as tends to happen when you've got one of the best boots of all time in Ricky Start, he never needed to use it. And his passing was as crisp and accurate as you could find, from Walters to Stuart to Daley to Meninga they could cover well over the width of the footy field in a matter of seconds with crisp long perfectly thrown balls. So i dont know where you get the idea the man's passing game was average

Whatever way you look at his comments there is a struck match between them but Smith still has 4 or 5 good years.

And no, Boxhead was not a good kicker and his passing game was adequate but lacked the variation & subtlety he'd need today.

 

[simostorm]

I dunno. I got shouted this hooker for my 21st...she was incredible. A great 'ruck'. And no 5 o'clock shadow!!!

haha..

 

[Chachi]

LOL at everyone trying to determine the best hooker of all time when most people here have only been watching the game for 20-30 years max.

Smith is the best hooker in the NRL right now, and probably by a big margin. Would he have been smashed in scrums during the 60's? More than likely.

 

[gong_eagle]

he is the most consistant in throwing forward passes and getting away with it

 

[nomarg]

he is the most consistant in throwing forward passes and getting away with it

echo.....echo......echo.....

 

[Smithtown]

I can see what you're saying - but I'd probably opt for the 1982 change where the non-offending team got the feed and the loose-head. Still, clubs didn't suddenly in 1982 (or 1983 with the change-over rule) dump all the 'old school" hookers.

Thinking about this further, I think a good case can be made for 'old school' hookers being phased out around this period (82/83/84) - and it probably makes sense given the two rule changes mentioned. Going through the clubs the following happened:

Wests: Mountier > Fallah
St George: Dowling > Guider
Easts: Masterman > Garland > Trewhella
Manly: Krilich > Brown > Cochrane
Souths: Stewart > Fenech
Canterbury: Peponis > Johnstone > Bugden
Cronulla: McMartin > Beckett
Balmain: Whittaker > Elias
Norths: Ritchie > Wright
Parramatta: Edge > Moseley

Obviously there were quite a few retirees in this original lot, but clearly that is a philosophical change in hooker styles all around the same period.

Long term understudies, or like for like players such as Pat English at Canterbury or Wayne Honeywood at Norths were passed over for new 'open' type hookers that were faster and more mobile - and definitely younger.

Looking back now it may have been quite a revolutionary period for the game that passed many people over.

 

[mortz]

Smith IMO is below Farah - could never see Smith winning a Dally M or even getting close whereas Farah has been just nudged for second and 4th this year .

As for all time - I can only speak for the late 80s onwards but Benny and Steve Walters are way out in front for mine Smith probably around the same as Buderus both behind Farah

you havent been watching the game long....

 

[mongoose]

Smith IMO is below Farah - could never see Smith winning a Dally M or even getting close whereas Farah has been just nudged for second and 4th this year .

farah got that close to winning a dally m? :shock:....whoa he must be good.

smith actually won the thing.

 

[mightybears]

Most people would probably say yes.

Why do you think?

Most people would laugh at the statement [even taking into account the numbering of hookers in the past]. He is arguable one of the very best 'No.9's' in the way that position has been played in the last 25 years.

Way back when [before the 80's!], he wouldn't have played as a hooker at all.

See Smithtown's post No.68 above

 

[RL1908]

Thinking about this further, I think a good case can be made for 'old school' hookers being phased out around this period (82/83/84) - and it probably makes sense given the two rule changes mentioned. Going through the clubs the following happened:

Wests: Mountier > Fallah
St George: Dowling > Guider
Easts: Masterman > Garland > Trewhella
Manly: Krilich > Brown > Cochrane
Souths: Stewart > Fenech
Canterbury: Peponis > Johnstone > Bugden
Cronulla: McMartin > Beckett
Balmain: Whittaker > Elias
Norths: Ritchie > Wright
Parramatta: Edge > Moseley

Obviously there were quite a few retirees in this original lot, but clearly that is a philosophical change in hooker styles all around the same period.

Long term understudies, or like for like players such as Pat English at Canterbury or Wayne Honeywood at Norths were passed over for new 'open' type hookers that were faster and more mobile - and definitely younger.

Looking back now it may have been quite a revolutionary period for the game that passed many people over.

Good observations about club football - but it was still a slow process towards acceptance in club footy, and definitely in rep footy. I well remember Elias, Cochrane and the others of similar new style having many detractors at club level, let alone rep opportunites. At the Test level the selectors still preferred older style hookers Royce Simmons and Greg Conescu right through the mid/late 1980s - the revolution of hooker wasn't accepted until as late as 1989-90-91 when the Walters brothers and Elias made it to the Kangaroos. (Elias played Tests for Aust in 1985 and 1988, but didn't cement a permanent place until the 1990 Ashes tour).

 

[Pete Cash]

There is a lot of bad stuff you can say about Cameron Smith but he does hold the Melbourne Club together more than any player. He may not be a freak like Inglis but he is an ultra successful player. One of those players that success seems to follow.

As Mongoose said Melbourne fell to bits without Smith in the 2008 Grand Final.

People don't like him because he is a grub but his influence over one of the greatest sides of all time cannot be doubted.

 

[natheel]

atm he is but not of all time

thinking of storm hookers.....what happened to richie swain after he played for broncos?

 

[Hanscholo]

He is the quiet acheiver in sides, but his impact cant be ignored, his defence alone is enough to have him in the side. In terms of the really effective attacking hookers of his generation he doesnt quite stack up with Buderus, Steve Walters, Kerrod Walters and Benny Elias. So i wouldnt say best ever, i still the the four i just mentioned were better allround footballers - The thing with Smith is, he never plays in bad sides either all of those guys i mentioned had a run of being in pretty average sides and they were forced to dominate games.

 

[timka4]

imo cant really compare hookers or halves from different eras, they each have different roles in different game states soo yeh

 

[markieboy]

Well it appears that the general consesus on this forum is that Smith is the best No 9 of all time - so well done Mr Smith!

 

[Matt23]

Well it appears that the general consesus on this forum is that Smith is the best No 9 of all time - so well done Mr Smith!

The general consesus of who, you and the rest of your Victorian mates, keeping telling yourselves he's the best of all time all time: -
Noel Kelly
Steve Walters
Ben Elias
Danny Buderus
Max Krillich
Daylight
Cam Smith

 

[Smithtown]

Good observations about club football - but it was still a slow process towards acceptance in club footy, and definitely in rep footy. I well remember Elias, Cochrane and the others of similar new style having many detractors at club level, let alone rep opportunites. At the Test level the selectors still preferred older style hookers Royce Simmons and Greg Conescu right through the mid/late 1980s - the revolution of hooker wasn't accepted until as late as 1989-90-91 when the Walters brothers and Elias made it to the Kangaroos. (Elias played Tests for Aust in 1985 and 1988, but didn't cement a permanent place until the 1990 Ashes tour).

Well revolutions do start at base level, and I think the examples demonstrate a relatively quick process. Some of the coaches of that era were some of the great thinkers - Warren Ryan, Roy Masters, Bob Fulton. Ironic that the greatest coach still plied ahead with an old style hooker, but given the backline at his disposal the Michelin Man could have played dummy half and they wouldn't have been any worse off!

Agreed Royce Simmons is definitely the fly in the ointment theory - Conescu was perhaps more of a political selection; but granted he was more of the same.

I suppose Elias being picked in 1985 - albeit briefly - showed it had spread to National thinking. Can't recall his debut test (he may have played a shocker), but can recall the many question marks over his defence in that time. That may have been why Simmons was preferred in the long term.

 

[typicalfan]

I think Cameron Smith has the potential to be the best hooker of the modern era, he has continued to develop his game. His running game and his leadership have been improving out of sight in 2009. Steve Walters is definitely the benchmark and I would have Buderus at 2. Ben Elias was a great player as well but wasn't as influential as the first 2, he wasn't even the most influential player in his forward pack at the Tigers with Junior around.

Cameron Smith totally left Robbie Farah for dead in game 1 & 2 in origin this year which imo stamped his class over the rest of the current crop of hookers. I think sometimes people don't realise how much he adds to his side and why he is so good.

Having said that he has a fair bit to go until he reaches Boxhead or even Bedsy but Smith is only 26 and theoretically should be coming into his prime in the next 2-3 seasons.