Is Cleary a dud?

[franklin2323]

If you want Anderson in the team because you think he is a better player than those currently selected, i won't argue against your opinion. But when you say he will add size to the bench, you are flat out wrong.

Yeah. I couldn't size and that. Though he started last year at Newcastle over much bigger players like Laurie. Again this week he starts with the bigger Weston and Areaitti on the bench. If he couldn't handle it he wouldn't be there

 

[franklin2323]

I haven't finished reading the thread (and it's been a good read lately, interesting points on both sides), I just wanted to draw a bit of attention to these two players. Leilua and Moga have both suffered major setbacks to their careers and it will take years (if ever) for them to recover. It's obviously impossible to know, but would they have experienced such huge setbacks to their careers if they were given more time outside of the elite competition to grow (Leilua as a person, Moga physically)?

Jennings is another without a proper development he never went back once in the top grade.

Players like Moylan have done enough in the lower grades. Cartwright definately can't play NRL yet or even maybe even next year. Though next year he can still play NYC.

If he gets a few NSW Cup games this year & handles it. He should be in that grade next year. Not finish in NYC as he's old enough. Then a year or 2 in Windsor

 

[betcats]

I'd be giving Moss a run for Windsor soon, after DWZ and Scarlett come back.

 

[franklin2323]

I'd be giving Moss a run for Windsor soon, after DWZ and Scarlett come back.

DWZ is back but yeah same. If he struggles he goes back and the coaches and he knows what to work on

 

[Panther_Daz]

Gus has said they have identified 6-8 NYC players to play 6 weeks in NSW Cup this year as a part of their development.

 

[MaxPower]

Yeah. I couldn't size and that. Though he started last year at Newcastle over much bigger players like Laurie. Again this week he starts with the bigger Weston and Areaitti on the bench. If he couldn't handle it he wouldn't be there

So you have changed your opinion that we need size on the bench?

 

[Dogs Of War]

They will bring in juniors on a gradual basis, just the same way Wayne Bennet, Des Hasler, Craig Bellamy and Tim Sheens have. A bit of patience and I think we might be able to build a team that makes the semis every year, not 1 in 10.

This. Bulldogs have been doing this for years. Thurston was brought through as a bench player at the Bulldogs even though most of us where screaming for him to start as he was carving up the NSW Cup Level. Barba, Nate Myles, Astotasi were exactly the same. Your seeing it with Klemmer at the moment who I dare say will be dropped to NSW Cup to learn to play longer minutes more so in preparation for starting next year (and also being able to contribute off the bench when required in FG).

It's the best way to go, the player knows that the result isn't because of there performance (win lose or draw), rather they learn how to contribute at that level, get a feel for the pace of the game at that level, and understand what they need to work on. It also allows the coach to see if they are ready for that level.

I think you guys have an awesome coach, who will hopefully see you making the semi's most years with his fairly simple gameplans (though attractive to watch).

 

[Pomoz]

Gus has said they have identified 6-8 NYC players to play 6 weeks in NSW Cup this year as a part of their development.

"Ivan, I have a cunning plan. A plan more cunning than a Professor of cunning at Cunning University"........

 

[Pomoz]

This. Bulldogs have been doing this for years. Thurston was brought through as a bench player at the Bulldogs even though most of us where screaming for him to start as he was carving up the NSW Cup Level. Barba, Nate Myles, Astotasi were exactly the same.

Good one Dogs. You did it with Barba and people were going nuts to have him in first grade. I think it was Folkes who made sure he was introduced slowly. In fact he got a lot of flak off the media as well as the fans. I reckon he deserves credit for trying to help Ben, rather than take the easy option and drop him in the deep end.

 

[maple_69]

Great point about Cleary's gameplans.
While we are still executing poorly in many departments there is clearly an attempt to play a more expansive game, engage the outside backs and work for second phase play. We're a much more attractive team to watch this year although just as frustrating presently.

I think a great example of the change is allowing Mckendry to offload. Its playing t his skillset but aldo provides him with much more confidence to know he can play his natural game.

The one think I have been disappointed in is the lack of support play. Whare at fullback is part of the problem but we have been guilty of it for years and need t learn from Melbourne, Manly etc who pounce on any half chance.

 

[franklin2323]

So you have changed your opinion that we need size on the bench?

I still can't find the size of Anderson anywhere. I assume your right though. He has played lock also so if he was too small Weston would start & he would be 13.

If size or skill was a concern wouldn't Weston (who is in the FT squad) or Areiatti start?? He is starting over a NRL squad member with 62 games so must have some size & skill about him




We need impact off the bench size a good impact. Matt Robinson isn't that big but can offload & Break tackles. A fit Masoe would start over him

 

[franklin2323]

This. Bulldogs have been doing this for years.

You make some good points.

Though what if there wasn't Anasta in front of JT. Or Patten at fullback would they still of got held back?

That's where we are very average players not quality like mentioned in the way.

I remember Orford leaving & Bellamy being cut & making Cronk who was a centre as a half til he found someone. That was a master stroke. Not everything needs to be planned to work.

 

[Big Mick]

Cronk was a utility off the bench who mostly played half....he may have played centre a few games...but he was predominately a halfback in the juniors from memory

 

[Big Mick]

http://media.smh.com.au/sport/sports-hq/battle-of-haves-and-have-nots-4163747.html

I think Gus gives the indication of what Penrith's plan is here.

Apart from Austin or Moylan there is really noone banging the door down from our own ranks between 20-23...and they are waiting for the likes of Cartwright etc to develop.

That's why the recruitment had to go down the path it did imo.

Totally agree with him as far as the "haves and have nots".

He also mentions the reliance on NYC in the past...and more emphasis on reserve grade.

 

[Dogs Of War]

You make some good points.

Though what if there wasn't Anasta in front of JT. Or Patten at fullback would they still of got held back?

That's where we are very average players not quality like mentioned in the way.

I remember Orford leaving & Bellamy being cut & making Cronk who was a centre as a half til he found someone. That was a master stroke. Not everything needs to be planned to work.

Anasta was in front of jt but even then you knew anasta should have been in the pack, and what thurston was doing in reserve grade with 20+ points hauls said he was a gun. When jt played he went straight into the halves in first grade.

As for cooper cronk, he played off the bench for a year while they were working out where to play him. So it's no surprise that when his time came he was ready to accept the challenge. You guys are seeing that at the moment with Tom Humble, thank the tigers for that.

 

[chrisD]

Didn't JT debut at 19? And couldn't get a start during a period where the dogs were performing very well and had two stars in front of him. It's not remotely comparable to the likes of Moylan and Austin being described as not ready. And what does Humble have to do with the discussion?

 

[franklin2323]

Didn't JT debut at 19? And couldn't get a start during a period where the dogs were performing very well and had two stars in front of him. It's not remotely comparable to the likes of Moylan and Austin being described as not ready. And what does Humble have to do with the discussion?

That was my response. Easy to say hold them off if your Melbourne, Bris etc.

Luke Patten was the 1. Left to ESL Barba came in. If he left 12 months earlier would they or bought someone else? Or played him sooner?

Same with JT. 2004 they won the comp. So it's not like he had nuffies in front of him. If we were winning or had quality in those positions it would be different

 

[betcats]

I agree with the Dogs method of bringing them in, even in our situation I don't mind making them play for Wndsor before FG.

The only one I really disagree for us this season in Matt Robinson. Matt has done his nsw cup apprenticeship for the Vulcans and then for Windsor. Cleary then slowly introduced him to FG and by the end of the season he was playing quality footy.

To send him back NSW cup this season seems really counter productive to me, especially considering Ciraldo is a walk up start and Smith and Newton have both had runs this season.

Moylan as well I think should have some FG under his belt this season already but I think the injuries to Roberts and Coote have effected the plans for him.

 

[Nealo 12]

Getting back to the title of this thread... yes it is starting to look that way !

 

[MrAnonymous]

his obsession of playing a center at fullback when he has a quite capable one in nsw cup make me think

yes clearly he is a dud