Is Cleary a dud?

[billypilgrimnz]

And we're doing that with DWZ. I'm amazed (I probably shouldn't be) at the number of people here that think DWZ at FB is good for the team. Referencing last year's performances is laughable - we could do the same for Edwards, Mansour, Maloney and others to justify not changing the team.

For clarity, it's DWZ's lack of a FB skillset, not "scratchy performances", and his greater suitability for a centre position (and the ability to make it his own) that has me wanting to see other options. I don't think we want to be still trying to figure out our FB during Origin period.

Having said that, if Aekins comes in at centre it allows him to find the pace of NRL. Might be better for his longer term development.

DWZ is solid, no qualms with him except he has hands like feet sometimes, but nothing beats the claims on here that he should be starting fullback for NZ over a fit RTS in terms of one-eyed bias.

 

[herbert henry1908]

And we're doing that with DWZ. I'm amazed (I probably shouldn't be) at the number of people here that think DWZ at FB is good for the team. Referencing last year's performances is laughable - we could do the same for Edwards, Mansour, Maloney and others to justify not changing the team.

For clarity, it's DWZ's lack of a FB skillset, not "scratchy performances", and his greater suitability for a centre position (and the ability to make it his own) that has me wanting to see other options. I don't think we want to be still trying to figure out our FB during Origin period.

Having said that, if Aekins comes in at centre it allows him to find the pace of NRL. Might be better for his longer term development.

I'm rating DWZ on what he's actually done at FB in first grade, not on potential based off of reserve grade form. Yes, I saw enough in DWZ last year to say he deserves an extended run.

 

[herbert henry1908]

Have to disagree with Luai - very short term focus. He'll be in the halves from next year - no point putting him to FB (or hooker either) at this point.

It would allow him to hit the ground running next year, where he'll likely have a lot of work to do considering our no.7 has very limited attacking ability. He can play as a second 5/8 in attack.

 

[herbert henry1908]

For me, the funniest thing about this forum is the weird positional changes a lot of people randomly suggest. Maloney to hooker! Cleary to Hooker! DWZ to center. Blake to fullback! etc.

Well I don't think all those suggestions are weird.

Maloney to hooker is very weird. He can't tackle.

Blake to Fullback would make sense if he was a good ball handler, but he's not.

Cleary to Hooker I believe does make some sense, he played some Hooker in juniors & I think some of his attributes suit that position. Particularly his running game and defence. I could also see Cleary playing fullback actually, he's very similar to his Dad in that he's very versatile.

DWZ to centre doesn't seem too weird to me. Not easy to learn the new defensive reads, but I think he could do it.

 

[Abacus]

I'm rating DWZ on what he's actually done at FB in first grade

So am I.

 

[Abacus]

It would allow him to hit the ground running next year, where he'll likely have a lot of work to do considering our no.7 has very limited attacking ability. He can play as a second 5/8 in attack.

And then we have to figure out who the FB will be i.e. short term focus.

 

[Flashstep]

Serious question, who do you liken DWZ to as a FB? I'm thinking Inglis a few years ago, only thing is I don't think DWZ is as big, quick or powerful.

Are there any teams other than Souths that have won a GF in the last decade with this style of FB?

Yea probably a lesser GI or Josh Dugan, I get what you’re saying a ball playing fullback is a big asset these days, problem is there is none on the market besides Gutherson and he has severe injury problems which doesn’t help a club like us, highly doubt we could afford him anyway.

Maybe Aekins is the answer but realistically we have bigger problems than playing DWZ at fullback and after last season I think he deserves a fair shot at making the position his.

 

[Abacus]

after last season I think he deserves a fair shot at making the position his.

This is the bit I struggle with. How long is "a fair shot."

I get that I'm more old-school than most here in that you pick your players where they best suit the team. If DWZ had an extra yard of pace, a bit of footwork or some ballplay I could understand persisting.

In the absence of any of these, it seems to me that we're delaying the inevitable while we have an immediate need at centre which DWZ could remedy longer term.

 

[Kilkenny]

This is the bit I struggle with. How long is "a fair shot."

I get that I'm more old-school than most here in that you pick your players where they best suit the team. If DWZ had an extra yard of pace, a bit of footwork or some ballplay I could understand persisting.

In the absence of any of these, it seems to me that we're delaying the inevitable while we have an immediate need at centre which DWZ could remedy longer term.

Personally I don’t think DWZ has the attributes to succeed in the centre position although at the same time our options are extremely thin now Whare and potential back up in Cartwright are out.

The delay in announcing the replacement for Phillips may mean Gould is exploring picking up someone from elsewhere. Can’t see any other reason for the delay. Doesn’t have to promote TOO as he becomes available in June anyway as one of our development squad.

 

[The Realist]

For me, the funniest thing about this forum is the weird positional changes a lot of people randomly suggest. Maloney to hooker! Cleary to Hooker! DWZ to center. Blake to fullback! etc.

DWZ to centre is not that weird. He has played there a few times and actually did quite well. Never seen anyone suggest Blake to fullback - that would be crazy.

Maloney to Hooker is complete madness however Cleary to Hooker is not a crazy as one would think. He is an excellent defender, fit, a good runner (without being overly quick/powerful/agile) has an understanding of positional play (spine) without the exceptional vision of an elite half, is level headed and generally makes good decisions. Out of all the players in the NRL he'd be one of the closest to Cam Smith.

 

[tripster]

The thing that counts against DWZ moving to centre in my mind is that centre is, in the modern game, a position that requires excellent defensive attributes, particularly defensive decision making. It is probably the most difficult position defensively on the field. I don’t think it is something that DWZ, if switched immediately to centre, would be ready to do well.

Blake and Whare are defensively very different in that regard. Whare makes good reads so doesn’t often miss his man and need to turn and chase to make the tackle or need to rely on his lateral movement.

Blake’s decision making is not as good. He often misses his man but is able to turn and chase (and quickly catch whoever passed him) or otherwise has the speed to move laterally and cover.

 

[franklin2323]

Yea probably a lesser GI or Josh Dugan, I get what you’re saying a ball playing fullback is a big asset these days, problem is there is none on the market besides Gutherson and he has severe injury problems which doesn’t help a club like us, highly doubt we could afford him anyway.

Maybe Aekins is the answer but realistically we have bigger problems than playing DWZ at fullback and after last season I think he deserves a fair shot at making the position his.

Which leads me to say if everyone else has a ball playing fb. Aren't we behind the 8 ball not having one?

 

[BxTom]

Whilst we are playing crap it's worth remembering that we are 6 points off of 1st place and 2 points outside of the eight. The big question is will we improve?

 

[Panfa]

There has been some positives with our attack in the last 2 weeks however there has been more negatives in our defence we leaked 30 against bottom of the table titans and 24 against half a reserve grade cronulla.

 

[Westernised Panther]

There has been some positives with our attack in the last 2 weeks however there has been more negatives in our defence we leaked 30 against bottom of the table titans and 24 against half a reserve grade cronulla.

What’s worse is that second half against Cronulla was on the back of what was, in my opinion, the best half of footy that Penrith has played all season.

Attack is starting to look good but there are real issues with defence.......and match fitness.

 

[franklin2323]

Whilst we are playing crap it's worth remembering that we are 6 points off of 1st place and 2 points outside of the eight. The big question is will we improve?

Not where we are that is the issue. Been relatively injury free and played ordinary sides (Storm aside). This was the easy part of the draw

 

[Aliceinwonderland]

Whilst we are playing crap it's worth remembering that we are 6 points off of 1st place and 2 points outside of the eight. The big question is will we improve?

I listened carefully to Gu's talk last night about the Panthers. He spoke of lessons that need to be learnt and learnt well. About how for past 2 years team would play crap for 75 mins and pull it out of the fire with a couple of minutes of brilliance.

These are hard lesson that need to be learnt. Not easy for the either players or supporters. Hopefully the team grabs these lessons and takes them on board.

Gus said this quietly but with great conviction. How we go this season will depend on how quickly these lessons of playing for 80 mins are learnt. Once these are learnt outcomes obviously will be much better.

I'm sure players who slacken off and try to hide during these games will be shown the door at seasons end.


I am quietly confident that we will turn this season around. Maybe not today but the lessons learnt will be worth it.

(Gus was speaking on 100% footy)

 

[Abacus]

I listened carefully to Gu's talk last night about the Panthers. He spoke of lessons that need to be learnt and learnt well. About how for past 2 years team would play crap for 75 mins and pull it out of the fire with a couple of minutes of brilliance.

These are hard lesson that need to be learnt. Not easy for the either players or supporters. Hopefully the team grabs these lessons and takes them on board.

Gus said this quietly but with great conviction. How we go this season will depend on how quickly these lessons of playing for 80 mins are learnt. Once these are learnt outcomes obviously will be much better.

I'm sure players who slacken off and try to hide during these games will be shown the door at seasons end.


I am quietly confident that we will turn this season around. Maybe not today but the lessons learnt will be worth it.

(Gus was speaking on 100% footy)

Still confident with Gus gone?

 

[Aliceinwonderland]

Still confident with Gus gone?

Yeah I am.

Gus always said his object was to do himself out of a job. He's achieved much at Penrith. I'm sad to see him go. I believe there is potential for the team and coach to now take the reins and move forward.

Gus was not needed to hang around on the fringes. That would not have been particuarly healthy.

 

[forby]

Well said.