Is this right?

[rugby13france-livrade+sav]

ParraEelsNRL,
4 possibilies: you are very funny or you don't know the French RL or you don't read French newspapers or you don't go to French games.

1) how many registered players and managers in the federation ?
2) how many clubs in the federation ?
3) how many clubs in the division Elite ?
4) how many clubs in division N.1 ?
5) how many clubs in the regional divisions ?

http://www.infostreize.com/

Per game:
. the Elite club (1 of the most famous) I support, this season the average attendance is 800,
. the N.1 club my father support, this season the average attendance is 300,
. the average attendance for the games I watch: 1 of N.1 = 90, the other in a regional league = 12


Now the Dragons: Kindly deduct an average of 2,000 English fans by game and you will be surprised (Perpignan with it suburb it is 190,000 unhabitants).



ParraEelsNRL you don't know me,
. sure I am a liar,
. sure I am pleased to provide false information.

 

[taipan]

The most interesting it is the rumour, the rumours, it is false information becoming the truth and of which the broadcasting is made by the named: "radio carpet or radio rumours".



The various governments of France:

. The provisoire (interim) government : C. De Gaulle with all political parties (7 or 8) = June 1944 to Jan. 1947,

. Presidents V. Auriol, R. Coty = Jan. 1947 to Jun. 1958 = the non communist left with the center or the center and, sometimes the left center + center with some gaullists,

. Presidents C. De Gaulle, G. Pompidou, V. Giscard d’Estaing = June 1958 to May 1981 = the gaullists or the right + the gaullists,

. President F. Mitterrand = May 1981 to May 1995 = the socialists or the right or the socialists,
note: president Mitterrand (a socialist) never went to an RL championship final but he is the 1st president who went to an RU championship final (june 1981) and after he made this every year.

. President J. Chirac = May 1995 to May 2007 = the right or the socialists or the right.
note: every year president Chirac makes as president Mitterrand made during 14 years.



The French politicians left or right are not interested by RL, RL it is no more than 30,000 people, no more than 20,000 voters.

I can understand your points.However it doesn't make the post war govts right in preventing a sport which originally had the name rugby in its title,from having that name until 1989.They were wrong ,and the fact that the name was reinstated says so.
I dont care whether its Socialist govts or whatever.They are democratically elected governments,and mmust act accordingly.These govts are not only to represent the majority but also the minority,whether its 20,000 or 10,000.

 

[taipan]

I understand very well:
. the leaders of the FRL, of its clubs, its players, its fans were stupid men, were very stupid men, quite normal as they are frogs.

. if Australia had been occupied by Japan, had been governed by a fascist government and, RL had been forbidden in Australia, consequently the Australian's RL leaders, its players, its fans would have taken weapons, would have prefer to be killed for their RL, would have taken weapons to forbid the ban of their RL, to forbid the transfer of the RL’s possessions to the national Australian sports committee; rather the death than rather to see their speechless RL, their RL forbidden.



Several ten’s of years after the events, without the comments and the writings of the FRL’s managers of this time, it is very easy to say, to write that FRL’s managers have fallen short of their’s duty.


I am sure that some very old former FRL’s managers know a part of the truth but even if they refuse to go the Hight Court, why they refuse to broadcast the things they know ?

why to do simple when you can do complicated ?, why to make simple when you can make complicated ?

Unfortunately the FRL's former managers of the period 1940-1945 also died; perhaps their families hold some important documents but they refuse to divulge them.

I must be stupid,because I am a frog (descent);-) .I did not suggest the RL clubs/members were stupid.I could not imagine the pressure they were under with the Occupation govt.I understand the translation of English may suggest that.Life is more important than sport.
Nor am I suggesting that the FRL members(few now in number) who would be in their 70s or 80s ,would be able to prove many things because of 1) the time that has gone by 2) the lack of documentation.
I think you misunderstand me,I am putting the blame on the vichy govt with the behind the scenes approval of the FRU.I am not blaming rugby league officials,players or supporters in france during the occupation years.

This doesn't mean that the game in France should not be assisted in growing again at grassroots and senior level,and if possible getting some reimbursement from the French govt.I have always been taught ,that as life has many failures,you don't give up as long as you have you can breathe.

 

[rugby13france-livrade+sav]

Taipan,
it is with the actions of President Jacques Soppelsa, "who was also a professor of Paris 1 University and President of Paris 1 La Sorbonne-Panthéon University" (perhaps know him), that the FRL came back into its name (Rugby à XIII).
President Jacques Soppelsa was also a friend of President Mitterrand (President Mitterrand gave him great functions at the Hight School: Hautes Etudes de la Défense Nationale), what has done President Mitterrand (a socialist) for FRL ?, he did nothing.

At the Assemblée Nationale,
. several MP have constituted a group MP' RU fans (they are very active to do meetings with FFRU, sponsors, .....)
. a small number of MP have constituted a group MP' RL fans (to do meetings they sleep: on my knowledge 1 per year or 1 per 2 years)

the French politicians aren't interested by FRL: only 20,000 voters in France, 20,000 voters on 40,000,000 voters is less than a minority.

 

[screeny]

ParraEelsNRL,
4 possibilies: you are very funny or you don't know the French RL or you don't read French newspapers or you don't go to French games.

1) how many registered players and managers in the federation ?
2) how many clubs in the federation ?
3) how many clubs in the division Elite ?
4) how many clubs in division N.1 ?
5) how many clubs in the regional divisions ?

http://www.infostreize.com/

Per game:
. the Elite club (1 of the most famous) I support, this season the average attendance is 800,
. the N.1 club my father support, this season the average attendance is 300,
. the average attendance for the games I watch: 1 of N.1 = 90, the other in a regional league = 12


Now the Dragons: Kindly deduct an average of 2,000 English fans by game and you will be surprised (Perpignan with it suburb it is 190,000 unhabitants).



ParraEelsNRL you don't know me,
. sure I am a liar,
. sure I am pleased to provide false information.

All well and good, but you're talking about and listing hard core, signed up members only support.

You forget to take into account the much larger sector that can be labelled 'latent' support, those fans who will drift to a popular, more vibrant RL if it can pick itself out of the village, small fry setting it seems to be in at the moment.

I believe a part of Larret's strategy is to take RL back into the big conurbations, so evidently the federation understands that significant latent support is out there, waiting to be tapped into.

 

[rugby13france-livrade+sav]

screeny,
you are very funny and
if my mother was a male she should be my father !.


The strategy is a thing !, the reality is an other thing !!!!!!!!!, the hopes are an other thing !!!!!!!!!!!!!

How many unhabitants in Toulouse and its suburb ? => 700,000 !!!
how many people last week in Toulouse stade des Minimes for the championship semi-final Toulouse Olympique v Villeneuve.13 ? => 2,100

You are on your little cloud, come back on earth (an other example: GAISF)
I note for you the content of all links i give is false and and i am happy providing false information, dis-information, consequently you don't read, you don't remember the content.
What are the French books (or their English translation) you have read for History of the federation, clubs ? , at the present time what are the French newspapers you read for game reports and attendance ?


Now Australia:
Tasmania, Northern Territory, Western Australia or Perth, South Australia or Adelaïde: how many RL clubs ? registered RL players & managers ? what attendance at the games ?

 

[screeny]

screeny,
you are very funny and
if my mother was a male she should be my father !.


The strategy is a thing, the reality is an other !!!!!!!!!

How many unhabitants in Toulouse and its suburb ? => 700,000 !!!
how many people last week in Toulouse stade des Minimes for the championship semi-final Toulouse Olympique v Villeneuve.13 ? => 2,100


Now Australia:
Tasmania, Northern Territory, Western Australia or Perth, South Australia or Adelaïde: how many RL clubs ? registered RL players & managers ? what attendance at the games ?

So there's no such thing as latent support then? The numbers involved in French RL now are the numbers involved in French RL for ever?

So only signed up members of clubs are potential supporters and all others (the vast majority) should be ignored? The FFRXIII shouldn't even bother attempting to look at how support can be increased, is that what you're saying?

You have all the answers, mon gar...

 

[rugby13france-livrade+sav]

screeny,
you are very funny and
if my mother was a male she should be my father !.


The strategy is a thing !, the reality is an other thing !!!!!!!!!, the hopes are an other thing !!!!!!!!!!!!!

How many unhabitants in Toulouse and its suburb ? => 700,000 !!!
how many people last week in Toulouse stade des Minimes for the championship semi-final Toulouse Olympique v Villeneuve.13 ? => 2,100

You are on your little cloud, come back on earth (an other example: GAISF)
I note for you the content of all links i give is false and and i am happy providing false information, dis-information, consequently you don't read, you don't remember the content.
What are the French books (or their English translation) you have read for History of the federation, clubs ? , at the present time what are the French newspapers you read for game reports and attendance ?


Now Australia:
Tasmania, Northern Territory, Western Australia or Perth, South Australia or Adelaïde: how many RL clubs ? registered RL players & managers ? what attendance at the games ?

I repeat: screeny you are very funny and fantastic !
To know very well the French, Where do you live France or on a little cloud or Australia ?

What is your answer for Tas, NT, WA, SA ? books ? newspapers ?

 

[ParraEelsNRL]

All well and good, but you're talking about and listing hard core, signed up members only support.

You forget to take into account the much larger sector that can be labelled 'latent' support, those fans who will drift to a popular, more vibrant RL if it can pick itself out of the village, small fry setting it seems to be in at the moment.

I believe a part of Larret's strategy is to take RL back into the big conurbations, so evidently the federation understands that significant latent support is out there, waiting to be tapped into.

Well said.

rugby13france-livrade+sav, I never called you a liar, snap out of it.

 

[rugby13france-livrade+sav]

Taipan,
I don't consider you as stupid because you perhaps imagine as the life was in France, as difficult the life was during the Occupation and vichy, because like me you aren't young.

The thing I don't admit is
. that for numerous French or in other countries only 1 thing arrived: the vichy decree (mid Dec. 1941),

. that these people refuse to admit and to write that our sport lost its name only on end of Apr. 1949 (for them Official Documents of the French Republic are false !)
. that these people refuse to admit and to write that numerous RL clubs played (Oct. 1940 to May 1944) onion (perhaps a way to protect a part or the majority of their goods and assets)

for these people,
. Is it ignominious to remind these 2 points of which they are aware ?
. It is perpahs better to suggest that managers from 1940 to 1948, in particular from 1940 to 1945 were idiotic !!!!!

. that these people write the assets of the FRL were in 1940 several ten's of millions French Francs; they write without documents to confirm, excepted if they were RL managers in 1940 (they are now very old around 100 to 105 years old)


2 information you perhaps don't know:
. In Paris the Head Office of the LFR.13 was but, it was in Bordeaux -since 1935- where all the administration of the Amateur clubs (130 to no more 142 in june 1940) was,

. at the present, since several years and in spite the fact she is a very small federation (no more than 7,000 registered players) the FFR.13 and the French RL hold the status of Hight Level Sport (this status means many helps from the Republic, it is perhaps for which the FFR.13 doesn't wish to go to the Hight Court).
In spite of the fact that 3 criterias defined by the Republic aren't satisfied: - rlif not member of the GAISF or ARISF, - RL not played in at least 60 countries, - RL world championship not with at least 25 countries, the French RL hold the status of Hight Level Sport (some other little federations are jealous).

http://www.jeunesse-sports.gouv.fr/sports_1/sport-haut-niveau-sport-professionnel_69/soutien-au-sport-haut-niveau_373/sport-haut-niveau-est-quoi_588.html


Is it so difficult to admit the truth: till apr. 1949 and they played onion ???
.

 

[Paley]

Who cares what happened under Vichy? The great French league teams of the early fifties seemed to do pretty well, didn't they? It requires a suspension of the normal processes of human history to accept that league was strong in the early fifties, and the demise of the game was due to actions taken 10 years earlier.

It was De Gaulle who preferred rugby, as a unifying force for a fractured nation, who dealt the death-blow to league.

Obviously unionites don't care what happened during Vichy as it was just another in a long line of disgraceful acts union was involved in.

After the war rugby was once again allowed to be played although it had to start from scratch as its pre war assets were held by union clubs who lacked the decency and honour to hand them back. In order for rugby to get government recognition it had to join the french sports association - but union protested saying there is only one rugby and that is union. However, by getting the votes of some minor sports rugby was allowed to join the association but once again union protested and rugby had to change its name to Jeu a Treize - because it changed its name it was unable to sue for reparations because under french law the governing body waqs now different from the one pre war (because of the name change) - so well done union, it used the war to have rugby banned and then after the war made sure rugby couldn't claim back its lost assets.

Rugby in France after the war did prosper for a while but the ban on Pe teachers specialising in rugby at college meant the game was just about non existant in schools and gradually the flow of players coming through died to a trickle. Any good players were snapped up by union - union in France having been openly professional for years.

Vichy seems to be one of those things which unionites struggle to accept - the facts are well known but the unionites would prefer to make up their own - any number of faux historys have been written on PlanetRugby concerning Vichy and what happened to rugby during that period.

Next year the union world cup is in France and I am sure we will get the usual nonsense about what a fine sport it is and how the people invloved are all good eggs - fortunately some of us know differently, we know just what levels some in union will stoop to to suppress a rival sport - we know the rank hypocrisy union shrouded itself in for 100 years and the lies and rewriting of history it employs.

 

[rugby13france-livrade+sav]

Paley,
word after word, sentence after sentence, paragraph after paragraph and without photos of official documents, without amounts for the federation’s lost, without amounts for each clubs’ lost, you write wind, you do :blahb: :blahb: :blahb:. Moreover with the omissions of the FRL’s events for the period Oct. 1940 to Dec. 1941, Dec. 1941 to May 1944, Sept. 1944 to Apr. 1949,
. you take a great pleasure to write wind, to do disinformation,
. you take a great pleasure to suggest that the federation’s managers, the clubs’ managers were men stupid, idiotic, mad, etc. etc. , were vichy’s fans (reasons for which they did nothing to preserve the FRL’s properties).

Paley,
Thanks,
Many thanks,
A lot of thanks.

 

[Paley]

Paley,
word after word, sentence after sentence, paragraph after paragraph and without photos of official documents, without amounts for the federation’s lost, without amounts for each clubs’ lost, you write wind, you do :blahb: :blahb: :blahb:. Moreover with the omissions of the FRL’s events for the period Oct. 1940 to Dec. 1941, Dec. 1941 to May 1944, Sept. 1944 to Apr. 1949,
. you take a great pleasure to write wind, to do disinformation,
. you take a great pleasure to suggest that the federation’s managers, the clubs’ managers were men stupid, idiotic, mad, etc. etc. , were vichy’s fans (reasons for which they did nothing to preserve the FRL’s properties).

Paley,
Thanks,
Many thanks,
A lot of thanks.

Thanks for that - it was gibberish, but thanks anyway.

 

[Thomas]

Obviously a frenchman's thoughts on French Rugby League don't compare to your knowledge of the game over there do they Paley.

 

[Thomas]

Oh and here's an article on the subject that I found. Very interesting.

http://www2.umist.ac.uk/sport/SPORTS%20HISTORY/BSSH/The%20Sports%20Historian/TSH%2016/dine.html

Entitled: Money, Identity and Conflict: Rugby League in France

 

[Paley]

Obviously a frenchman's thoughts on French Rugby League don't compare to your knowledge of the game over there do they Paley.

It's hard to say, I haven't a clue what he is on about.

 

[rugby13france-livrade+sav]

Thomas,
I know the article you refer but,

. among you who know the content (in French language) of the rare books, searches written by French RL managers or coaches or fans ?
. among you who know French RL managers or coaches or fans of more than 80 years old ?



To do short:

- is the content of the books, searches written by the above French RL men (in French) false ?

- are the souvenirs of the very very old French RL managers or coaches or fans false ?

- are the 1946 and 1949 decrees of the Republic false ?

- are Toulouse Olympique 13, Villeneuve 13, etc. etc. ....... being onion club from 1940 to 1944 false ?
note: did they play onion with funds, equipments gave to us, travels to play away paid to us, ...... by vichy or by onions or falling from the sky ?

- is the federation's information Toulouse Olympique 13 was obliged to be an onion club false ?




- is the truth only in English language books ?



- is the truth only given by English (example: Mike Rylance) or by Australian ? or
are their searches a participation, a contribution to the search of the truth ?
.

 

[Paley]

You can ask Robert Fassolette.

 

[taipan]

screeny,
you are very funny and
if my mother was a male she should be my father !.


The strategy is a thing !, the reality is an other thing !!!!!!!!!, the hopes are an other thing !!!!!!!!!!!!!

How many unhabitants in Toulouse and its suburb ? => 700,000 !!!
how many people last week in Toulouse stade des Minimes for the championship semi-final Toulouse Olympique v Villeneuve.13 ? => 2,100

You are on your little cloud, come back on earth (an other example: GAISF)
I note for you the content of all links i give is false and and i am happy providing false information, dis-information, consequently you don't read, you don't remember the content.
What are the French books (or their English translation) you have read for History of the federation, clubs ? , at the present time what are the French newspapers you read for game reports and attendance ?


Now Australia:
Tasmania, Northern Territory, Western Australia or Perth, South Australia or Adelaïde: how many RL clubs ? registered RL players & managers ? what attendance at the games ?

Tasmania.nil
Northern Territory,- 6 clubs Darwin 4 clubs Alice Springs
Sth Australia- 5 clubs
Western Australia
-7 clubs
Some with very small attendances.However it doesnt stop the game being developed in these states,with grant assistance from the federal and state govts.
In South Australia 2 years ago they had 200 schoolchildren involved in school comps,today estimate 800.
If development work can continue here in AFL states with little money,it should also be able to do so in France.

 

[taipan]

Oh and here's an article on the subject that I found. Very interesting.

http://www2.umist.ac.uk/sport/SPORTS%20HISTORY/BSSH/The%20Sports%20Historian/TSH%2016/dine.html

Entitled: Money, Identity and Conflict: Rugby League in France

read Mike Rylance's"The Forbidden Game" a well researched historical story of the happenings prior ,during and after the War.A real eye opener.