Is this right?

[taipan]

Thomas,
I know the article you refer but,

. among you who know the content (in French language) of the rare books, searches written by French RL managers or coaches or fans ?
. among you who know French RL managers or coaches or fans of more than 80 years old ?



To do short:

- is the content of the books, searches written by the above French RL men (in French) false ?

- are the souvenirs of the very very old French RL managers or coaches or fans false ?

- are the 1946 and 1949 decrees of the Republic false ?

- are Toulouse Olympique 13, Villeneuve 13, etc. etc. ....... being onion club from 1940 to 1944 false ?
note: did they play onion with funds, equipments gave to us, travels to play away paid to us, ...... by vichy or by onions or falling from the sky ?

- is the federation's information Toulouse Olympique 13 was obliged to be an onion club false ?




- is the truth only in English language books ?



- is the truth only given by English (example: Mike Rylance) or by Australian ? or
are their searches a participation, a contribution to the search of the truth ?
.

In Australia when amateur union clubs switched over to rugby league during the early 1900s the assets fields etc went with them,and they earned money via gate receipts playing rugby league not rugby union.When the Presbyterian Church split in Oz,some of its assets went with the new group.

There are of course 2 sides to every story,however undisputable facts were the headquarters of the rugby league was burnt down,the code lost its name
and rights(I dont care which govt was responsible it happened),rugby league monies disappeared from the bank account,and assets whether rightfully unions or wrongfully rugby leagues' ended up in unions control.
It would appear you are suggesting that rugby league owned nothing,had no money in the bank(when the game was booming at the time of the occupation).Assets also include players rugby league developed.

eg in 1938/9 season in France had seen rugby league continue to progress,with record receipts for an international match and final.For anyone to say there was no financial assets at the time of seizure of the rugby league is kidding themselves.The moneys earned was a result of playing rugby league not rugby union

The newly renamed in 1993 Federation Francaise de Jeu a X111 could not now claim any reparation for the funds and property taken by Vichy because it(THE NEW NAME)had not existed at that time (Occupation).

Now I may be a simple Australian,but I refute that the assets seized were all unions being returned.Apparently the Buffett enquiry supports this.

 

[taipan]

Taipan,
I don't consider you as stupid because you perhaps imagine as the life was in France, as difficult the life was during the Occupation and vichy, because like me you aren't young.

The thing I don't admit is
. that for numerous French or in other countries only 1 thing arrived: the vichy decree (mid Dec. 1941),

. that these people refuse to admit and to write that our sport lost its name only on end of Apr. 1949 (for them Official Documents of the French Republic are false !)
. that these people refuse to admit and to write that numerous RL clubs played (Oct. 1940 to May 1944) onion (perhaps a way to protect a part or the majority of their goods and assets)

for these people,
. Is it ignominious to remind these 2 points of which they are aware ?
. It is perpahs better to suggest that managers from 1940 to 1948, in particular from 1940 to 1945 were idiotic !!!!!

. that these people write the assets of the FRL were in 1940 several ten's of millions French Francs; they write without documents to confirm, excepted if they were RL managers in 1940 (they are now very old around 100 to 105 years old)


2 information you perhaps don't know:
. In Paris the Head Office of the LFR.13 was but, it was in Bordeaux -since 1935- where all the administration of the Amateur clubs (130 to no more 142 in june 1940) was,

. at the present, since several years and in spite the fact she is a very small federation (no more than 7,000 registered players) the FFR.13 and the French RL hold the status of Hight Level Sport (this status means many helps from the Republic, it is perhaps for which the FFR.13 doesn't wish to go to the Hight Court).
In spite of the fact that 3 criterias defined by the Republic aren't satisfied: - rlif not member of the GAISF or ARISF, - RL not played in at least 60 countries, - RL world championship not with at least 25 countries, the French RL hold the status of Hight Level Sport (some other little federations are jealous).

http://www.jeunesse-sports.gouv.fr/sports_1/sport-haut-niveau-sport-professionnel_69/soutien-au-sport-haut-niveau_373/sport-haut-niveau-est-quoi_588.html


Is it so difficult to admit the truth: till apr. 1949 and they played onion ???
.

My friend.The translation on both sides is entre nous is the problem.
I dont think anyone is suggesting that during the occupation years,that clubs(rugby league) did not have to play union or they were in trouble.To protect their assets.If they could not play rugby league,the clubs of course had to play union,no alternative it is natural.
Nor does anyone suggest that the GAISF standards do not need to be met ,in order to gain govt funding.The ARL tried earlier this year without success.That has nothing to do with seizure of assets,small ,or large by a govt.

All we are saying acts were done against rugby league,with the tacit approval and collusion of rugby union.There has never been a formal apology for starters let alone reparations, by the govt(and again i dont care whether it covers 10,000 or 30,000 people).So if a crime happens and only a few people are affected ,its a waste of time.

Tas Baiteri(now involved in the ARL/RLIF) who spent some time playing and coaching in France,knows full well,the tricks of the union clubs at times,with double bookings and pressure on local councils,to the detriment of rugby league clubs.So he knows nothing ?

we are saying 1941 seizure of assets.
we are saying 1946 handover of assets taken by Vichy to rugby union.
we are saying game could not be called its title again(whether 1949 it is still nearly 50 years),until 1993 given a different name and therby unable to press compensation claims.

 

[rugby13france-livrade+sav]

1) between 15 oct. 1940 ( date where Managers of the federation recommend to the clubs to play onion ) and the vichy decree (19 dec. 1941) the time elapsed is 1 year and 2 months !!!
managers of the federation and clubs were consequently iditioc.

2) the photo of the 3 decrees of the French Republic in this topic are consequently false
from september 1944 to end of april 1949 the time elapsed is 4 years and 7 months !!!
managers of the federation and clubs were consequently iditioc.

3) regarding the GAISF, i found this: an official letter,
the writer, a member of the board of the GAISF, is also an other liar !!!!
http://www.totalrl.com/fansforum/index.php?showtopic=23598


4) in France the liars are numerous and consequently me too !!!

Ok, information well received (you have perhaps not noticed that i have never written: vichy seized nothing, it is not a problem: i am a liar !!!).

.

 

[Green Machine]

Oh and here's an article on the subject that I found. Very interesting.

http://www2.umist.ac.uk/sport/SPORTS%20HISTORY/BSSH/The%20Sports%20Historian/TSH%2016/dine.html

Entitled: Money, Identity and Conflict: Rugby League in France

The reasons why are basically twofold: firstly because Rugby League could not hope to gain support in working-class areas where soccer was already entrenched; and secondly because its `cloth cap' image and professionalism meant that it could not compete effectively with Rugby Union for middle-class allegiance. So it was destined, virtually from the outset, to be a regionally limited, minority sport.37

I found the above piece very peculiar. This bloke is not serious is he Thomas? BARLA and all party Rugby League Committee fought for free gangway up until 1995, when they achieved their goal. Here is some stats from the BARLA website about Rugby League growth in the UK:

http://www.barla.org.uk/about/index.asp

History of BARLA
The Association was formed in Huddersfield in 1973, with a bank balance of just £25, as a breakaway from the Rugby Football League (RFL) and has become one of the sporting success stories of modern times. At that time the RFL was controlled by thirty professional clubs with the amateurs having no vote or say in their own destiny. The sport was in serious decline. There were fewer than 150 amateur teams with youth rugby teams down to as little as thirty sides. The ‘breakaway' was acrimonious and was strongly contested by the professional game. However thanks to the rugby league senior statesman, the late Tom Mitchell of Workington, who was a visionary and a colossus in the professional ranks and later the Patron of BARLA, a vote 29-1 against recognising BARLA was turned round within twelve months to an unanimous vote of approval for the newly born ‘BARLA baby'.
Twenty-six years later there are more than 1400 teams and 900 youth and junior teams, a truly remarkable record. On an average weekend in the season, close on 23,000 players will be in action. Few other sports or indeed businesses can boast such an impressive growth record.

 

[Thomas]

I found the above piece very peculiar. This bloke is not serious is he Thomas? BARLA and all party Rugby League Committee fought for free gangway up until 1995, when they achieved their goal. Here is some stats from the BARLA website about Rugby League growth in the UK:

http://www.barla.org.uk/about/index.asp

He's talking about the game in France, mate. After the War.

Whether he is right or wrong...I don't know. Perhaps our French friend could elaborate.

 

[Green Machine]

He's talking about the game in France, mate. After the War.

Whether he is right or wrong...I don't know. Perhaps our French friend could elaborate.

Hang on Thomas, no need to do your Pearl Fish impersonation and go hide up someone else’s arse. This Union apologists sh*tsheet you posted, as what you called interesting reading, concluded his thoughts on French Rugby League’s lack of growth with some incorrect facts on the growth of the game in the UK.

What about this bullsh*t at the start of the article?

A dramatic act of symbolic reconstruction occurred in June 1995, when Bradford Northern, the rugby league club long synonymous with sport in that city, announced its decision to change its name to `Bradford Bulls'.1 This move is of some significance for our understanding of the challenges of globalization faced by traditional patterns of communal identification as we approach the millenium, and was most obviously prompted by the international marketing success of the Chicago Bulls basketball team. Howevever, the decision to sacrifice a century of Yorkshire tradition on the altar of the mighty dollar is by no means necessarily tragic, and may even be regarded as timely. After all, the dropping of the `Northern' tag - exactly one hundred years after the historic meeting in Huddersfield which gave birth to the breakaway Northern Rugby Union - can in no sense be portrayed as a betrayal of Corinthian sporting values. Neverthless, the sports historian may properly be allowed to regret the passing of what is a particularly tangible sign of modern sport's existence as a privileged site for the study of the past in the present

What is Corinthian sporting values Thomas?

 

[taipan]

1) between 15 oct. 1940 ( date where Managers of the federation recommend to the clubs to play onion ) and the vichy decree (19 dec. 1941) the time elapsed is 1 year and 2 months !!!
managers of the federation and clubs were consequently iditioc.

2) the photo of the 3 decrees of the French Republic in this topic are consequently false
from september 1944 to end of april 1949 the time elapsed is 4 years and 7 months !!!
managers of the federation and clubs were consequently iditioc.

3) regarding the GAISF, i found this: an official letter,
the writer, a member of the board of the GAISF, is also an other liar !!!!
http://www.totalrl.com/fansforum/index.php?showtopic=23598


4) in France the liars are numerous and consequently me too !!!

Ok, information well received (you have perhaps not noticed that i have never written: vichy seized nothing, it is not a problem: i am a liar !!!).

.

Pardon monsieur translation problems.Liar NON
Agree your points.I am not suggesting anyone is a liar.The rugby league clubs had to play union during the war years agree. The rugby league officials were not idiots.They were passionate about rugby league.

All I am saying rugby league was banned by Vichy,lost its assets,its offices burnt down,did not regain the right to use the name rugby until 1993.
That is all,nothing more.The other dates have smaller impact.

Therefore I am a liar.

 

[Thomas]

Hang on Thomas, no need to do your Pearl Fish impersonation and go hide up someone else’s arse. This Union apologists sh*tsheet you posted, as what you called interesting reading, concluded his thoughts on French Rugby League’s lack of growth with some incorrect facts on the growth of the game in the UK.

What about this bullsh*t at the start of the article?



What is Corinthian sporting values Thomas?

Hurrah!

I know what you are saying, mate, and personally I think a lot (most) of that article is rubbish. I was just posting it as a point of interest.

Read into it what you want....

And yes, I know what Corinthian values in sport are. No compensation for injury etc etc

 

[Green Machine]

Hurrah!

I know what you are saying, mate, and personally I think a lot (most) of that article is rubbish. I was just posting it as a point of interest.

Read into it what you want....

And yes, I know what Corinthian values in sport are. No compensation for injury etc etc

I agree with you Thomas, the article was trash. The introduction to discredit Bradford Bulls was rubbish and the summary to discredit the image of English Rugby League, through it’s development in the UK was a load of crap as well. The author seemed to breeze over the French Rugby Union’s sporting contacts in the 1930’s. Come to think of it, I don’t think he even mentioned who they actually played against. One of the cornerstones of the Northern Union breaking away from the Southern Unions in 1895 was Broken Time payments for injured players. The Bradford club adopted “Northern” in their name in 1908, after the defection of others in Bradford going to other sports. The name “Northern Rugby” was dropped in the 1920’s for the current name, Rugby League.

 

[Thomas]

Yeah, very true.

What I am getting at is that it is hard for us english speaking people to really get into this issue without looking at French reports etc.

I don't know about you, but my French is limited to a few crass phrases and "Mr can I buy a loaf of bread".

I know Mike Rylance's book is a great source.....but I'd love to hear a few French RL fans views on the situation....err...without the mass translations.

There is no doubt that RU had a hand in supressing RL in France, with the help of the Vichy Government, but surely some of the blame (and how much) should go to the ineptness of FRL officials after the war?

 

[Sam_the_man]

Woods is the load that his mother should have swolled.

League has no millitary history?

lol maybe because league teams were forced to play union by the officers (yep the riches guys with the fancy titles) and if you want to try something new...actually researching something properly and then reporting it TRUTHFULLY you'll know that very very few times were the league teams that were forced to play union actually lost to union playing teams.
Want another union disgrace to research Woods you loser, look into the roll of union in the death of league in South Africa inthe 60's. League was drawing consistent crowds well into the thosands....until union stepped in. Go investigate that and then let us know what you think. And remember, try and be as truthfull as a yawnion sycophant can be.

 

[rugby13france-livrade+sav]

Sam_the_man,
French RU is not responsible of all French RL problems

. Why in the years 1960 French RL managers refused TV ???
television will reduce the attendance in the stadiums and the receipts for the games !!! (division by 2 !!)

. Why in the years 1950 to 1975 French RL managers prefered to purchase RU players (great name in RU or good RU players) than to train under 10 years old, U13, U15, U17, U19, U21 players ???
more expensive to train under 10 years old, U13, U15, U17, U19, U21 players !!!, more of financial worries !!!!! and more of worries with childreen and kids !!!!


When you are a fanatic or an hooligan, it is very easy to say, to write that RU is responsible for all the problems ; same thing when you want to kill you dog: you go to whe veterinary surgeon and you say him my dog hold the rage, Kill it !!!

.

 

[Sam_the_man]

rugby13france-livrade+sav my friend it is far better to remain quiet and let everyone think you are an idiot than to open your mouth and prove them all right.

For all the dancing around you are doing you still can't face the fact that union has strong nazi and appartite links. It's that simple.
What a proud sport you defend. Name me one other sport in the world that has as much blood on it's hands as rugby union.

 

[rugby13france-livrade+sav]

Sam_the_man,
an other Arrogant and Fanatic who know nothing on French RL but he opens his affrous mouth to broadcast his slaver of toad !!

I am sure if i was in front of him, he kill me.


"" What a proud sport you defend ? ""
unfortunately for you, you aren't my boss !!


"" Name me one other sport in the world that has as much blood on it's hands as rugby union ""
as you are so well inform, as you know so well rugby in France give us
the name
. of French's RL federation managers,
. of French's RL club managers and name of their respective club,
. of French's RL club players and name of their respective club
killed by Vichy or nazis on the fact: because they were only Leaguers.

.

 

[Sam_the_man]

I asked first you fascist, what sport has as much blood on it's hands as union. What sport has such strong links to Nazism and appartite?

When you have answered my questions i'll answer yours concerning rugby league managers and clubs!

 

[rugby13france-livrade+sav]

Sam_the_man,
as you are so well inform,
as union has so much blood on it's hands,


If you want to prove your affirmation, go till the end (jusqu'au bout) of your affirmation, be credible !!!

Give us the names and christian names of French invidual Leaguers killed, murdered by union !!, by vichy !!, by nazi !!
by union !!!!!

 

[screeny]

Sam_the_man,
as you are so well inform,
as union has so much blood on it's hands,


If you want to prove your affirmation, go till the end (jusqu'au bout) of your affirmation, be credible !!!

Give us the names and christian names of French invidual Leaguers killed, murdered by union !!, by vichy !!, by nazi !!
by union !!!!!

I believe that the introduction to M. Rylance's The Forbidden Game begins with a passage about RL players who were executed by the fascist authorities.

So there are your individuals....if you contest it, speak to Rylance and accuse him of lying in his book.

 

[rugby13france-livrade+sav]

my dear screeny,
give me the page !!

 

[screeny]

my dear screeny,
give me the page !!

The introduction, page one.......

 

[rugby13france-livrade+sav]

My dear screeny,

you haven't well read the page !! or you are unable to read English !!!

May be you haven't also read the 14 first lines of the page 173 of the book !!! or you don't understand the contents of these lines !!!!!! (too difficult for you and not in English !!)

You are not funny, you are horrible about respect of the memory of these men (François Récaborde, Charles Mathon, Gilbert Brutus), of their political fight for the Freedom !!!


An other point which proves you know nothing !!!
An other point which proves you arrange, you transform the facts at your sauce !!!
(you have do this for the GAISF and for several other subjects)
.