Is this right?

[screeny]

My dear screeny,

you haven't well read the page !! or you are unable to read English !!!

May be you haven't also read the 14 first lines of the page 173 of the book !!! or you don't understand the contents of these lines !!!!!! (too difficult for you and not in English !!)

You are not funny, you are horrible about respect of the memory of these men (François Récaborde, Charles Mathon, Gilbert Brutus), of their political fight for the Freedom !!!


An other point which proves you know nothing !!!
An other point which proves you arrange, you transform the facts at your sauce !!!
(you have do this for the GAISF and for several other subjects)
.

Admittedly I haven't read the book since 2000 and I don't have a copy to hand, which is why I started by saying 'I believe...'. I do remember that some resistance fighters were up for the firing squad though, or does my memory fail me?

I must say your taunting of me is excellent and highly amusing in a Monty Python stylee; I am enjoying it immensely so keep it up, mon gar, as I will keep on "transforming the facts at my sauce"!

 

[rugby13france-livrade+sav]

screeny,
on what date ?, on what place ?, for what reasons ? François Récaborde died ;
what was in job ?, what was his sporting job ?

.

 

[Sam_the_man]

You still haven't answered my questions rugby13france-livrade+sav.

One would think you know very well the answers and so are ignoring them!

 

[screeny]

screeny,
on what date ?, on what place ?, for what reasons ? François Récaborde died ;
what was in job ?, what was his sporting job ?

.

You've obviously got the book handy, so you tell me: what is the introduction about when the resistance fighters are up for the firing squad? Or if I'm mistaken, just tell me what the introduction of that book details.

I bet you wont.

 

[rugby13france-livrade+sav]

screeny, RL in English is not only this site, do you see the others ? you have RL Fans: virtual terrace forum, international forum ; World of RL: international forum ; TotalRL: express forum, world forum, on this last information about France (present and past) are numerous (i note that it is possible to see all since january)


François Récaborde:
born: 1903
died: 21.01.1951
place: coming back to home, on the road Oloron Pau, after the ru game Oloron (7) v Lourdes (13)
reason: car crash (he was driving his own car)
sporting job when the car crash arrived: coach of Oloron RU Club ; doing this he also was trying to reestablished RL in Pau
player of rugby: RU and RL
coach in rugby: RL and RU
job: cabinet-maker

 

[rugby13france-livrade+sav]

Where have you seen that all in RU where vichy's fans !!

It was a Political Choice not a Sport Choice !!!

I don't Know if you understand this !!!


Find for you from an other fan, at end of the page
http://www.totalrl.com/fansforum/index.php?showtopic=24315&st=15

 

[Sam_the_man]

Where have you seen that all in RU where vichy's fans !!

It was a Political Choice not a Sport Choice !!!

I don't Know if you understand this !!!




Find for you from an other fan, at end of the page
http://www.totalrl.com/fansforum/index.php?showtopic=24315&st=15

Ah ok i see where your coming from now, it was rugby league that collaborated with the Nazi's!!!!
How silly of us to have gotten that fact mixed up.
I also now understand that it was infact league that had union banned through it's collaborater government, Vichy. What a terrible thing for league to have done to union.

But isn't league lucky to have someone like rugby13france to defened it.

With friends like him who needs enemies!

 

[rugby13france-livrade+sav]

Le décret de vichy semble bien avoir son origine à Berlin, cette lettre a un dirigeant anti fasciste du rugby à 13 (le patron du rugby à 13 amateur) met aussi ce fait en évidence.

Sur cet autre forum de rugby à 13, j'ai lu aussi ceci écrit par une personne qui n'est pas française:
" Germans and Nazis didnt do the things in France committed by the Vichy Government."

 

[rugby13france-livrade+sav]

Comme je ne sais pas lire et écrire en anglais ou franglais, comme vous savez très bien lire et écrire le français, sur ce site international et anglais de rugby à 13 j’ai trouvé ceci qui est très intéressant mais non développé et que vous devez aussi connaître mais dont vous ne voulez pas parler.

1) le 15 octobre 1940 le rugby à 13 français, sous la pression des onions s’est suicidé : sa fédération a donné instruction à tous ses clubs de jouer à l’onion, d’adhérer à la fédération des onions.
le gouvernement de vichy n’a même pas eu besoin de faire une loi, un décret pour que le rugby à 13 s’autodétruise, pour que joueurs, clubs et dirigeants du rugby à 13 reviennent dans la grande maison des onions et jouent au jeu de l’onion ; les onions sont contents : tout c’est bien passé sans faire intervenir le gouvernement de vichy, sans utiliser la force.

2) le 15 septembre 1941 (11 mois après) un très grand dirigeant du rugby à 13 français amateur, un anti-onions qui n’accepte pas que le rugby à 13 ait disparu en France (avec le soutien moral du gouvernement de vichy) reçoit une lettre qui lui dit que le 3ième reich à Berlin n’a pas encore décidé s’il accepte ou interdit le rugby à 13 en France.

3) le 21 septembre 1941 (une semaine après la lettre ci-dessus et en photo dans le précédent post) apparaît en France un nouveau jeu inconnu des Français : un jeu allemand : le handball
« Le 21 septembre 1941, l'information paraît au Journal Officiel : la Fédération Française de Handball est juridiquement et officiellement reconnue. La suite de l'histoire apportera un démenti inattendu...
Pour l'instant, voilà le handball lancé. Le premier championnat de France masculin est organisé dès la saison 1941-1942, dans les deux zones, Nord et Sud, sous l'impulsion de Christian PICARD. La saison suivante, des compétitions sont mises en place pour les féminines. »
http://www.ff-handball.org/ffhb/html/la_ffhb/histoire_de_la_ffhb.php?h=m1

4) le 19 décembre 1941 ou le 29 décembre 1941 (3 mois après le 21 septembre 1941) le gouvernement de vichy par une loi, décret supprime le rugby à 13 et fait transférer ses biens au Conseil National des Sports et pas aux onions !
le gouvernement de vichy a t il oublié que le rugby à 13 n’existe plus en France depuis 14 mois ?, a t il oublié qu’il avait aussi écrit cela le 10 juin 1941 à ce très grand dirigeant du rugby à 13 amateur français (un anti-onions) ? ; Non car les treizistes contents ou pas contents sont chez les onions, car ils ne font plus d'histoires et ne posent plus de problèmes !.


Questions :
. pourquoi faire une loi si les treizistes ne posent plus de problèmes, ne font plus d'histoires ?
. quel est le lien entre Berlin et le décret de vichy ??
. quel est le lien entre cette nouvelle fédération en France pour ce nouveau jeu inconnu des Français et le décret de vichy ??
. quel est le lien entre le transfert des biens de la fédération de rugby à 13 au Conseil National des Sports et cette nouvelle fédération pour un jeu qui était inconnu en France avant fin1940 et 1941 ??



5) au 4ième trimestre 1944 cette nouvelle fédération et son jeu sont interdits en France selon une loi d’octobre 1943 du Général de Gaulle (Gouvernement provisoire de la France)
C’est seulement en juillet 1952, après 7,5 ans d’enquêtes administratives et certainement financières que la Fédération Française de Handball et son jeu ont le droit d’exister en France.
« Une surprise attend notre sport après la guerre. La décision du 21 septembre est tenue pour illégale : la fédération n'existe pas puisque créée sous l'autorité du gouvernement de Vichy... Au terme d'une longue enquête administrative (sur les fédérations messine et universitaire entre autres...) et d'une nouvelle déclaration à la Préfecture de Police (n° 52 833), le Journal Officiel du 11 juillet 1952 officialise enfin la "bonne" F.F.H.B.. »
http://www.ff-handball.org/ffhb/html/la_ffhb/histoire_de_la_ffhb.php?h=m1

Question
. Pourquoi, avant que cette nouvelle fédération ait le droit d’exister (1952), les enquêtes ont-elles duré si longtemps pour celle qui avait été crée par vichy : 7,5 ans d'enquêtes (1945 à juillet 1952) ??
. 7.5 ans d’enquêtes est ce parce que, comme le dit ce treiziste allemand, " Germans and Nazis didnt do the things in France committed by the Vichy Government." ??

 

[screeny]

So......in the introduction of the book it does in fact say that two RL people in France received pretty severe punishment: one shot (by Frenchmen) and one sent to a death camp.

I said in the beginning that 'I believe' that two leaguies were shot and you spent a few posts taunting me.

I don't get it......didn't you just prove me right? Either that or you're an evil genius whom I can make neither head nor tail of.

 

[Sam_the_man]

Most of us are not able to speck French...can you either translate it or give us a sumery of what that says please?

 

[rugby13france-livrade+sav]

griff is fluent in French (being 57 or 66 years old, he writes very well French),
why don't you require him to do the translations (letter + last message) ??

you can also require from screeny (for him French is every day an usual and current language)!

 

[griff]

griff is fluent in French (being 57 or 66 years old, he writes very well French),
why don't you require him to do the translations (letter + last message) ??

you can also require from screeny (for him French is every day an usual and current language)!

Que?

 

[screeny]

griff is fluent in French (being 57 or 66 years old, he writes very well French),
why don't you require him to do the translations (letter + last message) ??

you can also require from screeny (for him French is every day an usual and current language)!

Yes I do understand French.

But the reason I haven't posted the translation here is that I think you're taking the mick.

Why, I said to myself as I read your post, is this fellow talking about making a carrot and orange cake for his tea and then taking his goldfish out for a walk to the funfair?

Oh, and since you asked, it's half past seven.....

 

[griff]

I don't really understand what he is talking about, but he is clearly a Vichy apologist.

 

[rugby13france-livrade+sav]

As I cannot read and write in English or Frenglish, as you can read very well and write French, on this site international and English of Rugby with 13 I found this who very interesting but is not developed and whom you must also know but you do not want to speak.

1) on October 15, 1940
Rugby with 13 French, under the pressure of onions committed suicide: our federation gave instruction to all its clubs to play the onion.
To adhere to the federation of onions, the Vichy government did not even need to make a law, a decree so that Rugby with 13 kills himself, so that players, clubs and leaders of Rugby with 13 return in the large house of onions and play the game of the onion; onions are happy: all it passed well without utilizing the Vichy government, without using the force.

2) on September 15, 1941 (11 months afterwards)
the Chief Executive of Rugby with 13 French amateur, an anti-onions who does not accept that Rugby with 13 disappeared in France (with the moral support of the Vichy government) receives a letter which says to him that the 3ième reich in Berlin by the reichssportführer: H. von Tschammer und Osten did not decide yet if it accepts or prohibits Rugby with 13 in France.

3) on September 21, 1941 (one week after the letter above and of which the photo is in the precedent post and page)
appears in France a new unknown game to the French: a German game: the handball
"on September 21, 1941, information appears with the Official Journal: the French Federation of Handball juridically and is officially recognized. The continuation of the history will bring an unexpected denial... For the moment, here is the launched handball. The first male championship of France is organized as of the season 1941-1942, in the two zones, North and South, under the impulse of PICARDY Christian. The following season, of the competitions are installation for he female. "
http://www.ff-handball.org/ffhb/html/la_ffhb/histoire_de_la_ffhb.php?h=m1

4) on December 19, 1941 or on December 29, 1941 (3 months after September 21, 1941)
the Vichy government by a law, decree removes Rugby with 13 and makes transfer its goods to the National Council from the Sports and not with onions!
the Vichy government it has forgotten that Rugby with 13 does not exist more in France for 14 month?, did it forget that he had also written that on June 10, 1941 with this very large directing Rugby with 13 French amateur (anti-onions)? ; Not because the treizists content or not content are at onions, because they do not make any more stories and do not pose any more problems!.

Questions:
. why make a law if the treizists do not pose any more problems, do not make any more stories?
. which is the link between Berlin and the decree of Vichy??
. which is the link between this new federation in France for this new unknown game of the French and the decree of Vichy??
. which is the link between the transfer of the goods of the federation of Rugby to 13 to the National Council of the Sports and this new federation for a game which was unknown in France before fin1940 and 1941??




5) in the 4ième quarter 1944
this new federation and its game are prohibited in France according to a law of October 1943 of General de Gaulle (provisional Government of France)
It is only in July 1952, after 7,5 years of administrative investigations and certainly financial that the French Federation of Handball and its game have the right to exist in France
"a surprise awaits our sport after the war. The decision of September 21 is held for illegal: the federation does not exist since created under the authority of the Vichy government...
At the end of a long administrative investigation (on the federations Messina and academic inter alia...) and of a new declaration to the Prefecture of Police force (n° 52 833), the Official Journal of July 11, 1952 officializes finally "the good" F.F.H.B.."
http://www.ff-handball.org/ffhb/html/la_ffhb/histoire_de_la_ffhb.php?h=m1

Question
. Why, before this new federation has the right to exist (1952), the investigations have they took so a long time for that which had been creates by Vichy: 7,5 years of investigations (1945 at July 1952)??
. 7.5 years of investigations is this because, like says it this German treizist, "Germans and Nazis didn’t do the things in France committed by the Vichy Government." ??

 

[ParraEelsNRL]

Stuff the past, we're in the present now.

Nazis, no one here likes them. (OK, maybe G/N)

Germans, They play RL now = cool.

Look, I don't care for the talk of Nazis and stuff, but that doesn't mean we should forget the XV.

Look at what they are doing these days, could you imagine the outrage if Rugby League teams in Australia treated their union counterparts like some of the XV lot have been doing to the Catalans?

Or how the coach of a former London RL club reported how he and the team were treated by the same mob at usap a season or two ago?

People in union wonder why we keep a grudge, maybe it's because of the malicious way some in the union community continue to treat the game of RL and it's supporters?

rugby13france-livrade+sav:

Do you support the Catalans Dragons?

How long have you followed the X111 (if ever) and what team in the French comp?

 

[rugby13france-livrade+sav]

Stuff the past, we're in the present now.

Nazis, no one here likes them. (OK, maybe G/N)
Incredible of Incredible !!
Have you suffered of them in Australia ??????


Germans, They play RL now = cool.
Incredible of Incredible of Incredible of Incredible !!!!!
Because he is an RL fan and perhaps manager, Do you support his revisionism, negationism ????


Look, I don't care for the talk of Nazis and stuff, but that doesn't mean we should forget the XV.
From Australia, are you sure that FRU is the only beneficiary ?


- Look at what they are doing these days, could you imagine the outrage if Rugby League teams in Australia treated their union counterparts like some of the XV lot have been doing to the Catalans?
- Or how the coach of a former London RL club reported how he and the team were treated by the same mob at usap a season or two ago?
- People in union wonder why we keep a grudge, maybe it's because of the malicious way some in the union community continue to treat the game of RL and it's supporters?
What is it rugby ? it is a Commercial War !!, it is an Economic and Financial War !!!
like for the relationships between other sports, like for the relationships between rugby clubs, like for the relationships between 2 newspapers, like for the relationships between 2 chiefs in the same company, etc. etc.



rugby13france-livrade+sav:
Do you support the Catalans Dragons?
Who robbed 4 Villeneuve Players ?

How long have you followed the X111 (if ever) and what team in the French comp?
More than half a century !

What is the most important:
. the death of millions of people -in camps, killed, shot- ??????????
or
. the State Robbery -less than 10 Ff millions of 1941 (10 Ff millions of 1941 today represents 3 millions Euros)- ????? for which the French Republic makes annually the compensation with the statute for FRL "Sport de Haut Niveau" (Hight Level Sport)
On the website of the French Ministry of Youth and Sports, Have you read the conditions to obtain this statute ? do you think that FRL comply with our Laws and Regulations ? ( only 57 federations on more of 100 sport federations in France have this statute and + but 1 doesn't comply with Laws and Regulations to have it but she has it: FRL)
Who pays the monthly salary (12 months by year) since several years of the National Developpement Officer (National Technical Director -DTN-), of his 8 Regional Developpement Officers ( Regional Technical Advisers -CTR-), and many other things ???, it is the French Government with the income taxes and other taxes paid by the French people !!!
Note: with reference only to the annual salary of the DTN and of his 8 assistants -CTR- the charges represent for the French Government around 350,000 Euros by year !!


I am not an RU fan but
. who is responsible to haven't stopped hitler during the Civil War in Spain ?
. who is responsible of the War II in Europe ? and ALL its consequences for millions of people in Europe ?
On my knowledge and on the knowledge of European it is NOT FFR but the pacifism, the naivety of 3 governments: UK, France, USA (why relationships between vichy and USA, Canada till Nov. 1942 ? and, why relationships between vichy and USSR till June 1941 ?)

 

[taipan]

If Germany had not invaded France and installed the vichy govt,think rugby league there, would be much stronger than it is today.
It was doing OK prior to the occupation much to the annoyance of the FFR.

 

[Woods99]

If Germany had not invaded France and installed the vichy govt,think rugby league there, would be much stronger than it is today.
It was doing OK prior to the occupation much to the annoyance of the FFR.

And if wishes were horses, beggars would ride.

How inconvenient it is that we cannot change the past. Incidentally, Taipan, the Vichy regime managed to stay in power with very little on-going military support from the Germans, which seems to indicate that - as unpalatable as it might be to contemplate - the vast majority of the French people were remarkably complaisant about the existence of the regime.

And it was De Gaulle, after all, an enemy of the Vichy regime, who cemented rugby union's stranglehold -- long after the end of WW2.