Is Tim Paine most uninspiring captain Ever??

[ouryears]

I don't know what's more shameful; the sandpaper, or bowling Khawaja and Finch in consecutive tests. Aussies have absolutely nothing.

I Don’t consider sandpapergate as shameful, but the lack of skills and heart on show as India creep towards 1,000 runs this innings is!

 

[Crush]

I Don’t consider sandpapergate as shameful, but the lack of skills and heart on show as India creep towards 1,000 runs this innings is!

If Smith was captain today what would the total be you think?
You think he would have got more out of the bowling attack through pure inspiration?
Maybe our bowling attack isn't as fantastic as we thought and not having Smith, Warner and Bancroft has zero impact on that.

 

[muzby]

Maybe our bowling attack isn't as fantastic as we thought and not having Smith, Warner and Bancroft has zero impact on that.

Disagree.

Today of all days our bowlers could have benefited from a well-sandpapered ball..

 

[ouryears]

Disagree.

Today of all days our bowlers could have benefited from a well-sandpapered ball..

Mickey lane was spot on when he created this post.
The first captain in 80 years to lose a home series to India
Not even our other shit house era teams managed that
Not just lose it....but be smashed from pillar to post
The troops certainly are not playing for Paine
They do what they like with no respect for the captain

Bowlers are bowling wide, long and short, dropped catches, and the list goes on.
Langer and Paine must be sacked
Mary is a pro compared to these guys, yet you scream to sack Mary
Paine is the weakest and least inspiring ever
The results tell us this is a fact

 

[rednwhites]

I think it's a bit of both. That was the most feeble effort I can remember seeing from an Australian test team. They absolutely gave up the ghost from both a tactical and skill point of view and Paine has to be somewhat responsible for not demanding enough of elite sportsmen. We can make excuses for the bowlers like the pitch, fatigue and playing the number one team but really it is not good enough. Selectors have a tough job for the first time in history, and quite clearly Australian cricket, in the long game form, is in a dire state. Can't blame Paine for the lack of talent. I'm not sure there's a better choice for captain either, maybe Lyon, as he is a toiler and has brains.

Not wanting to make excuses but the fact is this a symptom of 20/20 cricket's rise and the fact that they have had to spice up junior cricket so that kids get more instant gratification from playing. When India have 60 times the population it helps them to find freaks like Pujara who can play with marvellous discipline.

 

[Saint_JimmyG]

Mickey lane was spot on when he created this post.
The first captain in 80 years to lose a home series to India
Not even our other shit house era teams managed that
Not just lose it....but be smashed from pillar to post
The troops certainly are not playing for Paine
They do what they like with no respect for the captain

Bowlers are bowling wide, long and short, dropped catches, and the list goes on.
Langer and Paine must be sacked
Mary is a pro compared to these guys, yet you scream to sack Mary
Paine is the weakest and least inspiring ever
The results tell us this is a fact

Where do you start with a post that is so fundamentally (never mind factually) incorrect?

It’s a moot point but should India not lose this Test (highly unlikely), it will have won its first ever series in the past 70-Years (not 80).

This is not to say the Indians haven’t gone close in previous attempts. Many so called “experts” are completely oblivious here.

Think 2003-04 (1 all) and 1978-79 (3-2). Speaking of the former series, India scored over 700 in its first “dig”. It’s fair to say, historically, it enjoys the SCG.

Smashed? Well, that was true in Melbourne but definitely not in Adelaide where poor shot selection (e.g. Finch, Khawaja and Marsh) played a dear part in Australia’s demise.

However, it’s your absurd observation that no other Australian teams have played so poorly that goes beyond the pale.

I wonder if you are old enough to recall Australia being soundly beaten by New Zealand in 1985-86?

That’s right...NEW FRICKIN’ ZEALAND!

That was this country’s cricketing nadir, as far as I’m concerned; this Indian team is a pretty good one. Incidentally, Australia losing to the Kiwis came soon after the absence of Chappell, Lillee and Marsh....three all time greats of the game. Of course, Australia is missing two of its own top tier players in Smith and Warner.

Coincidence?

However, it’s your absurd observation that the players aren’t playing for Paine (and presumably Langer) that piques my interest. Are you not aware that the side’s performances (particularly the bowlers) were on the slide WELL BEFORE Paine was appointed with the captaincy? Shane Warne has said quite a bit about this over the past few days.

Dropped catches? That’s a deadset cracker. I guess Paine is responsible for that too? Curiously, where does the team’s fielding coach, Brad Haddin, accountability start? Using your logic, shouldn’t he also be given the boot? Batting coach, Graeme Hick? Don’t get me started...

Your lack of knowledge is thigh slappingly hilarious.

 

[muzby]

Mickey lane was spot on when he created this post

Actually I created that post, not Mickey.

My name is clearly there in bold type right at the top of the quote.

 

[madunit]

There's a few problems with Australian cricket
*Fast bowlers aren't taught how to swing the ball, they are just trying to bowl fast. None of them have high arm actions, making it hard to get much swing, thus making them easier to play.
*Batsmen have zero patience. This is largely due to the high volume of limited over cricket now in the calendar.
*Batsmen have for too long been woeful against spin.

On the upside, while every former player is whinging about the team losing it's Aura and all that horseshit, that Aura led to the sandpaper incident in South Africa, so if that's been lost, then that is a good f**king thing that we can build upon.

When was the last time India and Australia had a Test series that was played in such high spirits.

While many don't care for this, it is important. Because for too long Australian players masked their weaknesses with sledging. People thought it was good hard cricket, when in fact it was grubby shithouse cricket.

The culture appears to have been completely changed in a positive manner in a very short period of time and that's a huge positive.

We're left with something that's been ignored for way too long, properly developing player skillsets and techniques to ensure we have the best players, playing at their best, consistently, in the top sides.

Tim Paine is a makeshift captain until someone else comes along to take the team to the next level. He is doing his job well enough. Tactically he is unimaginative and lacking any concept of how to find a batsmans weakness and then exploit it.

Having three quicks who basically bowl the same thing all the time doesn't help. What made Australia great in the bast was the variance in it's pace bowlers.

McGrath's line, length, bounce and late swing. Lee's express pace and Gillespie who was a bit of both.

We need our fastest bowler and our best pace bowler who can swing any ball, anywhere in the world as bare minimums in our Test sides.

 

[muzby]

There's a few problems with Australian cricket
*Fast bowlers aren't taught how to swing the ball, they are just trying to bowl fast. None of them have high arm actions, making it hard to get much swing, thus making them easier to play.
*Batsmen have zero patience. This is largely due to the high volume of limited over cricket now in the calendar.
*Batsmen have for too long been woeful against spin.

On the upside, while every former player is whinging about the team losing it's Aura and all that horseshit, that Aura led to the sandpaper incident in South Africa, so if that's been lost, then that is a good f**king thing that we can build upon.

When was the last time India and Australia had a Test series that was played in such high spirits.

While many don't care for this, it is important. Because for too long Australian players masked their weaknesses with sledging. People thought it was good hard cricket, when in fact it was grubby shithouse cricket.

The culture appears to have been completely changed in a positive manner in a very short period of time and that's a huge positive.

We're left with something that's been ignored for way too long, properly developing player skillsets and techniques to ensure we have the best players, playing at their best, consistently, in the top sides.

Your common sense and level headedness has no place in here..


And yes.. I blame 20/20 too.. interestingly, watching the big bash this year, are team totals on the decline vs previous years?

 

[madunit]

Your common sense and level headedness has no place in here..


And yes.. I blame 20/20 too.. interestingly, watching the big bash this year, are team totals on the decline vs previous years?

I've never watched BBL games, but looking at some results just quickly, the scoring does seem to be down a bit.

If players lack patience in BBL then how can we expect them to have any in Test matches.

 

[Saint_JimmyG]

Crowd figures are seemingly down too, particularly in Sydney.

I wonder how much impact (if any) CA’s decision to give Foxtel exclusive broadcasting rights (e.g. ODIs) is having?

 

[madunit]

Crowd figures are seemingly down too, particularly in Sydney.

I wonder how much impact (if any) CA’s decision to give Foxtel exclusive broadcasting rights (e.g. ODIs) is having?

Too early to tell. Crowds may have been affected by the sandpaper incident more than anything.

 

[Dragonslayer]

After reading through the sensible responses on this thread, the overwelming theme is that limited overs cricket, especially 20/20, has seriously impacted on the way we approach test cricket.
To come out and compare teams of present day to teams of the past is neglecting the fact that both bowling and batting techniques have changed considerably. Eg:
Bowling in limited overs and in particular 20/20 is max 4 overs, normally bowled as 3 to start and 1 at the end. Fast and blast only. Turn to test cricket where its line and length with subtle variation spread over a spell of 6 overs (or more) straight, then another 6 in the 2nd session and another 6 in the final session. For linited over cricket that would tally to nearly 5 games.
Batsmen are the same. Defense is almost non-existant, stroke play a thing of the past as is playing every ball on its merits. Every ball now must be dispatched to the boundary.
As for our current captain, i posted last week that his batting average was superior to Steve Smith in 2018, a fact that some chose to ignore. Hes going a jobbthat he never was prepared for, nor had any on-the-job training, he was just thrusted into it, and with a team reeling from the sandpaper gate incident. He knows he is just a fill in.
As for the 3 involved with the sandpaper incident. Bancroft has already returned and hasnt set the world on fire. Hence when Smith and Warner finish their exile, they too will need time to find form and rhythm, they wont waltz back into the team as some expect.
Its easy to find scapegoats when the team isnt performing, but one has to dig deeper to find the real causes not just sentence our players to complete oblivion. Seriously, what will our up and coming young stars think of that? Get lambasted for playing test cricket or be a star belting 20 runs in 5 balls in 20/20? This is more your answer.

 

[Old Timer]

The value of Sheffield Shield has been eroded by short form cricket and the test players particularly bowlers don’t play nearly enough of it either.
Batsmen coming though are often playing against poorer quality bowling and scoring runs too easily and get found out when they get to test level
In years gone by the touring test side would always play the state side prior to the test in that city so again valuable experience no longer available.
The BBL has taken precedence over what was the best system in the world in creating test cricketers.
In a way RL has followed a similar model by getting rid of valuable rep games in favour of populist big money games that are played at a time that doesn’t serve the best interests of the game as a whole.

 

[Crush]

Crowd figures are seemingly down too, particularly in Sydney.

I wonder how much impact (if any) CA’s decision to give Foxtel exclusive broadcasting rights (e.g. ODIs) is having?

Plenty of cricket on Channel 7

 

[mickeylane]

The problem w Tim Paine as captain is that he offers no influence over a game as captain. He can’t bat, he doesn’t obviously bowl, his tactics are average even to the point where his own bowlers don’t follow his instructions - so as a captain can’t do what his predecessors could do ie: go in and score a match winning ton when needed (see Smith, Waugh, Taylor, Border) . It’s obvious though that he’s leading a team that is inept in the batting dept. take it as read if Smith and Warner played this series Australia go very close to winning! That’s the difference and the class gulf that’s missing in this current team.

 

[ouryears]

Where do you start with a post that is so fundamentally (never mind factually) incorrect?

It’s a moot point but should India not lose this Test (highly unlikely), it will have won its first ever series in the past 70-Years (not 80).

This is not to say the Indians haven’t gone close in previous attempts. Many so called “experts” are completely oblivious here.

Think 2003-04 (1 all) and 1978-79 (3-2). Speaking of the former series, India scored over 700 in its first “dig”. It’s fair to say, historically, it enjoys the SCG.

Smashed? Well, that was true in Melbourne but definitely not in Adelaide where poor shot selection (e.g. Finch, Khawaja and Marsh) played a dear part in Australia’s demise.

However, it’s your absurd observation that no other Australian teams have played so poorly that goes beyond the pale.

I wonder if you are old enough to recall Australia being soundly beaten by New Zealand in 1985-86?

That’s right...NEW FRICKIN’ ZEALAND!

That was this country’s cricketing nadir, as far as I’m concerned; this Indian team is a pretty good one. Incidentally, Australia losing to the Kiwis came soon after the absence of Chappell, Lillee and Marsh....three all time greats of the game. Of course, Australia is missing two of its own top tier players in Smith and Warner.

Coincidence?

However, it’s your absurd observation that the players aren’t playing for Paine (and presumably Langer) that piques my interest. Are you not aware that the side’s performances (particularly the bowlers) were on the slide WELL BEFORE Paine was appointed with the captaincy? Shane Warne has said quite a bit about this over the past few days.

Dropped catches? That’s a deadset cracker. I guess Paine is responsible for that too? Curiously, where does the team’s fielding coach, Brad Haddin, accountability start? Using your logic, shouldn’t he also be given the boot? Batting coach, Graeme Hick? Don’t get me started...

Your lack of knowledge is thigh slappingly hilarious.

We have been smashed.
We won one test
Beaten in all others, inc being obliterated in two of them
Not even a contest
Don’t try and make it look respectable
70 years......80 years......big deal, pointing out it is 10 years less is a sad attempt
Saying India almost beat us in other series......so what, they didn’t win did they

This is the lamest team of all time, obliterated vs Pakistan, smashed by India, next it will be Sri Lanka..... and then it will be the poms turn

Our current team is pack full of unskilled, non talented and out of their depth players,
Embarrassing.

 

[Old Timer]

The problem w Tim Paine as captain is that he offers no influence over a game as captain. He can’t bat, he doesn’t obviously bowl, his tactics are average even to the point where his own bowlers don’t follow his instructions - so as a captain can’t do what his predecessors could do ie: go in and score a match winning ton when needed (see Smith, Waugh, Taylor, Border) . It’s obvious though that he’s leading a team that is inept in the batting dept. take it as read if Smith and Warner played this series Australia go very close to winning! That’s the difference and the class gulf that’s missing in this current team.

We have been smashed.
We won one test
Beaten in all others, inc being obliterated in two of them
Not even a contest
Don’t try and make it look respectable
70 years......80 years......big deal, pointing out it is 10 years less is a sad attempt
Saying India almost beat us in other series......so what, they didn’t win did they

This is the lamest team of all time, obliterated vs Pakistan, smashed by India, next it will be Sri Lanka..... and then it will be the poms turn

Our current team is pack full of unskilled, non talented and out of their depth players,
Embarrassing.

India have a population of how many to draw players from compared to Australia?
It was only ever a matter of time for them to get professional about their cricketing programme and for them to climb the ladder and sit at the top of world rankings and this has long been heralded by Chappelli and others.
India have 8 players in their side averaging over 50 with the bat in 1st class cricket and we have none with only 2 averaging over 40.
India have adopted the philosophy that their domestic 4 day season with some 36 or so teams competing in 4 separate competitions will be stand alone and their 1 day BBL equivalent is played at the end of the domestic season.
After Australian cricket decided it didn't need DK Lillee to assist with their fast bowling he went to India and then to top that off DK Lillee got Glenn Mc Grath involved with his programme over there.
India have a team that has been building under the likes of Tendulkar, Dhoni and obviously Kohli has the skill set to take it to the next level.
India have a team where they and the captain are the focus and not the coach, whereas we have a plethora of coaches going before the camera making apologies or excuses for bad players and bad skill sets.
How is any of this Paine's fault?
The fact is at this time I don't think it would matter who was in our team or who is our captain, this Indian team would be far too good and wasn't that the case in South Africa as well, which is actually what has led us to this appalling situation?
You guys want to blame Paine and then welcome back Warner & Co which just shows you have little respect for the game.

 

[Saint_JimmyG]

The problem w Tim Paine as captain is that he offers no influence over a game as captain. He can’t bat, he doesn’t obviously bowl, his tactics are average even to the point where his own bowlers don’t follow his instructions - so as a captain can’t do what his predecessors could do ie: go in and score a match winning ton when needed (see Smith, Waugh, Taylor, Border) . It’s obvious though that he’s leading a team that is inept in the batting dept. take it as read if Smith and Warner played this series Australia go very close to winning! That’s the difference and the class gulf that’s missing in this current team.

It’s also a sad indictment that Australia has to rely on two individuals in order to be “competitive”.

 

[Saint_JimmyG]

India have a population of how many to draw players from compared to Australia?
It was only ever a matter of time for them to get professional about their cricketing programme and for them to climb the ladder and sit at the top of world rankings and this has long been heralded by Chappelli and others.
India have 8 players in their side averaging over 50 with the bat in 1st class cricket and we have none with only 2 averaging over 40.
India have adopted the philosophy that their domestic 4 day season with some 36 or so teams competing in 4 separate competitions will be stand alone and their 1 day BBL equivalent is played at the end of the domestic season.
After Australian cricket decided it didn't need DK Lillee to assist with their fast bowling he went to India and then to top that off DK Lillee got Glenn Mc Grath involved with his programme over there.
India have a team that has been building under the likes of Tendulkar, Dhoni and obviously Kohli has the skill set to take it to the next level.
India have a team where they and the captain are the focus and not the coach, whereas we have a plethora of coaches going before the camera making apologies or excuses for bad players and bad skill sets.
How is any of this Paine's fault?
The fact is at this time I don't think it would matter who was in our team or who is our captain, this Indian team would be far too good and wasn't that the case in South Africa as well, which is actually what has led us to this appalling situation?
You guys want to blame Paine and then welcome back Warner & Co which just shows you have little respect for the game.

I agree with everything you’ve said, although I would replace fourth last word with “knowledge”.