Lockyer > Johns: no contest

[perverse]

By all means share your opinion. That's what im doing.

Just on this part, "Johns was good, but Lockyer can get the best out of his side." Care to elaborate?

Because to me here are two of the greatest examples of getting the best out of your side:

1) Making Sean Rudder a Premiership winner and actually making him look like a quality 5/8 in the process. Only a genius could ever have done that.

2) Was it 2004 when with Joey injured the Knights started the season 0-11? And looking like one of the worst sides of all-time in the process. And when he comes back in they look like a quality side and win something like 10 of their last 13 games. Now THATS making your side look good like its never been done before by a single player in history.

Basically every single player in that Knights side when Joey was around - bar Bedsy, Kennedy and Steve SImpson - looked like a much better player with Johns in the team.

So how you can imply that he didn't always get the best out of his teammates with that comment im not quite sure...

was 2005, mate. people were calling for the knights to get a wildcard entry into the finals :lol:.

i think this is the one quality that stands about about Johns for mine above all else. i don't doubt Lockyers ability to get 100% out of his team... he is quite a genius at utilizing the tools around him... but unless he has a quality set of tools around him he has looked pretty ordinary himself in the past. i'm a big Lockyer fan, and don't mean any disrespect to him by saying that. just about every player in history has struggled in ordinary teams.

Johns just had this ability to not just get the most out of what was around him, but actually get more than what the players were capable of out of them. whenever he was on the field... some bloody ordinary players looked like absolute champions. there were times when joey had all the tools around him too, don't get me wrong. we won 2 premierships on the back of it.

 

[Red Bear]

That was 05 tommy and yes, Johns was brilliant from origin II onwards in club form, nearly dragged them from a long way down.

Look at the similar players during the johns era and post-johns, suddenly they were rubbish. Smith had to clean the whole joint out due to the amount of players riding on Johns coat tails.

 

[BDH]

There is more places to prove yourself then just the "Origin level".

Johns is the more skillful player, even Darren Lockyer thinks so.

Is that why Lockyer has more premierships than Johns?

Of course, the NSW mentality will tell us he played in a stacked club side. I guess at the end of the day, when he has long retired, we will only have statistics.....in which Lockyer beats Johns in every sense.

P.S. Of course Lockyer thinks Johns is a more skillful player, every player wraps another.

 

[diddi kong]

[QUOTE Just as based on total accumulated influence Ricky Ponting and Steve Waugh are better than Don Bradman....[/QUOTE]

You are gravely mistaken my friend. Bradman lead the invincibles and is the most famous player ever, he is the most famous australian ever.

Lockyer was the best fullback in the world, moved to five eight, completely adjusted his game, is the best five eight in the world. That's greatness. As for influence, people say he had great teams, but a lot of those teams included young people coming through that developed under him. He is a great player, a leader and a role model. Joey was just amazingly talented

 

[perverse]

Is that why Lockyer has more premierships than Johns?

Of course, the NSW mentality will tell us he played in a stacked club side. I guess at the end of the day, when he has long retired, we will only have statistics.....in which Lockyer beats Johns in every sense.

P.S. Of course Lockyer thinks Johns is a more skillful player, every player wraps another.

Lockyer also had the advantage of Wayne Bennett coaching him and his team. Lockyer is a genius, but he's still no Andrew Johns. you can call it NSW mentality... you can call it whatever you like, but Lockyer isn't as good of a football player as Andrew Johns was, and it's no slight on Lockyer whatsoever.

 

[El Diablo]

Johns as a player sh*ts on Lockyer from a great height

silly question

 

[MightyBronco]

Lockyer has won far more games at club, state and international than anyone else. And im not talking about being IN the winning team, im talking about being the major factor in winning it.

 

[BDH]

So in a nutshell;

• the vast majority from Queensland claim Lockyer is a greater player.
• the vast majority from NSW claim Johns is a greater player.
• the vast majority from BOTH states claim Lockyer was better at Origin level.
• Lockyer has better statistics, in nearly every facet of the game, then Johns.
• Lockyer has been named the best at the time in the two positions he has played.
• Lockyer has had far greater longevity.

End thread?

 

[perverse]

So in a nutshell;

• the vast majority from Queensland claim Lockyer is a greater player.
• the vast majority from NSW claim Johns is a greater player.
• the vast majority from BOTH states claim Lockyer was better at Origin level.
• Lockyer has better statistics, in nearly every facet of the game, then Johns.
• Lockyer has been named the best at the time in the two positions he has played.
• Lockyer has had far greater longevity.

End thread?

if it helps you sleep tonight. lol.

 

[hellteam]

So in a nutshell;

• the vast majority from Queensland claim Lockyer is a greater player.
• the vast majority from NSW claim Johns is a greater player.
• the vast majority from BOTH states claim Lockyer was better at Origin level.
• Lockyer has better statistics, in nearly every facet of the game, then Johns.
• Lockyer has been named the best at the time in the two positions he has played.
• Lockyer has had far greater longevity.

End thread?

Good wrap up

 

[Baron Vo Mandor]

You are a grade A idoit.

Johns was good, but Lockyer can get the best out of his side. He has a great influence and a strong passion, which gets the best out of his players.

So in my opinion id rather Lockyer, who has been apart of a Broncos side that has never missed the finals. Lockyer has also had less injuries compared to Johns.

And dont get my started on off-field comparsion.

So why dont you lay off me f**kwit, i have an opinion and il share it.

Well your oppinions f**king geniused did you see the bunch of Nevilles that Joey had to carry around with him for most of his career?

Fair dinkum in the twilight of his career after doing his knee he got the Knights into the top 4 with virtually nobody around him.

Lets see Lockyer do that with a mediocre team.

Fair dinkum have you seen the QLD team the last 2-3 years? Quite possibly the greatest SOO of all time!

Have you seen NSW's side? f**king awful.

Get back to school you little twonk.

 

[Someone]

Well your oppinions f**king geniused did you see the bunch of Nevilles that Joey had to carry around with him for most of his career?

Fair dinkum in the twilight of his career after doing his knee he got the Knights into the top 4 with virtually nobody around him.

Lets see Lockyer do that with a mediocre team.

Fair dinkum have you seen the QLD team the last 2-3 years? Quite possibly the greatest SOO of all time!

Have you seen NSW's side? f**king awful.

Get back to school you little twonk.

This is the exact reason i quit posting properly and started trolling. You have beaten me, you big ol bully. I now have my balls removed because i said id rather Lockyer in my team then Johns.

Some people need to grow up.

 

[Dazzat]

So in a nutshell;

• the vast majority from Queensland claim Lockyer is a greater player.
• the vast majority from NSW claim Johns is a greater player.
• the vast majority from BOTH states claim Lockyer was better at Origin level.
• Lockyer has better statistics, in nearly every facet of the game, then Johns.
• Lockyer has been named the best at the time in the two positions he has played.
• Lockyer has had far greater longevity.

End thread?

Should be the end of the thread, but unfortunately we live in a world where NSWers like young Baron live with a pair of "Joey-tinted glasses" permanently attached to their face.

The amazing tinted lens on these glasses, block out all relevant, irrefutable evidence that point to any other opinion other than their own "Joey World View".

Look ... stats ... what stats ...!

Premierships, Origin wins and Australian feats of heroics by anyone else apart from Joey is instantly blocked out by these amazing tinted lenses.

And these lenses also have a magnifying effect, making Joey look bigger and better than he ever was.

The real amazing thing about these glasses is the tint doubles in thickness every year past Joey's retirement. Truely amazing!

If you order now, we'll also throw in the amazing "Joey Sorry Mask". Whenever you're caught for something illegal or unsavory, just put this mask on and no one will ever know your not sorry at all (you're just sorry you got caught).

 

[icewind]

1) Making Sean Rudder a Premiership winner and actually making him look like a quality 5/8 in the process. Only a genius could ever have done that.

I'll see your Sean Rudder and raise you Shane Perry.



I'll make this plain and simple, when on his drugs.. ooops i meant game, Johns there are very few better. Johns peak skillwise was higher, but could only manage a couple of peaks in his career. Lockyers career though, has consisted of SUSTAINED EXCELLENCE at a very high level. Maybe not peaking as high as Johns, but sustained in more than flashes here and there.

Want someone to stake your life on? D. Lockyer. Want someone to win an unwinnable game once every 5 years? A. Johns.

 

[8Ball]

Well your oppinions f**king geniused did you see the bunch of Nevilles that Joey had to carry around with him for most of his career?

Fair dinkum in the twilight of his career after doing his knee he got the Knights into the top 4 with virtually nobody around him.

Lets see Lockyer do that with a mediocre team.

Fair dinkum have you seen the QLD team the last 2-3 years? Quite possibly the greatest SOO of all time!

Have you seen NSW's side? f**king awful.

Get back to school you little twonk.

Geez I know I'm gonna regret this but I'm going to weigh in with broncos coloured glasses as off as possible.

Johns had better kicking and passing skills. As a player, he is the only one I've seen who was able to grab the game by the scruff of the neck, no matter how badly smashed his forward pack was getting. There would be heaps of games where the knights would be getting hammered, and suddenly, Newcastle would get a scrum or a penalty, and Johns more often than not would be able to lay on a try. He certainly had it comfortably over Lockyer in this regard. Lockyer was definitely a better runner of the football in his prime. Anyone who says otherwise is an idiot. The only player in the history of the game who would be more dangerous the more pressure you apply on him when kicking the football. Sterling seemed to get sick of emphasising not pressuing Lockyer when he was kicking, and to just let him kick. As Lockyer got older though, he lost a bit of that, especially when he was moved to five eighth.

What always irks me with Johns v Lockyer debates are knights fans using the fact that knights had a sh*t team. They had a reasonable forward pack, and a certain hooker called Danny Buderus. I will have to rely on the knights fans for this as a serious question: was Joey the same player he was without an international class number 9 feeding him the ball?

Lockyer had Shane f**king Perry, Brett Seymour, and Shaun Berrigan feeding him in his early years at five eighth at club level. Even Wallace has been fairly meh, during his time at the broncos. You'd also have the same people claiming that Hunt was sh*t, or Berrigan only scored tries cause of Lockyer, or Kemp... and these are usually the same people who that say Lockyer is overrated.


The things that stand out for Lockyer for me, is his longevity, and the fact that he is at the very top of the pile in two positions. At fullback, there were none better. At five eighth, right up there with the best.

Having said all that, if we were to base this on pure skill/footballing ability alone:

Lockyer at fullback or Johns at halfback? Johns by a nose. Some people forget quickly just how damn good Lockyer was at fullback though.

Lockyer at five-eighth or Johns at halfback? Johns by a reasonable margin.

Effect on origin? Lockyer, but thats really an unfair comparison as Joey didn't really play that many games for NSW.

 

[Fein]

Lockyer does things with the ball in hand that Johns could only dream of.

Johns performed kicks that Lockyer could only dream of.

Johns head on defence was better than Lockyers.

Lockyers cover defence was better than Johns.

Johns was slow, Lockyer is/was fast.

I think it comes down to the type of footballer you prefer in their respective positions.

As a half back, I rate Langer and Stuart better than Johns.

That said, neither of those two were as versatile to cover other positions like Johns could.

Johns was great but others were better and Lockyer is one of those.

 

[perverse]

What always irks me with Johns v Lockyer debates are knights fans using the fact that knights had a sh*t team. They had a reasonable forward pack, and a certain hooker called Danny Buderus. I will have to rely on the knights fans for this as a serious question: was Joey the same player he was without an international class number 9 feeding him the ball?

The Knights won the GF in 97 without Buderus in the team... with Johns of course laying on the match winner with one of the more bold plays ever seen with seconds to go in a GF. He was doing it well before Buderus showed up.

the thing that irks me the most about people bringing up Buderus and Johns and their relative skills to each other is that one day it's Buderus made Johns look good... a few days later it's Johns made Buderus look good... all depending on who you ask.

ask a Knights fan and they'll tell you that they could both stand on their own as excellent players in their own right... and we were just super lucky to enjoy them as a combination.

 

[Coaster]

Johns played in two positions also at rep level, he played hooker cause he wasn't even good enough to be starting halfback.

 

[8Ball]

The Knights won the GF in 97 without Buderus in the team... with Johns of course laying on the match winner with one of the more bold plays ever seen with seconds to go in a GF. He was doing it well before Buderus showed up.

the thing that irks me the most about people bringing up Buderus and Johns and their relative skills to each other is that one day it's Buderus made Johns look good... a few days later it's Johns made Buderus look good... all depending on who you ask.

ask a Knights fan and they'll tell you that they could both stand on their own as excellent players in their own right... and we were just super lucky to enjoy them as a combination.

He had Matt Johns in 97 mate and those two had a fairly handy combination. ;-)

 

[perverse]

He had Matt Johns in 97 mate and those two had a fairly handy combination. ;-)

yeah, Matty looked awesome when he left the Knights. :? good combination, sure... but there's no secret about who in the family had the most skill by a long, long, loooooong stretch.

if you are trying to suggest that Matty Johns made Joey look good.. then Buderus took over later, you are delusional.