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McGregor Appointed Full Time

Jubileeboy

First Grade
Messages
9,259
Saints won the comp...allot of players went to other clubs or retired....this leaves allot of money in the piggybank to buy quality players...who did we replace these quality players with?...Cuthbertson?

Now look at Souths...they're losing Sam Burgess...who are they getting?..Tim Grant and Glenn Stewart.

So where's their so called "re-building" phase.

Ben Te'o says Hi :D
Guys...just playing devils advocate here, nothing personal and a lot of what people are saying makes sense but it's a bloody lottery with the salary cap and how it is managed. Penrith and their moneyball philosophy is working and makes it look simple but they have taken years to 'rebuild'. Been a long time between drinks for them but are on the up.
Gould and Cleary cleared the decks and offloaded plenty...Jennings, Lewis et al and not popular decisions as far as supporters were concerned but this is now paying dividends.
Souths are under massive cap pressure even after the two signings mentioned for next year. I can vouch for this. That is where the window of opportunity comes from. If not last year, then it needs to be this year for Souths as they will lose more of their starting line up to big bucks on offer from other clubs and the odd 'retirement' at the end of next year.
Manly will be paying close to $300k ea to offload Stewart and Watmough....keeping in mind that's just to have them not playing at Manly. Hardly good cap management in that instance but they have picked up some bargain buys in the last few years that have come good for them. They will possibly lose half of their starting pack this year and it is common knowledge Matai wants out and Lyons is on the wrong side of 30.
For all his failings, Ricky Stuart recognised the dead wood at Parra last year and you'll recall there were 12 players from their squad of 25 told to look elsewhere.
Just yesterday, Luke Bailey has confirmed his retirement even though he is only 56 and happy to go around for another year ...but no contract on offer. Titans have no money.
Roosters have been on a roller coaster ride for years. I strongly believe they are at the leading edge of salary cap abuse and creative accounting.
Canberra have shown they cannot attract decent players even after offering over and above.
Broncos have major issues yet to come to light. I won't speculate any further on this for now.
Storm...pfft...cheats but have just bought Learoyd-lahrs and will get value for money. Hoffmann leaving, Smith, Slater and Cronk all approaching retirement and will free up close to $3m of their cap funds...or will it be more like $2m on the books?
Bulldogs...same as Storm but have a decent recruitment network run by Crusher Cleal that stretches far and wide.
Cronulla...lol ....spent big on Lewis, Tupou, Heightington, Gibbs, Fifita, Carney, Ayshford, Gallen and have missed their window. They will now be rebuilding for the next few years..and hopefully in Perth!
These are just some of the examples of recent cap management issues that show just how difficult it is to get it right. I'm not saying we've always done it well but you seriously need the stars to align to get it all right. What it also shows is that we have a good blend of experienced 'marquee players' and some absolute crackers of juniors coming through and our future actually looks bright. We've also got a few no frills types that we need at the right price to keep us moving along. They will never be world beaters but are a reasonable fit for squad requirements and meeting the cap. We can only hope these guys prove their worth and value to our club. Hopefully this also highlights why we don't always sign those top shelf players that become available due to being released by other clubs. Does everyone understand each club MUST have 25 players in their first grade squad? Not 23, not 19 and the cap can only stretch so far. We can't sign them all and some of the claims made about our recruitment etc, may well be far from the truth in terms of who is available, what has been promised by others and exactly how much money do they want !
Getting back onto the post subject, our biggest problem now and since the days of Creeping Jesus has been the coaching appointment. My fingers are crossed hoping for an improvement in what lies ahead but our mix of contracted players is certainly getting close to what we need for our window of opportunity. A little fine tuning here and there, a couple of purchases and a couple of player off loads and we just might look the goods. The future looks good and I'm prepared to think we will be back where we belong in the coming years.
 

Jubileeboy

First Grade
Messages
9,259
lol at devils advocate. You're a transparent apologist

Stalking again? I'll take my rose coloured glasses off.
I see good in most people. Perhaps you're just a little misguided or misunderstood ?
Either way, I've been around the red and white block enough times to take the good with the bad, fellow Saints supporter.
If you think otherwise and have the solution to endless premierships, world peace and why The Dugan has no offload, then good for you. I'm sure you are a well sought after commodity....somewhere !
 

Weipa Dragon

Juniors
Messages
1,182
Good summary jubilee. I know what you are saying with stars aligning. Some players just kill
It at say 25 instead of 21 and thru are cheap. Remember Shane webcake was always a decent forward in hiw early to mid twenties but became a legend and match winner in his late twenties to thirties. Yeah I think we have the stars but really need the no frills front rower who plays with all heart and the flash front rower who is like a volcano but needs a rest. We have been below average under Steven but I don't see the same gloom with Mary. I truly think the qld cup is where we will find those hearty front rowers to join rory and the flash big fella.
 

dragonreddy

Juniors
Messages
1,217
It is most likely to be the $$$$$. Doust is always looking for a bargain and Mary comes cheap. Mary's appointment solves some Boardroom politics and at first sight, is a very economical solution.

Time will tell whether this gamble proves to be a winner. My view is that the Board should not be taking such risks with regards to the prosperity of our Club. I would have thought the events of the past 3 years would have had a huge impact on the Board Member's attitude on such matters however, it seems not to be the case.

The old saying-" you get what you pay for " applies here Possum.
 

giboz71

First Grade
Messages
9,578
I think people are confusing my point about "rebuilding" as simply about recruitment and replacing players.

My point really relates to building the foundations in which to build a team. The only constants in our side over last 3 years has been our two wingers (Nighty and Bmoz) and Creagh and Merrin in the forwards. The rest of the key positions in the side have been a revolving door of failed experiments as a result of inept recruitment and even worse coaching. Its impossible to have a successful team without the foundations. We got Dugan, Marshall and Widdop this year, 3 pretty handy players and still nothing as a result of that very reason.

We finally have a side which we can get excited about. When I say "build" for the future I mean the following:

- Keep our 1,6,7 and 9 together for the whole year (Yes, I mean Dugan to fullback)
- Start bringing through our best juniors if and when inevitable injury/Origin occurs
- Eliminate our deadwood (Hunt and Harrison)
- Decide a centre combination and stick with it
- Use the cap to buy missing pieces (Prop, backrower, blockbusting centre, back up hooker)

Finally and most importantly, stop chopping and changing the team. Decide a combination in the off season and stick with it. It would be nice to see the team as a well drilled cohesive unit for a change. Haven't seen this since Bennett left.
 

possm

Coach
Messages
15,835
I think people are confusing my point about "rebuilding" as simply about recruitment and replacing players.

My point really relates to building the foundations in which to build a team. The only constants in our side over last 3 years has been our two wingers (Nighty and Bmoz) and Creagh and Merrin in the forwards. The rest of the key positions in the side have been a revolving door of failed experiments as a result of inept recruitment and even worse coaching. Its impossible to have a successful team without the foundations. We got Dugan, Marshall and Widdop this year, 3 pretty handy players and still nothing as a result of that very reason.

We finally have a side which we can get excited about. When I say "build" for the future I mean the following:

- Keep our 1,6,7 and 9 together for the whole year (Yes, I mean Dugan to fullback)
- Start bringing through our best juniors if and when inevitable injury/Origin occurs
- Eliminate our deadwood (Hunt and Harrison)
- Decide a centre combination and stick with it
- Use the cap to buy missing pieces (Prop, backrower, blockbusting centre, back up hooker)

Finally and most importantly, stop chopping and changing the team. Decide a combination in the off season and stick with it. It would be nice to see the team as a well drilled cohesive unit for a change. Haven't seen this since Bennett left.

Good post! I would also like to suggest that the right coaching staff will make a big difference to the end result. Mary will need a senior coach to assist him build a competitive squad. One unemployed 1st grade coach and two specialist coaches would do the trick.
 

Get2dachopper!

Juniors
Messages
1,689
I think people are confusing my point about "rebuilding" as simply about recruitment and replacing players.

My point really relates to building the foundations in which to build a team. The only constants in our side over last 3 years has been our two wingers (Nighty and Bmoz) and Creagh and Merrin in the forwards. The rest of the key positions in the side have been a revolving door of failed experiments as a result of inept recruitment and even worse coaching. Its impossible to have a successful team without the foundations. We got Dugan, Marshall and Widdop this year, 3 pretty handy players and still nothing as a result of that very reason.

We finally have a side which we can get excited about. When I say "build" for the future I mean the following:

- Keep our 1,6,7 and 9 together for the whole year (Yes, I mean Dugan to fullback)
- Start bringing through our best juniors if and when inevitable injury/Origin occurs
- Eliminate our deadwood (Hunt and Harrison)
- Decide a centre combination and stick with it
- Use the cap to buy missing pieces (Prop, backrower, blockbusting centre, back up hooker)

Finally and most importantly, stop chopping and changing the team. Decide a combination in the off season and stick with it. It would be nice to see the team as a well drilled cohesive unit for a change. Haven't seen this since Bennett left.

Agree, good post. Mary has to simply replicate what Bennet did in the 2008/2009 off-season.
In saying that, he probably won't, out of spite/stubbornness to prove a point. I can only assume that he had a problem with Bennett as Bennet had no time for Mary, banishing him to the Illawarra cup.

How many times do you see it in a workplace? A new manager comes in and changes what already is working, just for the sake of change. Even if the changes aren't working, they will stubbornly stick to their guns until they are dragged out kicking and screaming.:crazy:

Mary, if your reading, don't be a stubborn f&*ck. If you want to be successful, do what successful people are doing.:cool:
 

Get2dachopper!

Juniors
Messages
1,689
Price tried to replicate what Bennett did that was a great idea lol.

Yeah I guess he did, just have at look at how well managed Soward and Weyman were under price. Not to mention our defence. :roll:

Seriously, every ounce of good that Bennett instilled was coached out of them by the end of 2012.
 
Messages
17,055
Price has gone thats all that matters if Mary wants success he has to do better and so do the players off loading some of the crap will be a good start ie Hunt and Harrison.
 

Slippery Morris

First Grade
Messages
7,804
Looks like Mary has won over half the Dragons fans now he has to win the other half and a good start will be his retention and recruitment. Interested to see who he can bring into the club and who he releases.

Releasing Hunt is a good start.
 

grouch

First Grade
Messages
8,393
Mary has done a great job to get us to outright 11th after taking over from Price who had us in equal 11th.

Expect similar Price-tine efforts going forward
 

Weipa Dragon

Juniors
Messages
1,182
Have you not watched the team play a lot better footy under Mary, Grouch? Honestly, do you not see that we were 11th and only going down further under Price than a much better 2nd half of the year once Mary took over? We were also 1st under Price for three rounds or something crap oiif you want to go off numbers. The team are enjoyable to watch again and yeah not the elite...yet but scoring points and playing good footy. I don't see us beating Melbourne or the Cowboys under Price and we did with Mary. One of those teams will be there on GF day I think. Call me an optimist but lies lies and statistics fits with this 11 under Price- 11 under Mary nonsense.
 

grouch

First Grade
Messages
8,393
I don't see us beating Melbourne or the Cowboys under Price and we did with Mary. One of those teams will be there on GF day I think.
Well we did technically beat Melbourne in Melbourne, over 80 minutes. And Price also beat the Warriors (twice) who are just as likely to be there on GF day as the Cowboys. So there goes that theory.

Maybe Mary is better than Price. I say it's questionable based on the above, but in any case it is a very low standard to set. We're looking at mediocrity with him in charge
 

Get2dachopper!

Juniors
Messages
1,689
Price
Win ratio 40%
1. Tigers, W
2. Warr, W
3. Sharks, W
4. Broncs, L
5. Rabbits, L
6. Storm, L
7. Warr, W
8. Roost, L
9. Bulld, L
10. Eels, L
11. Bye
Mary
Win ratio 53.846%

12. Rabbits, L
13. Sharks, W
14. Pen, L
15. Storm, W
16. Titans, W
17. Cowboys, W
18. Bye
19. Manly, L
20. Tigers, W
21. Roost, L
22. Pen, L
23. Raiders, W
24. Titans W
25. Broncs, L
26. Newc?

Even if we lose this week, Mary will still have a better win ratio of 50%. Still, he has just taken over the worst coach in our history. Do we make the 8 winning 50% of our games?
 
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jenninga

First Grade
Messages
8,545
Have you not watched the team play a lot better footy under Mary, Grouch? Honestly, do you not see that we were 11th and only going down further under Price than a much better 2nd half of the year once Mary took over? We were also 1st under Price for three rounds or something crap oiif you want to go off numbers. The team are enjoyable to watch again and yeah not the elite...yet but scoring points and playing good footy. I don't see us beating Melbourne or the Cowboys under Price and we did with Mary. One of those teams will be there on GF day I think. Call me an optimist but lies lies and statistics fits with this 11 under Price- 11 under Mary nonsense.

It's not nonsense,look at the calibre of teams we beat,who was understrength and look who we beat out of the top8 sides,bugger all.You can be happy with mediocrity but don't try spinning the crap that we have been better under Mary.We are still 11th and it is a reflection where we are at in the comp,as they say the table doesn't lie.
And if it enjoyable watching teams score soft tries against us ,then it's a wonder we have a difference of opinion.
 

Slippery Morris

First Grade
Messages
7,804
When Price took over from Bennett everyone was optimistic and were willing to give this guy time to get the team going. They were deadset aweful the first season under Price but people still thought Price needed time. Because he took over Bennett after a golden era they were not use to a bad season for a while.

Mary has taken over and he has been smashed and not given as much patience and leniency by some as Price was given. Because he took over from a team that had allready had 2 bad season people wanted success straight away which is opposite to Price. They struggled against wooden spooners for 2 years and played aweful. They were boring to watch and had no attack. Mind you they had Soward who is playing in a team that has a horiffic injury toll and is managing to create tries for them so no excuses there. Price had the cattle just did not use them. How many of the Panthers are playing Rep footy again? They expected Mary to get them in the 8 in his first 12 games in charge? Price could not do it in 2 seasons yet Mary was expected to do so in 12 games. Up until Rd 25 Saints had a chance to be in the Finals. Closest they got in the last 3 season.

Give Mary a break. They are definately playing much better footy and are not boring to watch which is the first step in the right direction. Saints are actually being credited for playing good footy by commentators again. Something that has not happened for a while even when Bennett was in charge. Now he just needs the fix certain areas and then you can judge the man. Give the guy at least a full season before he gets bagged. Price got 1 and for others 2 seasons before they realised he was aweful, so give Mary the same courtesy before you judge him.
 
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