moltz staying

[Fingerbang]

They haven't been quoted, but I think It's fair to say they are looking for a resolution with regards to money. Moltzen made his feelings quite clear (supposedly sitting out the year) so it would be even more of an embarrassment if he was forced to play with us and we accepted him.

That is the bit that confuses me. If he chooses to sit out instead of honouring his contract, wouldn't it be sitting out for 3 years? That is how long his contract with Dragons was for.

If he was to sit out for 2012, all that means is his contract with Tigers is completed by then. Not his Dragons contract.

 

[saints4ever]

Who knows. Could be Tele talk which is code for horseshit, but seeing as though 12 is the contentious year in which he is contracted to both teams. If he did say it, It's more than likely to make the Dragons cut him loose even if the NRL make him come to us. This would waste the first of his three years

 

[andrew9148]

That is the bit that confuses me. If he chooses to sit out instead of honouring his contract, wouldn't it be sitting out for 3 years? That is how long his contract with Dragons was for.

If he was to sit out for 2012, all that means is his contract with Tigers is completed by then. Not his Dragons contract.

I think it's all talk. He will play for someone.

Sonny bill has had to sit out of Nrl but that is not due to the contract to play for the dogs but due to a term in his agreement to get out his contract. As I understand it, the dogs said we will let you out of your long contract if you pay us 700k and agree not to play Nrl for any club until 2013.

Re Tim i am not sure how 12 would be different to the following 2 years. But as Tim is not going to be doing nothing for three years I think the length of the contract could be used by st George to argue for more compensation than just a 1 year deal

 

[R2Coupe]

Andrew

The fact he is under contract with the Tigers for 2012 and Humphreys has stated he was not released, how does the law view Doust's actions in signing him to a 3 year contract? cheers.

 

[Fordy20]

Firstly, because as has been said on here over and over Tim Moltzen was told to negotiate another deal next year by humpty.

Abject lie. He was told to look elsewhere, in much the same vein that Heighington, Ryan and Fulton were, all who are still with the club.

Moltzen did not want to test his worth, or get out of his deal. He was basically set up for auction by the Tigers. The fact is he found another club.

To say he was basically set up for auction by the Tigers is emotive bullshit, unless you are saying all players when offered the opportunity to sound out interest from other clubs are basically setup for auction. Histronics aside, both Gibbs and Fifita probably didn't want to leave either, however both found other clubs and negotiated releases and signed with their new club.

Humpty then decided to get pissy about the timing and in his first and ONLY statement on the matter at that time, humpty said he had not been formally released. This is where the matter should have been resolved.

I'm not sure why you'd imply that Humphreys should have been providing running commentary on contract negotiations that he wasn't involved in, but if I was CEO I'd be pretty pissed off too if a rival CEO made a media release that they had signed a player contracted to my club who hadn't been released. All that aside, I agree that's where the matter should have been resolved.

Doust was assured by Tauber (when Doust asked him about the release at the time) and was told by Tauber it would be taken care of. What more was Doust to do? From there, surely it was Humpty and Taubers job to sought out the deal.

Humphreys had no responsibility to organise a release for a player he had under contract. This proposition that Doust is some innocent, trusting, child-like figure who was ruthlessly exploited by Humphreys and continually mislead by Tauber is laughable. I can accept that Doust was fooled once by Tauber when Moltzen put pen to paper and signed with the Dragons despite not having a release, but after Humphreys announced that there was no formal release you can't tell me that Doust had no responsibility to his club to do some double checking or at least pick up the phone and talk to Humphreys.

For ay number of reasons why, the deal wasn't sought out obviously. Why was this perhaps? Did humpty inform Tauber that he wouldn't be released? Did he mention the possibility that WT would take a wait and see approach? It appears not, as in the following months there was an email exchange with Tauber asking US if the release had come through, if not he would chase it up for them. Does this not strike you as dodgy?

I haven't heard about the email exchange you're referring to, I don't know when it occurred so I can't comment on it whether it was dodgy or not. As to why a release wasn't nutted out, it seems fairly obvious. The Tigers have a contract with a player, the Dragons announce that they've signed the player despite this player not being released, so clearly the Tigers were expecting the Dragons to approach them regarding the release. This didn't happen so there was no deal.

If Humpty and Tauber had done their job in the first place we wouldt be here right now. Why would Doust keep asking about something that had 99% of the time been a formality for the entire competition up until now?

Keep asking? You make it sound like Doust actually approached the Tigers after discovering that Moltzen wasn't released. He flat out refused to do anything. This is what I take issue with. Doust says he's signed a player who didn't have a release and he just expects the player to be handed over. Humphreys is spot on when he labelled this arrogance.

And we can more than assume WT dont give a shit about Moltzen when they asked Benji's best mate to look elsewhere. WT look after themselves and took the Godfather approach, "nothing personal, just business". That's fine by me, i have no problem with them getting the best deal for themselves. i do have a problem with them and Tauber coming out and saying "oh please feel sorry for Tim, he never wanted to go, dont make him"...that ain't good business, its childish and desperate in a pathetic attempt to shroud it as a goodwill gesture.

A goodwill gesture would have been releasing Moltzen to the Dragons without any further discussions. To just expect this to occur is arrogance. The bottom line is, if Tauber had secured a formal release prior to Doust announcing the signing, then this wouldn't have happened. I can accept that the Dragons had negotiated in good faith, but they were alerted immediately after Doust's announcement that Moltzen had not been granted a formal release. They had months in which they could have discussions with the Tigers and they chose to do nothing. Humphreys was under no obligation to take any action other than what he did.

I fully expect for Moltzen to play for the Dragons next year, with the Dragons paying the Tigers a transfer fee to release him. I can't see any other logical end to this, regardless of Moltzen's dummy spit about sitting on the sidelines.

 

[andrew9148]

I fully expect for Moltzen to play for the Dragons next year, with the Dragons paying the Tigers a transfer fee to release him. I can't see any other logical end to this, regardless of Moltzen's dummy spit about sitting on the sidelines.

Interesting conclusion.

Cant see it happening.

1) Tim doesnt want St George

2) St George I dont think want a player who is reluctant. I am certain they will not be paying more a reluctant player which is what a transfer fee would entail.

Everyone is happy if St George receive some sort of compensation and Tim players at the Tigers. That is what will happen.

 

[andrew9148]

Andrew

The fact he is under contract with the Tigers for 2012 and Humphreys has stated he was not released, how does the law view Doust's actions in signing him to a 3 year contract? cheers.

I could give you a very long answer.

But in a sentence, I cant see any issue in him doing that, assuming he had authority from St George to enter into a contract.

 

[saints4ever]

Fordy 20, did at any time Ryan, heighington etc find a deal with another club? No. Perhaps they didnt need to seeing as though Moltzen did. You have admitted they advised moltzen to look elsewhere. He found another club. What possible reason could the tigers have for not releasing him? As I have said, it is the player manager who is responsible for getting the best deal for his client. It is dousts job to agree to terms and sign the player. It was taubers job to go back to the tigers and say Tim has got a contract, what do we have to do to get a release? Whether this happens before or after he signs is quite frankly irrelevant. Dousts job was done, he was assured tauber would take care of the release, and not hearing another word about it until a month ago, why would he check?

Did gibbs and fifitas form skyrocket at the back end of the year? Nope. They are both forwards, who did you sign? A forward. Moltzen is a back, who do you look like sacking? A back.

Bullshit to say he was put up for auction? You wanted to sign Blair, how many players did you lose? You eeded room in the cap, what the hell would you call it?

Mate we could go on and on about this. We are not going to agree. You said your bottom line, heres mine. I could accept everything you have said re humpty having no obligation etc, if the tigers wernt the ones to start this whole thing by asking moltzen to look around. Why would we sign a player we wernt sure was available? Because we were told thus. If moltzen had wanted out of his deal and approached us, then absolutely we would have total responsibility to make sure everything was kosher. If a manager comes to you and says my client has been told to look elsewhere what have you got to offer, why would anyone second guess that a release was not a mere formality? Check the websites, check your own coach and star players comments on the matter. They all knew he was gone and said so. Come on. Think about it, the timing of lui's indiscretion and this sham?

If you honestly believe the Dragons would actually pay the tigers a transfer fee for the Tim tam you are dreaming. After all this carry on it has made everyone look like fools and is now absolutely laughable. The logical outcome is tigers keep him and Dragons get compo for being dicked around deliberately and loss of a player on our roster

 

[R2Coupe]

Andrew

The fact he is under contract with the Tigers for 2012 and Humphreys has stated he was not released, how does the law view Doust's actions in signing him to a 3 year contract? cheers.

Thanks.

 

[Dragons01]

We are going over and over the same ground. Moltzen was told to look elsewhere. Everyone at the Tigers it seems except Humphreys knew he was going. Tim Sheens stated as much in his press conference on the Friday night 'everyone knew about Tim and his PLANNED departure'. The only thing Moltzen did not have was the 'deed of release' and this is very rarely obtained before a player signs with a new club because it protects the player. Are we seriously expected to believe that Tim Moltzen who from all reports never wanted to leave the Tigers just went out with his manager in search of a new club? If as a player you love the club you play with and there has been no indication from management or the coach that you are not wanted in 2012, why on earth would you go and look for a new club?

Example - The Tigers tell Moltzen to look around - he goes to Saints who say 'yep we will sign you'. Moltzen then goes back to the Tigers who give him the 'deed of release' so the Tigers have no more responsibility for Moltzen in 2012. When Moltzen goes back to Saints with his deed of release Saints go sorry we are now purchasing another player and won't be signing you. Moltzen suddenly has not contract with Saints or the Tigers and no other club. That is why the 'deed of release' is in place to protect the player. It is just a formality a player told to look around signs with a new club and then gets the official deed of release. This has been the practice in the NRL for many years and the only reason it is an issue now is because Humphreys has gone back on his word(even from a few weeks ago) and he wants to cover his butt in case Lui is sacked.

 

[hybrid_tiger]

f**king boring. Can't believe this hasn't been resolved yet.

 

[Joe's Magpies]

f**king boring. Can't believe this hasn't been resolved yet.

I know Hybrid. It's getting boring. Just make a decision and move on.

 

[saints4ever]

f**king boring. Can't believe this hasn't been resolved yet.

It's in Schuberts hands, did we expect any different? He doesn't have someone over his shoulder telling him what to do

 

[hybrid_tiger]

It's in Schuberts hands, did we expect any different? He doesn't have someone over his shoulder telling him what to do

Considering it's the off season and he doesn't have much else to do I'm surprised it's taken so long.

Anyway, it's just been announced that the Dragons are not seeking to register him for 2012 so he'll be playing for us. I'm very disappointed.

 

[hybrid_tiger]

And Moltzen also has a dodgy shoulder that requires surgery, f**king great:

Dragons CEO Peter Doust has issued the following regarding the decision on the matter.

“When Tim was told by the Wests Tigers mid-year that he could negotiate with other clubs beyond the 2011 season, Tim and his Manager Martin Tauber were very positive about a move to the Dragons and the multiple conversations and meetings supported their commitments arising from the contract they signed,” said Doust.

“The Club therefore made certain decisions about its roster for 2012, and beyond, around such commitments and there is no doubt that the actions of Tim Moltzen, Martin Tauber and the Wests Tigers have negatively impacted upon our recruitment process and our roster for 2012.

“Over the past week I met with Tim Moltzen and Wests Tigers CEO Stephen Humphreys to discuss this situation, believing the Club should not finalise its position until it had spoken “face to face”.

“This meeting confirmed that Tim Moltzen wanted to take advantage of the changed circumstances, presented by Wests Tigers and was not going to honour any of his previous commitments.

“At the same meeting, Tim also revealed that he has been carrying a shoulder problem for most of the 2011 season which he had yet to have addressed, medically.

“He in fact told me that his surgeon had advised that very morning that his shoulder would require six months of rehabilitation.

“The shoulder injury was something that Tim or his Manager had not previously disclosed and something that would have influenced the Club’s decision in July.

“Notwithstanding this decision, the Club will not be rushing into signing a replacement Player, even though Wests Tigers offered to subsidise a Player transfer.”

http://www.dragons.com.au/default.a...44891&title=dragons-reach-decision-on-moltzen

 

[Dragons01]

Notwithstanding this decision, the Club will not be rushing into signing a replacement Player, even though Wests Tigers offered to subsidise a Player transfer.”

Why would the West Tigers(Humphreys) offer to subsidise a player for Moltzen if they had not done anything wrong?

 

[dragon_around]

Everything went better than expected.

 

[innsaneink]

Notwithstanding this decision, the Club will not be rushing into signing a replacement Player, even though Wests Tigers offered to subsidise a Player transfer.”

Why would the West Tigers(Humphreys) offer to subsidise a player for Moltzen if they had not done anything wrong?

Goodwill, integrity, helping a fellow NRL club in your time of need etc etc

 

[Dragons01]

Goodwill, integrity, helping a fellow NRL club in your time of need etc etc

You are very funny - yes because there has been lots of goodwill shown already. I think more likely that subsidising a player might have turned out to be a bit cheaper than legal compensation.

Either way hope Tauber gets dragged over the coals, his name is now mud. As for Moltzen if what he has said is true and he will be out for the next 6 months(can we even believe him) then that guy is a real piece of work. The Tigers surely can't be that desperate for a replacement for Lui.

 

[Guvner]

Goodwill, integrity, helping a fellow NRL club in your time of need etc etc

Thats a VERY long bow.