Moving forward

[Vic Mackey]

the wider league community meaning fans of other clubs Vic, I agree with that statement re Farah not Marshall.

And if that's a fan base.

What cannot be taken away from Farah is the fact people in coaching and selection positions (and I'd say they could know, should know and do know more about the game than us poor Tiger supporters) saw fit to select Farah in:
2006 - City Origin & Prime Ministers X1
2007 - City Origin, Dally M Hooker of Year (1 point behind JT in final count)
2009 - City Origin, SOO, Prime Ministers X1 & Australia 4 Nations squad
2010 - City Origin & Australia 4 Nations squad, Dally M Hooker of Year (1 point behind Carney in final count
2011 - 4 Nations squad (withdrew)
2012 - City Origin, SOO
2013 - City Origin, SOO, Prime Ministers X1 & Australia World Cup squad
2014 - SOO, Prime Ministers X1 & Australia 4 Nations squad
2015 - SOO
2016 - SOO

But, it's time to retire him come season end and I hope Liddle comes good.

Looking at his playing stats, I see that in his 2nd year in 2004, he only played 3 games due to a knee reconstruction, hopefully all is not lost with Liddle

Mate I’m not saying Farah sucks. The guys been a tremendous player for a long time. He performed well at Origin level for a number of years and if he wasn’t playing at the same time as the greatest 9 the games seem may have played 15 Tests for Australia.

I’m saying a lot of Wests fans seem to believe he belongs in the same breath as Johns, Thurston, Smith, Slater, Lockyers etc of this generation when no one outside of the clubs fan base would.

Benji will be remembered a lot more fondly as he was truly unique and between 2010-11 was the best player in the world however even he hasn’t been a top line play maker for the best part of 7 years.

If these guys were as good as we’re being made believe they would have got us to more then 3 in 13 finals. Great play makers can do that, especially if there are two of them in the same team. Have you seen some of the absolute garbage that’s made the 8 over the years?

 

[Tiger05]

If these guys were as good as we’re being made believe they would have got us to more then 3 in 13 finals. Great play makers can do that, especially if there are two of them in the same team. Have you seen some of the absolute garbage that’s made the 8 over the years?

At the end of the day results matter and your top value players are the ones who have to deliver.

 

[gordsy]

I didn't state this. They were great players but we couldn't field a team capable of winning post 05. I think our ability to put quality players around Benji and Robbie was a big reason for the lack of performing to the highest level. I think we struggled to do that because these guys were overpaid.

I guess it comes down to stating were we successful or not. If we were then there is no argument. If not then the you have to look at how players are performing. If you can't attract a quality team and are paying overs for two stars that is your issue.

To say the contracts for Farrah and Marshall only is the reason why we sucked for so long is bullshit. We signed plenty of geniuss for big money.
Take a look at this list for starters

Shannon McDonnell
Daniel Fitzhenry
Jason Moodie
John Morris
Ryan O'Hara
Bronson Harrison {useless when played as a prop}
Ben Te'o
Daine Laurie
Ryan Tandy
Moltzen

 

[Tiger05]

To say the contracts for Farrah and Marshall only is the reason why we sucked for so long is bullshit. We signed plenty of geniuss for big money.
Take a look at this list for starters

Shannon McDonnell
Daniel Fitzhenry
Jason Moodie
John Morris
Ryan O'Hara
Bronson Harrison {useless when played as a prop}
Ben Te'o
Daine Laurie
Ryan Tandy
Moltzen

Here is the thing we don't know how much these guys were on. I really doubt we signed any of those players for big money. I bet our marquee players took up a massive chunk of our salary cap.

Listing those players down as being on big dollars is bullshit. The much more likely scenario is that Robbie and Benji were overpaid.

 

[Old Time Tiger]

Sorry Vic, I miss took what you were saying re Farah. I agree with what you said about the fan base, I don't know if people think or have thought of him as a grub or it's his looks, his background but I have worked with plenty of people who just can't stand him and yet when he came back and played in that SOO series NSW won, the same people were saying how great he was.

The Gordon Tallis issue when he revealed what Farah said about Potter certainly didn't help his standing in the wider fan base though.

 

[Old Time Tiger]

Shannon McDonnell
Daniel Fitzhenry
Jason Moodie
John Morris
Ryan O'Hara
Bronson Harrison {useless when played as a prop}
Ben Te'o
Daine Laurie
Ryan Tandy
Moltzen

gordsy, how could we forget Jason Cayless !!!

Matt Utai, Ray Cashmere & Joel Reddy.

Then we had guys who promised so much in the áge' teams like Matt Groat who was thrown in the deep end when too young, whatever happened to him?

 

[stryker]

Great players take ordinary players and make them better ones. Newcastle were Premiership Contenders for a decade, Andrew Johns missed a season and they got the wooden spoon, next year they were 4th again.

Our fan base has extensively over rated Farah and Marshall. They aren’t thought of as highly by the wider league community as some would have you think.

Lol I was going to write a lengthy reply but why bother....
What you wrote is fkn bullshit

 

[stryker]

Here is the thing we don't know how much these guys were on. I really doubt we signed any of those players for big money. I bet our marquee players took up a massive chunk of our salary cap.

Listing those players down as being on big dollars is bullshit. The much more likely scenario is that Robbie and Benji were overpaid.

You are only guessing. These blokes were never on DCE money ....ever. They were paid well and paid fairly. As others have pointed out to you numerous times now, we overrated a whole group of guys who proved to be reliable 7/10 players at best. We were starting a dynasty remember?
Your mate Brooks was paid rep money for years when his results were reserve grade standard. Woods earned huge dough for never taking the first hit up from a kickoff and jogging it up when he did have a go. Guys like Lawrence spend ridiculous amounts of time sidelined. Every year we buy "star" recruits who cant get on the feild...I could go on but I know you arent listening.

Robbie and Benji are not top escheleon like those QLDers mentioned by Vic. I have never seen anyone state that. They are certainly the best to have pulled on Wests Tigers jerseys though. Its up to your interpretation of how that makes the club look.

 

[Tiger05]

You are only guessing. These blokes were never on DCE money ....ever. They were paid well and paid fairly. As others have pointed out to you numerous times now, we overrated a whole group of guys who proved to be reliable 7/10 players at best. We were starting a dynasty remember?
Your mate Brooks was paid rep money for years when his results were reserve grade standard. Woods earned huge dough for never taking the first hit up from a kickoff and jogging it up when he did have a go. Guys like Lawrence spend ridiculous amounts of time sidelined. Every year we buy "star" recruits who cant get on the feild...I could go on but I know you arent listening.

Robbie and Benji are not top escheleon like those QLDers mentioned by Vic. I have never seen anyone state that. They are certainly the best to have pulled on Wests Tigers jerseys though. Its up to your interpretation of how that makes the club look.

I'm only guessing but let's be honest I'm probably right. You are probably wrong as well in stating that they were paid well and fairly. The likelihood is that they were overpaid for what they delivered because we have results to back up this argument. If not we would have be able to get other players. The list of those overpaid players was hilarious.

Brooks and Woods are good examples of players that were overpaid and we still have that today in Reynolds and Packer and potentially Mbye.

I get that recruitment and retention were the problems. This comes down to managing the salary cap and if you are overpaying guys who aren't winning you games that is where the problem likes. The highest paid players typically are the guys who you look to in these situations.

 

[super_coach]

They were paid what the market valued them at. Benji always got overs based on his popularity right across the NRL and Farah got overs because he has a competitive streak like no other footballer in our club and set the bench mark for the young kids to follow.

Recruitment of both players and coaches has been our downfall in recent times. We needed a mix of quality and young very good athletic players, but we targeted busted older players.

Anyway under Madge you really feel a change for the better is gaining momentum

 

[Front-Rower]

Robbie and Benji are not top escheleon like those QLDers mentioned by Vic. I have never seen anyone state that.

No, never. Benji won a golden boot and Farah was compared to Smith for a long time.

 

[Front-Rower]

Lol I was going to write a lengthy reply but why bother....
What you wrote is fkn bullshit

Why is it bullshit? It’s so horribly close to the truth it’s not funny

 

[Perth Tiger]

Here is the thing we don't know how much these guys were on. I really doubt we signed any of those players for big money. I bet our marquee players took up a massive chunk of our salary cap.

Listing those players down as being on big dollars is bullshit. The much more likely scenario is that Robbie and Benji were overpaid.

How can you say you don't know what those players were on but then confidently state Benji and Farah were overpaid.

How do you know what their cap value was compared to any third party deals or long service payments where included.

You always mention Farah being overpaid but for the millionth time his contract was backended. He took less money at the request of the club and made it back in the last year or 2 of his contract. What is your excuse for the first few years of his contract when he was UNDERPAID!

 

[Vic Mackey]

Why is it bullshit? It’s so horribly close to the truth it’s not funny

Pretty sure this is the guy who said Farah outplayed Smith last week. Even a slight criticism of Robbie will trigger him.

 

[Tiger05]

How can you say you don't know what those players were on but then confidently state Benji and Farah were overpaid.

How do you know what their cap value was compared to any third party deals or long service payments where included.

You always mention Farah being overpaid but for the millionth time his contract was backended. He took less money at the request of the club and made it back in the last year or 2 of his contract. What is your excuse for the first few years of his contract when he was UNDERPAID!

Basically every player is underpaid when they start. Honestly the counter arguments against my opinion look pretty weak.

It's cool to disagree and maybe it's time to drop it.

 

[Perth Tiger]

Basically every player is underpaid when they start. Honestly the counter arguments against my opinion look pretty weak.

It's cool to disagree and maybe it's time to drop it.

Do you even understand what a backended contract is?

I'll agree to drop it if you end the Farah and Benji overpaid posts in every thread!

 

[Front-Rower]

Farah and Marshall weren’t over paid in the 00’s. At the time, they were a part of a team that had won a premiership and were regarded as players in the top echelons of their positions.

However, once we got knocked out in 2012 that is when the scrutiny should have begun. We were premiership favourites after impressive finals performances (debatable due to the ways we lost, though we did get to where we got to) the previous two years and, in hindsight, it was probably time.

 

[Tiger05]

Do you even understand what a backended contract is?

I'll agree to drop it if you end the Farah and Benji overpaid posts in every thread!

Geez you guys are easily triggered. I'm more than willing to drop the topic. I understand what a backended contract is. It means we couldn't pay the guy his expected wage within the salary cap and so we backended it. We overpaid the guy for what he delivered. The proof is in the team's poor performance over a number of years.

 

[super_coach]

Some are saying Farah and Marshall were over paid...let me tell you all our players than and now are over paid. It all comes with the turf of being a club low on success and probably not being located in a desirable location. We have to pay overs and there are a few other clubs in the same boat. A few years of success can change that

 

[Das Hassler]

We overpaid the guy for what he delivered. The proof is in the team's poor performance over a number of years

So he was the team?.....he was the entire 30 man squad?
If not for one Hyno closing minutes brainfade while technically in possession and a barge over last minute warriors try we would have been in 3 grand finals and perhaps won all three. Farah and Marshall had zero...nothing...zilch to do with those mistakes but a lot to do with us getting so close ...if we had won 3 would you be complaining they were underpaid as they were solelyresponsible for our ( at our fingertips) fantastic success?
05......i can easily find it if you want but last few rounds of last season Thompson ..who you very fairly endorse right now had one 1 ( one ) bad i.e. errored game after a first season of absolute personal success..straight after that game you wrote...."Thompson is a worry and we will need to figure what to do with him"...i remember it well because i had to re read it a few times to believe it....you have your face too close to the graph....you blow so much with the wind on week to week results. Also stop back engineering history...the coaches and club are limited ( as against supporters) to paying on their best educated assessment ( aka guess) of how a player may go in the future....how many were clamering to sign Ash Taylor at big money?....why didnt 14 other clubs sign cheap as chips Matterson as dud Cleary did ?? it goes on and on....why didn't i OR ANYONE ELSE buy an immaculate GTHO PH 3 with 6k on the clock in '73 after the salesman called me at 9pm with a LOWERED price of $6,200.....he had to move it but no takers!....now worth over 1 mill....hindsight is a wonderful thing but ultimately totally pointless as an argument on judgement calls.