Moving forward

[The Charlatan]

Woah woah woah.
Your second sentence is a distortion of the truth. In fact it is bullshit.
Your last sentence is naive.
The kid has shown very little worth a lengthy contract. 2 years max for mine and if he is injured again goneskis.

Agree 100%. Sick of waiting on players to come good. It has never paid off for us. I would be signing a first grade hooker off contract irrespective of whether Liddle is offered a contract or not. He will not play 1,920 first grade minutes a season.

 

[The Charlatan]

Stryker - I agree that my viewpoint is simplistic but there is some truth in it. Those premiership opportunities were lost and Benji and Robbie didn't perform as well as they could have. It's tough though to blame those lost opportunities on just those two. They were our marquee players though.

I also agree that those two are playing well now. I'd still have Liddle getting more game time. Robbie looked shot at the end of the game last week.

We blew the 07-09 years where Farah played his best footy for us. He was in the form of his career and the guys around him could not lift. The last seven years have been disappointing, but not nearly as disappointing as the immediate post premiership years. Not replacing Prince was criminal.

 

[Tiger05]

We blew the 07-09 years where Farah played his best footy for us. He was in the form of his career and the guys around him could not lift. The last seven years have been disappointing, but not nearly as disappointing as the immediate post premiership years. Not replacing Prince was criminal.

Why were the other players not up to it ?

 

[The Charlatan]

Why were the other players not up to it ?

A lot of the players around then were just honest toilers and like now were prone to dropping games they should have won.

Farah was in career best form in those years, he carried us. And while Benji was still capable of being his spectacular self he was his usual rocks and diamonds self.

 

[Tiger05]

A lot of the players around then were just honest toilers and like now were prone to dropping games they should have won.

Farah was in career best form in those years, he carried us. And while Benji was still capable of being his spectacular self he was his usual rocks and diamonds self.

My take on this is that overpaid Robbie and Benji and that is why we couldn't get other players good enough around them.

It's interesting that Benji is now less rocks and diamonds. He seems much more consistent to me but less flashy.

I think Robbie has also always had hog plays in him that kill us. I remember Robbie hogging in a critical game and getting caught at dummy half when he had Benji and a set backline outside of him that looked certain to score.

It's over now. I wish the club would learn that managing the cap is so important especially when we don't have the same ability to rort the cap as some other teams.

 

[The Charlatan]

My take on this is that overpaid Robbie and Benji and that is why we couldn't get other players good enough around them.

It's interesting that Benji is now less rocks and diamonds. He seems much more consistent to me but less flashy.

I think Robbie has also always had hog plays in him that kill us. I remember Robbie hogging in a critical game and getting caught at dummy half when he had Benji and a set backline outside of him that looked certain to score.

It's over now. I wish the club would learn that managing the cap is so important especially when we don't have the same ability to rort the cap as some other teams.

They won a premiership, their value was always going up. Despite being at a club that experiences fleeting success, they were constantly performing well above that of the rest of the team. Farah was off the chain between 07-11. Benji was still spinning his magic.

In reference to Farah being a hog, yeah he is, but he is because he's a player that will do more the more often he gets his hands on the ball. For every play he murdered there's one he's set up a movement or scored a try. Good spine players are more effective the more they see the ball.

If you cannot understand why they would be valued higher than their team mates then I can't help you.

 

[Perth Tiger]

Why were the other players not up to it ?

John Morris at half back for one.

We overspent on the 4 big signings before we even won 05 which crippled us way more than Farah and Benji did. O'hara, Lolesi (sp) and Harris were reserve graders on huge bucks and Pillow Galloway was ok for a time but on huge money.

Also all of our Juniors from the GF cashed in and re-signed on increased contracts. Why the focus on Benji and Farah who were getting paid rep money but at least were at rep standard compared to Fulton, Heigno, Gibbs, Collis etc who never progress to the standard everyone thought that might of.

 

[Magpies Forever]

I think the statement that our recruitment and retention has been totally inept pretty well since 2006 is true. That along with a coach in Sheens, who was good, became stale in both his team management and tactics, caused much of the rot. Probably should put the coach issue above recruitment and retention as they do try to buy players that the coach wants. Also, we have had the chronic mismanagement from successive boards and CEO's thankfully / hopefully rectified by Go and Pascoe.

Does anybody wonder the lack of success since 05? Any one of those issues would cripple a team, all in the mix, God help us.

 

[Tiger05]

If you cannot understand why they would be valued higher than their team mates then I can't help you.

I didn't state this. They were great players but we couldn't field a team capable of winning post 05. I think our ability to put quality players around Benji and Robbie was a big reason for the lack of performing to the highest level. I think we struggled to do that because these guys were overpaid.

I guess it comes down to stating were we successful or not. If we were then there is no argument. If not then the you have to look at how players are performing. If you can't attract a quality team and are paying overs for two stars that is your issue.

 

[Tiger05]

John Morris at half back for one.

We overspent on the 4 big signings before we even won 05 which crippled us way more than Farah and Benji did. O'hara, Lolesi (sp) and Harris were reserve graders on huge bucks and Pillow Galloway was ok for a time but on huge money.

Also all of our Juniors from the GF cashed in and re-signed on increased contracts. Why the focus on Benji and Farah who were getting paid rep money but at least were at rep standard compared to Fulton, Heigno, Gibbs, Collis etc who never progress to the standard everyone thought that might of.

This is a good point as well.

 

[Perth Tiger]

I didn't state this. They were great players but we couldn't field a team capable of winning post 05. I think our ability to put quality players around Benji and Robbie was a big reason for the lack of performing to the highest level. I think we struggled to do that because these guys were overpaid.
.

At the risk of labouring a point, Benji's and Farah's salary didn't stop us putting quality players around then. Everyone in those teams was getting paid good money. At certain points players like Fulton, Gibbs, Heigno, O'hara, Harris, Galloway, Lawerance, Tquiri, Halatau, Collis, Moltzen, Harrison, Sironen among other were getting paid rep level salaries based on potential. If we had used that money to recruit actual rep players and paid these guys based on output, rather than potential, we would of gone better.

It is unfair to blame it on Benji and Farah when it was recruitment and coaching decisions that killed those years.

 

[Vic Mackey]

Great players take ordinary players and make them better ones. Newcastle were Premiership Contenders for a decade, Andrew Johns missed a season and they got the wooden spoon, next year they were 4th again.

Our fan base has extensively over rated Farah and Marshall. They aren’t thought of as highly by the wider league community as some would have you think.

 

[The unknown]

Our biggest down fall post 2005 was the way the game was played ie: the wrestle

we had the smallest team in the comp but also had the ability to blow a team off the park in 15 mins, and to score from anywhere on the field. As soon as the game changed (for the worst unfortunately) we never had the size to go toe to toe with other forward packs

That and I'm pretty sure our halves were injury plaqued almost all of 06-08

 

[The unknown]

Great players take ordinary players and make them better ones. Newcastle were Premiership Contenders for a decade, Andrew Johns missed a season and they got the wooden spoon, next year they were 4th again.

Our fan base has extensively over rated Farah and Marshall. They aren’t thought of as highly by the wider league community as some would have you think.

I'd say Marshall would be thought of pretty highly for obvious reasons but it'd be pretty hard to find a non tigers supporter that thinks the world of Farah

 

[simmo05]

Agree 100%. Sick of waiting on players to come good. It has never paid off for us. I would be signing a first grade hooker off contract irrespective of whether Liddle is offered a contract or not. He will not play 1,920 first grade minutes a season.

Same was said about benji

 

[The Charlatan]

Same was said about benji

Except Benji had won a comp by the end of his third season. And he was a prodigious talent.

 

[simmo05]

Except Benji had won a comp by the end of his third season. And he was a prodigious talent.

And not one since. Liddle has shown a bit of talent too.....

Imagine he goes to melbourne to replace smiff after we flick him, and becomes a 10 year origin player. I would be pissing blood. How many champion players do we have to let go before we learn

 

[Front-Rower]

Great players take ordinary players and make them better ones. Newcastle were Premiership Contenders for a decade, Andrew Johns missed a season and they got the wooden spoon, next year they were 4th again.

Our fan base has extensively over rated Farah and Marshall. They aren’t thought of as highly by the wider league community as some would have you think.

Correct on both points.

Furthermore, Saints supporters I know couldn’t believe they signed him nor could wait until they offloaded him.

In Benji’s defence though he was never going to be an organiser. His strengthen lied in his running game, he needed space to be created for him by a decent to good halfback.

 

[Front-Rower]

And not one since. Liddle has shown a bit of talent too.....

Imagine he goes to melbourne to replace smiff after we flick him, and becomes a 10 year origin player. I would be pissing blood. How many champion players do we have to let go before we learn

Liddle is the future for our club. He has pace and vision out of dummy half. He’s shown more than enough in the 1st grade games he has played for us to persist with him, for now.

 

[Old Time Tiger]

Our fan base has extensively over rated Farah and Marshall. They aren’t thought of as highly by the wider league community as some would have you think.

the wider league community meaning fans of other clubs Vic, I agree with that statement re Farah not Marshall.

And if that's a fan base.

What cannot be taken away from Farah is the fact people in coaching and selection positions (and I'd say they could know, should know and do know more about the game than us poor Tiger supporters) saw fit to select Farah in:
2006 - City Origin & Prime Ministers X1
2007 - City Origin, Dally M Hooker of Year (1 point behind JT in final count)
2009 - City Origin, SOO, Prime Ministers X1 & Australia 4 Nations squad
2010 - City Origin & Australia 4 Nations squad, Dally M Hooker of Year (1 point behind Carney in final count
2011 - 4 Nations squad (withdrew)
2012 - City Origin, SOO
2013 - City Origin, SOO, Prime Ministers X1 & Australia World Cup squad
2014 - SOO, Prime Ministers X1 & Australia 4 Nations squad
2015 - SOO
2016 - SOO

But, it's time to retire him come season end and I hope Liddle comes good.

Looking at his playing stats, I see that in his 2nd year in 2004, he only played 3 games due to a knee reconstruction, hopefully all is not lost with Liddle