New Zealand 2 will deal a massive blow to NZ rugby

[Vibing]

No Sky money, No bids, no momentum. Its a dead duck. There currently is more chance of no NZ team then two in the NRL.

hahahaha
no NZ team ?

in case you hadn't noticed you complete monocle wearing moron

the one there atm is the premier/numb 1 domestic club team of any sport in the country
feeding off the 18 mill PA Aus ( 19.5 Mill NZ) $$ grant each year
crowds bigger then any other sport

they aint going anywhere & will be soon joined by NZ2
who'll become the Numb 2 domestic team in the land .... poor ol toffball

huzzaahhhh

 

[Vibing]

Confusing argument.

Enforcing a contract that in turn removes them from the competition. The cause of the decision doesn’t change the result.

Also, don’t play semantics; or at least play it with somebody stupider. Unlikely is a synonym of remote and a pretty strong one at that (and you know it)

Btw semantics I know but this is what is confusing with your argument: essentially you are arguing in one part that is far from remote (far from unlikely) but then later on suggest that removing the Warriors is unlikely. So which one is it? Unlikely or likely? Remote or not? You seem to be not agreeing me in one sense and later on do agree with me.

All in all, I would have thought that it is pretty simple to simply acknowledge that it would be (strongly) unlikely that the NRL removes any side. They have been quoted on numerous occasions that it is their position to not remove any sides (talk of permanent licences would suggest they are not keen on not removing any side) and they have bailed out numerous sides post Super League (so their actions match their rhetoric)

Whether you like it or not, the Warriors will be part of this competition, unless something extraordinary happens.

Hes a complete f**kstick , I wouldn't bother with him

 

[Perth Red]

Vodafone NZ and Vodafone Australia had no connection other than the name. The enforced it anyway. Unless you think Australians are so stupid they cant tell the difference between the two?



somebody "stupider"?? (congrats on the irony)... A synonym or not, the two have vastly different meanings. other synonyms are
improbable, implausible, doubtful, dubious, far-fetched, fain. but the waitings are vastly different e.g. "It is unlikely to rain today" vs " there is a remote chance of being hit by a meteor."

When a simple contract enforcement can bring down a club, that makes them folding far from remote. That the NRL has previously enforced the clause before backing down makes that happening again far from remote. If it remains in their best interests to keep The Warriors involved, and Telstra dont object, it makes it happen unlikely. You notice the difference between the two?

On the other hand, SKY is tapped out and wont fund a new team. The rights will revert back to historic norms. Aussie TV gets next to nothing from another NZ team while the opposite is true about new Aussie teams. There are no bids coming out of NZ. Corporate sponsorship has tried up, and there doesn't appear to be an Angel investor willing to put up the capital. This makes the chances of NZ2 "remote"...

Remote > Unlikely... Get it now.?There is more of a chance of there being Zero NRL teams in NZ then there is two or more.

The avg person watching NRL on tv and seeing Vodaphone plastered across the Warriors jersey isnt sub consciously differentiating the advertising messaging of if it only relates to Vodaphone NZ lol
And despite the previous obvious competition for Telstra they decided not to enforce the rule anyway. They certainly wont now it isnt actually advertising anything that's a competitor to Telstra. You're really clutching at straws re this argument!

NZ2 I agree is long odds.
No value to Australian TV, no value to NRL Australian corporate advertising and SkyNZ wont be paying more. Add in no bid, no obvious location and ARLC general disinterest in NZ beyond being a pool for talent to bring over to Australian clubs and the signs are NZ2 is highly unlikely for the foreseeable future.

 

[Te Kaha]

The avg person watching NRL on tv and seeing Vodaphone plastered across the Warriors jersey isnt sub consciously differentiating the advertising messaging of if it only relates to Vodaphone NZ lol
And despite the previous obvious competition for Telstra they decided not to enforce the rule anyway. They certainly wont now it isnt actually advertising anything that's a competitor to Telstra. You're really clutching at straws re this argument!

So you do think Australians are stupid... fair enough then. And since you also don't get it, my argument isn't that it's going to happen, merely that it has more chance of happening then NZ2 does.

NZ2 I agree is long odds.
No value to Australian TV, no value to NRL Australian corporate advertising and SkyNZ wont be paying more. Add in no bid, no obvious location and ARLC general disinterest in NZ beyond being a pool for talent to bring over to Australian clubs and the signs are NZ2 is highly unlikely for the foreseeable future.

Its very "long odds"... as i said, there is more chance of there being Zero NRL teams in NZ then there is two or three. Not that there will be zero NRL teams here, merely a greater chance of zero than two or more.

 

[Captain Apollo]

The Te Whare effect: Why New Zealand should be focus of NRL expansion

New Dolphins cult sensation Valynce Te Whare is both the symptom and the solution to the NRL’s Beige Age where talent has been spread thin across the league.

www.smh.com.au

 

[Matua]

The Te Whare effect: Why New Zealand should be focus of NRL expansion

New Dolphins cult sensation Valynce Te Whare is both the symptom and the solution to the NRL’s Beige Age where talent has been spread thin across the league.

www.smh.com.au

Paywalled.

 

[Vibing]

Paywalled.

its a ready made nursery

lets go get it .....

 

[Colk]

Vodafone NZ and Vodafone Australia had no connection other than the name. The enforced it anyway. Unless you think Australians are so stupid they cant tell the difference between the two?



somebody "stupider"?? (congrats on the irony)... A synonym or not, the two have vastly different meanings. other synonyms are
improbable, implausible, doubtful, dubious, far-fetched, fain. but the waitings are vastly different e.g. "It is unlikely to rain today" vs " there is a remote chance of being hit by a meteor."

When a simple contract enforcement can bring down a club, that makes them folding far from remote. That the NRL has previously enforced the clause before backing down makes that happening again far from remote. If it remains in their best interests to keep The Warriors involved, and Telstra dont object, it makes it happen unlikely. You notice the difference between the two?

On the other hand, SKY is tapped out and wont fund a new team. The rights will revert back to historic norms. Aussie TV gets next to nothing from another NZ team while the opposite is true about new Aussie teams. There are no bids coming out of NZ. Corporate sponsorship has tried up, and there doesn't appear to be an Angel investor willing to put up the capital. This makes the chances of NZ2 "remote"...

Remote > Unlikely... Get it now.?There is more of a chance of there being Zero NRL teams in NZ then there is two or more.

I’m very aware of the difference. You would also say that there is a very or extremely remote chance of being hit by a meteor. Remote alone wouldn’t cover that possibility at all. Sorry to be a pendant about it.

Essentially you think that there is a chance of a team being removed from the competition. I, on the other hand, don’t think it is much of a chance at all (in fact it is the least likely of any outcome and that includes a second NZ side) for multiple reasons:

1. ARLC aren’t strong willed enough to make such a decision for one. They have had opportunities to remove Gold Coast and Newcastle in the recent past and it would have been easy for them to do it but they bailed them out. Warriors were also destitute at one stage. Didn’t kill them off either. There is no appetite whatsoever to remove a side, despite your protestations
2. The last thing that fans want is a team being removed, considering the history of Super League. They run the risk of losing/alienating supporters at a time when the game is becoming more popular.
3. The Warriors are seemingly popular looking at crowds and TV figures over there. Refer to the point above. Why would they kill off a seemingly popular side which has strategic and commercial value? You lose the NZ market and you lose potential player talent. It simply isn’t likely to happen for this reason alone.

Ergo, the fact that you think that there is a chance of this happening (stronger than a second NZ team for instance and I don’t think that is highly likely either but it is at least a possibility) despite all of the above, suggests to me that you may want this to happen, rather than just addressing the likelihood of it soberly.

Also btw stupider is a simple comparative adjective.

Is Stupider (Stupidest) a Word?

Stupider is the comparative form of the adjective stupid. Because stupid is a two-syllable word, its comparative form can be created either by adding the…

www.grammarly.com

 

[Vibing]

NZ Broadcasters pay the NRL 32 mill a year (AUD) for the rights to the NRL as well
a 9th game ( any expansion team ) it goes to 50 mill PA

a 10th game & NZ2 included in a 20 team comp & we're at 75 mill PA

 

[Te Kaha]

Also btw stupider is a simple comparative adjective.

Is Stupider (Stupidest) a Word?

Stupider is the comparative form of the adjective stupid. Because stupid is a two-syllable word, its comparative form can be created either by adding the…

www.grammarly.com

Yes it is a comparative adjective, it is also very poor grammar despite what your site says. But then again these days text speak is considered good grammar so it probably doesnt matter.

Essentially you think that there is a chance of a team being removed from the competition. I, on the other hand, don’t think it is much of a chance at all (in fact it is the least likely of any outcome and that includes a second NZ side) for multiple reasons:

1. ARLC aren’t strong willed enough to make such a decision for one. They have had opportunities to remove Gold Coast and Newcastle in the recent past and it would have been easy for them to do it but they bailed them out. Warriors were also destitute at one stage. Didn’t kill them off either. There is no appetite whatsoever to remove a side, despite your protestations
2. The last thing that fans want is a team being removed, considering the history of Super League. They run the risk of losing/alienating supporters at a time when the game is becoming more popular.

I don't think it is likely either, but given the ease in which it could be done, means it is not remote either. And lets not forget, the Warriors have an angel investor as an owner. Anything happens to him...

3. The Warriors are seemingly popular looking at crowds and TV figures over there. Refer to the point above. Why would they kill off a seemingly popular side which has strategic and commercial value? You lose the NZ market and you lose potential player talent. It simply isn’t likely to happen for this reason alone.

What TV figures? The last ones available have a range of 100K to 250K, with the rest of the NRL reaching 50K (the cut off) on occasion.
Strategic Value? Sure. Commercial value? to whom?
As for player talent? the NRL teams have had no issue raping the domestic scene for years, with or without the Warriors.

Ergo, the fact that you think that there is a chance of this happening (stronger than a second NZ team for instance and I don’t think that is highly likely either but it is at least a possibility) despite all of the above, suggests to me that you may want this to happen, rather than just addressing the likelihood of it soberly.

It was an illustration that the chances of NZ2 are infinitesimal. Sky is tapped out, their next bid will be back to historic norms. Anybody who thinks otherwise knows nothing about economics, or much of anything to be fair.
Australian TV would much rather have new Aussie clubs from which they can make money from. And the rest of the NRL clubs wont want a club that brings nothing to table.

 

[Perth Red]

The Dolphins’ wrecking ball Valynce Te Whare is both the symptom and the solution to the NRL’s Beige Age: an era where talent is spread so thin, three clubs are in the top eight with 5-4 records.
The NRL likes this Any Given Sunday inconsistency where a bottom team beats a top one, but it’s a mistake to equate closeness of results with quality. This was evident in Magic Round when the last-placed Wests Tigers and Dragons met and it appeared neither team could find the panic button, let alone press it.
Even higher up the ladder, the Sharks’ defence parted for the Dolphins’ “Val Meninga” like peasants for a king.
The domination of the 22-year-old Kiwi who has spent a single season in the second tier Queensland Cup reflects the shallow talent pool in the NRL’s 17-club competition.

But Te Whare, who played rugby union in New Zealand, is also the solution to problem. If there is to be expansion, it must be from his homeland, but not until the ARLC funds the Warriors’ development program.
The Auckland-based team currently fields a team in the NSW State Cup competition and another in the SG Ball Under-19 league. But it doesn’t have a team in the NSWRL’s Jersey Flegg Under-21 competition. The age gap from Ball to NRL is too great.
The Warriors won three titles when the NRL ran an Under-20 competition, beginning in 2008 but abandoned in 2017 because of cost factors. Super Rugby teams in New Zealand and Australia aren’t interested in players in that age group. The Roosters’ Angus Crichton played rugby union at Scots College but was told that as a second-rower, he would not make the Waratahs until age 23-24. He played State of Origin for NSW at age 22.

Te Whare is an example of nominative determinism in that “whare” is the Maori name for house, and he resembles the proverbial brick outhouse type. Rather than rely on the canny qualities of NRL recruitment guys like the Dolphins’ Peter O’Sullivan, the ARLC should develop pathways for the young rugby union talent in New Zealand ahead of granting the country a second NRL licence.
NRL club CEOs were told at a recent meeting that the decision on an 18th team will be made in 12 months’ time, with the new club entering the competition in 2027/28.

The ARLC has floated in recent days the possibility of a second Victorian NRL team and a fifth Queensland one. Previously, they offered encouragement to the Perth Bears and a team based in Cairns, drawing on Polynesian and New Guinean talent, funded by the federal government to act as a bulwark against China’s expansion in the Pacific.
But no recent mention of a second New Zealand team, possibly based in Auckland to create a one-city, two-team rivalry.
The success of the Dolphins in their inaugural season has been cited as the justification for expansion. Much of the credit deservedly goes to coach Wayne Bennett, aka, Old Man Winner. However, the Dolphins have drained talent from other clubs, including signing half the Storm’s starting forward pack from the 2022 season.

Melbourne coach Craig Bellamy, despite his renowned ability to turn journeymen into champions, is struggling with the development of his forwards who were dominated by the Rabbitohs in Magic Round.
Loading
Talent transfers across the NRL usually involve a player unwanted at one club signed as a top-30 player at another club. Yet when expansion is mentioned, the motivation is new broadcasting and betting markets, rarely the availability of talent.
Expansion is like El Nino. It causes extreme conditions. Rugby league witnessed this on the eve of the Super League war when the competition expanded by three teams.
But the evidence of the slow growth of the womens’ competition is that the ARLC learned from this. The NRLW has grown from four teams in 2018 to six in 2021, then to 10 teams in 2023. Ditto the NSWRL’s 12-team Under-18 womens’ Tarsha Gale Cup which began in 2017. Compare this with the AFLW which burst to 18 teams in a short period and is a vanilla offering.

Should the ARLC ignore a second New Zealand team in its expansion plans, the Commission deserves to be called the Omission.
Te Whare’s past is the signpost to the NRL’s future.

The Te Whare effect: Why New Zealand should be focus of NRL expansion

New Dolphins cult sensation Valynce Te Whare is both the symptom and the solution to the NRL’s Beige Age where talent has been spread thin across the league.

www.smh.com.au

 

[Colk]

Yes it is a comparative adjective, it is also very poor grammar despite what your site says. But then again these days text speak is considered good grammar so it probably doesnt matter.






I don't think it is likely either, but given the ease in which it could be done, means it is not remote either. And lets not forget, the Warriors have an angel investor as an owner. Anything happens to him...



What TV figures? The last ones available have a range of 100K to 250K, with the rest of the NRL reaching 50K (the cut off) on occasion.
Strategic Value? Sure. Commercial value? to whom?
As for player talent? the NRL teams have had no issue raping the domestic scene for years, with or without the Warriors.



It was an illustration that the chances of NZ2 are infinitesimal. Sky is tapped out, their next bid will be back to historic norms. Anybody who thinks otherwise knows nothing about economics, or much of anything to be fair.
Australian TV would much rather have new Aussie clubs from which they can make money from. And the rest of the NRL clubs wont want a club that brings nothing to table.

1. The point I was making is that any decision would not be seen in some perfunctory manner as the simple enforcement of an agreement. If it were seen as simply a transactional arrangement by the NRL and you didn’t have the history of the Super League in the background, then your point would probably be valid. The fact that this is not the case, would suggest that the chances of this happening as rather nanoscopic.

2. Simply they would earn more money by virtue of having them in the competition then they would if they didn’t. It would not be at the level of Brisbane, Melbourne or some of the stronger Sydney teams for sure but they would have more commercial value then a few Australian sides.

3. I’m not disagreeing you with that there are significant impediments to a second NZ side. I would also agree that Perth and other areas in Australia would add more commercially and thus they would be more favoured, nevertheless, I find it a bit strange to argue that it is less likely than having none, considering the history of the competition and other factors.

 

[Te Kaha]

1. The point I was making is that any decision would not be seen in some perfunctory manner as the simple enforcement of an agreement. If it were seen as simply a transactional arrangement by the NRL and you didn’t have the history of the Super League in the background, then your point would probably be valid. The fact that this is not the case, would suggest that the chances of this happening as rather nanoscopic.

As I said, it was to illustrate the remote chance of NZ2 happening now. Hyperbole probably, but the point strands.

2. Simply they would earn more money by virtue of having them in the competition then they would if they didn’t. It would not be at the level of Brisbane, Melbourne or some of the stronger Sydney teams for sure but they would have more commercial value then a few Australian sides.

It will come down to what is commercially better, and what the Aussie TV rights holders want. A new Aussie team in another timeslot be will be worth exponentially more than anything NZ2 offers.

3. I’m not disagreeing you with that there are significant impediments to a second NZ side. I would also agree that Perth and other areas in Australia would add more commercially and thus they would be more favoured, nevertheless, I find it a bit strange to argue that it is less likely than having none, considering the history of the competition and other factors.

Its more than significant. Had Spark still been around it may have been different. But they aren't and Sky has no reason to bid any more then it historically has for the rights. TV3\Discovery is barely surviving and TVNZ is being moved to less commercial, more culturally inclusive path. Sport is not going to be on the list unless its very cheap. And as i said, hyperbole maybe, but not by much.

 

[Te Kaha]

The Dolphins’ wrecking ball Valynce Te Whare is both the symptom and the solution to the NRL’s Beige Age: an era where talent is spread so thin, three clubs are in the top eight with 5-4 records.
The NRL likes this Any Given Sunday inconsistency where a bottom team beats a top one, but it’s a mistake to equate closeness of results with quality. This was evident in Magic Round when the last-placed Wests Tigers and Dragons met and it appeared neither team could find the panic button, let alone press it.
Even higher up the ladder, the Sharks’ defence parted for the Dolphins’ “Val Meninga” like peasants for a king.
The domination of the 22-year-old Kiwi who has spent a single season in the second tier Queensland Cup reflects the shallow talent pool in the NRL’s 17-club competition.

But Te Whare, who played rugby union in New Zealand, is also the solution to problem. If there is to be expansion, it must be from his homeland, but not until the ARLC funds the Warriors’ development program.
The Auckland-based team currently fields a team in the NSW State Cup competition and another in the SG Ball Under-19 league. But it doesn’t have a team in the NSWRL’s Jersey Flegg Under-21 competition. The age gap from Ball to NRL is too great.
The Warriors won three titles when the NRL ran an Under-20 competition, beginning in 2008 but abandoned in 2017 because of cost factors. Super Rugby teams in New Zealand and Australia aren’t interested in players in that age group. The Roosters’ Angus Crichton played rugby union at Scots College but was told that as a second-rower, he would not make the Waratahs until age 23-24. He played State of Origin for NSW at age 22.

Te Whare is an example of nominative determinism in that “whare” is the Maori name for house, and he resembles the proverbial brick outhouse type. Rather than rely on the canny qualities of NRL recruitment guys like the Dolphins’ Peter O’Sullivan, the ARLC should develop pathways for the young rugby union talent in New Zealand ahead of granting the country a second NRL licence.
NRL club CEOs were told at a recent meeting that the decision on an 18th team will be made in 12 months’ time, with the new club entering the competition in 2027/28.

The ARLC has floated in recent days the possibility of a second Victorian NRL team and a fifth Queensland one. Previously, they offered encouragement to the Perth Bears and a team based in Cairns, drawing on Polynesian and New Guinean talent, funded by the federal government to act as a bulwark against China’s expansion in the Pacific.
But no recent mention of a second New Zealand team, possibly based in Auckland to create a one-city, two-team rivalry.
The success of the Dolphins in their inaugural season has been cited as the justification for expansion. Much of the credit deservedly goes to coach Wayne Bennett, aka, Old Man Winner. However, the Dolphins have drained talent from other clubs, including signing half the Storm’s starting forward pack from the 2022 season.

Melbourne coach Craig Bellamy, despite his renowned ability to turn journeymen into champions, is struggling with the development of his forwards who were dominated by the Rabbitohs in Magic Round.
Loading
Talent transfers across the NRL usually involve a player unwanted at one club signed as a top-30 player at another club. Yet when expansion is mentioned, the motivation is new broadcasting and betting markets, rarely the availability of talent.
Expansion is like El Nino. It causes extreme conditions. Rugby league witnessed this on the eve of the Super League war when the competition expanded by three teams.
But the evidence of the slow growth of the womens’ competition is that the ARLC learned from this. The NRLW has grown from four teams in 2018 to six in 2021, then to 10 teams in 2023. Ditto the NSWRL’s 12-team Under-18 womens’ Tarsha Gale Cup which began in 2017. Compare this with the AFLW which burst to 18 teams in a short period and is a vanilla offering.

Should the ARLC ignore a second New Zealand team in its expansion plans, the Commission deserves to be called the Omission.
Te Whare’s past is the signpost to the NRL’s future.

The Te Whare effect: Why New Zealand should be focus of NRL expansion

New Dolphins cult sensation Valynce Te Whare is both the symptom and the solution to the NRL’s Beige Age where talent has been spread thin across the league.

www.smh.com.au

" If there is to be expansion, it must be from his homeland, but not until the ARLC funds the Warriors’ development program." It would be a start, but nowhere near enough. you would need to spend millions in the proposed location first.... And that makes it three people who have said the same thing now. Masters, The owner of the Warriors and me.

 

[Foreign Legion]

The Te Whare effect: Why New Zealand should be focus of NRL expansion

New Dolphins cult sensation Valynce Te Whare is both the symptom and the solution to the NRL’s Beige Age where talent has been spread thin across the league.

www.smh.com.au

 

[Perth Red]

" If there is to be expansion, it must be from his homeland, but not until the ARLC funds the Warriors’ development program." It would be a start, but nowhere near enough. you would need to spend millions in the proposed location first.... And that makes it three people who have said the same thing now. Masters, The owner of the Warriors and me.

Needs t go way beyond funding the Warriors program, needs to be grassroots across the country and a secondary elite program in whatever city is most likley to host NZ2.

He seems to think NZ2 are based placed in Auckland, that doesnt seem like a good idea to me.

 

[Te Kaha]

Needs t go way beyond funding the Warriors program, needs to be grassroots across the country and a secondary elite program in whatever city is most likley to host NZ2.

He seems to think NZ2 are based placed in Auckland, that doesnt seem like a good idea to me.

To be fair its the only place it could possibly work if there isn't the investment first. Over 90% of NZs RL players reside there.

 

[Colk]

As I said, it was to illustrate the remote chance of NZ2 happening now. Hyperbole probably, but the point strands.



It will come down to what is commercially better, and what the Aussie TV rights holders want. A new Aussie team in another timeslot be will be worth exponentially more than anything NZ2 offers.



Its more than significant. Had Spark still been around it may have been different. But they aren't and Sky has no reason to bid any more then it historically has for the rights. TV3\Discovery is barely surviving and TVNZ is being moved to less commercial, more culturally inclusive path. Sport is not going to be on the list unless its very cheap. And as i said, hyperbole maybe, but not by much.

It was extreme hyperbole. Hence why I called having three sides (which is the extreme opposite of your view and the poster you’re constantly arguing against) or having none were both examples of exaggeration.

Hyperbole or exaggeration just doesn’t help your argument really.

 

[Te Kaha]

It was extreme hyperbole. Hence why I called having three sides (which is the extreme opposite of your view and the poster you’re constantly arguing against) or having none were both examples of exaggeration.

Hyperbole or exaggeration just doesn’t help your argument really.

It really wasn't that extreme at all. And certainly less extreme than saying NZ2 is next off the rank.

 

[Gobsmacked]

No the most likely outcome is that Perth comes in as 18, the complaints about the standard of play come back and they stop there.

You are clinging to the hope that someone will come along to bid. But The other Aussie clubs wont want it when there is nobody in NZ to pay for it and the Aussie media companies get no value from NZ . Then there is Sky who are tapped out... The next rights deal will be back near where it's historically been. You dont like it, but it's simple economics. NZ2 is dead.

Today...
Like I said
..
Gathering momentum

The Te Whare effect: Why New Zealand should be focus of NRL expansion

New Dolphins cult sensation Valynce Te Whare is both the symptom and the solution to the NRL’s Beige Age where talent has been spread thin across the league.

amp.smh.com.au