New Zealand 2 will deal a massive blow to NZ rugby

[The Penguin #6.]

Petals can we please stop all this masculinity talk. I'm a homosexual man that's struggled with my masculinity for years and years. Until one day I told myself "Victor, stop being a silly billy and accept your a homosexual". It was the greatest day of my life but my mother and step father cried all afternoon. That night was hard but the next day I visited a place called Arrows, a gay bathhouse in parramatta. After cleaning myself up I noticed a parramatta player in the carpark. We talked for hours whilst crying and laughing. He told me his coming out story and I become a parramatta fanboy. So petals please don't fight and enjoy this forum
Ps I know you all are dying to know the players name. Here are a few clues, he's a winger that played during the early 2000's and had a very odd international team.

I`ve got no problem with your homosexuality but do you really have to have such a tacky avatar. I don`t know what you are trying to say with that but it seems unnecessary.

 

[The Penguin #6.]

This is obviously before your time but this is what we grew up with

we know what rugby league is capable of

Still gives me goosebumps.

 

[Wb1234]

*sigh*... what is it with Australians and stupidity. Adams isn't the first NZ player in the NBA. He is the first who is spending his millions on establishing academies and scholarships to young Māori and Pacific Islanders.

"All other sports" shouldn't be "shaking in their boots".. just the contact team sports linked to concussion causing CTE.
Basketball is by far and away the fastest growing sport in NZ among Māori and Pacific Islanders. So yes both Rugby codes should be worried about it, and unless they can address the concussion issues both will be dead here with in a few decades.

Still gives me goosebumps.

 

[Wb1234]

Still gives me goosebumps.

Just a little bit below

one of gallops best moves

 

[mongoose]

*sigh*... what is it with Australians and stupidity. Adams isn't the first NZ player in the NBA. He is the first who is spending his millions on establishing academies and scholarships to young Māori and Pacific Islanders.

"All other sports" shouldn't be "shaking in their boots".. just the contact team sports linked to concussion causing CTE.
Basketball is by far and away the fastest growing sport in NZ among Māori and Pacific Islanders. So yes both Rugby codes should be worried about it, and unless they can address the concussion issues both will be dead here with in a few decades.

well ok then, you made some claim about Adams making more money than a whole NRL team as if that was some game changing thing when Australia has had many players in the NBA making millions since the 90s. hasn't hurt the domestic competitions, except maybe Basketball.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

*sigh*... what is it with Australians and stupidity. Adams isn't the first NZ player in the NBA. He is the first who is spending his millions on establishing academies and scholarships to young Māori and Pacific Islanders.

"All other sports" shouldn't be "shaking in their boots".. just the contact team sports linked to concussion causing CTE.
Basketball is by far and away the fastest growing sport in NZ among Māori and Pacific Islanders. So yes both Rugby codes should be worried about it, and unless they can address the concussion issues both will be dead here with in a few decades.

I started watching the NBL last year. There's quite a few Polynesians and Indigenous Australians in the competition. A second or a third NBL team in New Zealand could generate more interest from the Polynesian community.

 

[Te Kaha]

well ok then, you made some claim about Adams making more money than a whole NRL team as if that was some game changing thing when Australia has had many players in the NBA making millions since the 90s. hasn't hurt the domestic competitions, except maybe Basketball.

You did know we are talking about NZ didn't you? It's clear from this thread Australians are selfish pricks, so those NBA players didn't invest in Australian development, Adams is not. He is spending millions each year to grow the game outside of Basketball NZ. And its working.
While Rugby junior numbers are falling, and League numbers have tanked completely, Basketball teenage numbers have skyrocketed thanks mainly to Adams. If you don't think that is going to effect NRL recruitment in five years you are a moron.

And everything has changed since the 90's. Concussion related CTE wasn't a thing in the 90's. It is now.

 

[Wb1234]

well before this thread was started we never knew junior numbers were falling in union

the sport is just a baskecase rn in the pacific

 

[Perth Red]

It’d be interesting to know what the relationship between the arlc and nzrl is like.? I’m guessing it’s pretty shthouse given how reluctant the arlc have been over the years to do anything to support the game in nz.
at the very least there should be a decent jnr funding program coming out of arlc coffers and a nz v aus test match in nz every year with all profits going to nzrl. Then a 10% cut of any nz media deals going to nzrl and finally the next nrl license should be owned by the nzrl and they can get an ongoing fee for it from the nrl club same as happens in WA for AFL.

that’d be a decent start to setting up nz for success instead of failure.

 

[Te Kaha]

well before this thread was started we never knew junior numbers were falling in union

the sport is just a baskecase rn in the pacific

But you knew that junior numbers in League were worse and you still think a second club will work? That's just weird.

 

[Wb1234]

But you knew that junior numbers in League were worse and you still think a second club will work? That's just weird.

Nah I don’t believe it’s that situation at all

but someone who continually exaggerates how strong union is to admit their juniors are falling then it must be true

thanks for the info

 

[The Great Dane]

You Aussies still don't get it. It's even passed that. Local clubs are going under, not just out in the provinces, but in the cities as well. Putting an NRL club in a city may help that single city for a time, but it will be at the expense of every other province, city and town in the country.

Creative destruction is the price of progress in all forms of economics and business.

It's an unavoidable necessity that for progress to happen it requires old methods of meeting the demand of the marketplace to be replaced by more efficient methods as they sprout up, and that that replacement can, and more often than not will, have destructive short term impacts. Now you may argue that that is regrettable, and I'd agree with you more often than not, but the reality is that you don't need the services of most of your employees once you automate the factory.

If RL in NZ is to progress and grow it needs significant investment and publicity of the kind that is only achievable with a top down approach. That will almost certainly have significant impacts on the current local RL scene in NZ, just as NSWRL/NRL expansion forced seismic change to RL locally in Canberra, Brisbane, Newcastle, etc, but as I alluded to before, that's one of the costs of doing business.

Same thing has been happening to Rugby, but they at least are trying to stem it. They gave every province a million dollars each this year to invest in local clubs, on infrastructure, on player development, on player retention, on facilities, on debt reduction. Without something similar there will be no players for a new NRL team to call on.

That sort of investment in the grassroots, and the creation of well defined professional pathways, would be a necessity if the NRL is to have a significant impact on the NZ market, and it wouldn't require a local NRL team in each market initially either (but that's an aside).

Broadly speaking it's also what I was talking about when I said this-

A top down approach where a professional side, with strong backing and a long term plan, pushes interests and attracts investment that can then be reinvested into the sport at the all levels in the region.

and this-

I fully accept that for such growth to be successful in NZ on a national scale it'd require hundreds of millions of dollars to be invested over a period of decades, and at least 4/5 NRL clubs spread across the country, but that is the only realistic way forward if the goal is to significantly increase RL's market share in NZ.

Frankly I'm not sold on NZ expansion being a top priority myself (there's significantly more to be gained for a smaller investment in Australia IMO), but your arguments are increasingly coming off as ludditery.

 

[The Great Dane]

But you knew that junior numbers in League were worse and you still think a second club will work? That's just weird.

Again, the only way you're going to significantly increase RL's participation numbers in NZ is with a well funded long term plan and a professional product to push interest, and the only way that that's realistically achievable on a national scale would be for the NRL to take the NZ market seriously and invest in it in an attempt to take a significant slice of market share.

This weird old school attitude that a market needs to show significant demand before we consider expanding there is insane. It'd be like McDonald's refusing to expand to a new market because Big Mac sales are non-existent there...

For the most part that's the position that the NRL is in in most of NZ, and the only way you'll change that is to enter the market and get about the business of building a customer base .

 

[The Great Dane]

It’d be interesting to know what the relationship between the arlc and nzrl is like.? I’m guessing it’s pretty shthouse given how reluctant the arlc have been over the years to do anything to support the game in nz.
at the very least there should be a decent jnr funding program coming out of arlc coffers and a nz v aus test match in nz every year with all profits going to nzrl. Then a 10% cut of any nz media deals going to nzrl and finally the next nrl license should be owned by the nzrl and they can get an ongoing fee for it from the nrl club same as happens in WA for AFL.

that’d be a decent start to setting up nz for success instead of failure.

That's not surprising given the NZRL's history. Historically they couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery, let alone be trusted with fortunes they didn't earn. What little of that money that wasn't squandered wouldn't leave Auckland's city perimeter.

You might argue that the NRL and ARLC aren't all that great themselves, and I'd agree, but the levels of incompetence displayed in NZ RL over the years is on a whole other level. I can understand the opposition to this, but if I was the NRL or ARLC I wouldn't give the NZRL a cent unless they gave me ironclad oversight over their operations and how that money was invested.

 

[Perth Red]

Here’s a thought! Given the concerns over CTE and parents risk aversion to contact sport now and Into the future do we need to rethink nrl player development priorities? It’s always been considered that we need to increase participation to increase talent at the top. This may now be an unrealistic target. Maybe we should look to the states where participation in American football,is, relatively speaking, tiny. They don’t worry about how many kids are playing AF and out their efforts into marking sure that the ones that are get the very best training, coaching and facilities to improve to feed the NFL.
maybe we need to stop worrying about how may kids are playing RL in NZ or WA or anywhere else and concentrate on making sure that the ones that are have the very best development opportunities to make it to first grade?

for participation have touch and even nines which are less physical and risky versions of the game

 

[Te Kaha]

Nah I don’t believe it’s that situation at all

but someone who continually exaggerates how strong union is to admit their juniors are falling then it must be true

thanks for the info

Of course you don't believe it. You're stupid.

 

[Te Kaha]

Creative destruction is the price of progress in all forms of economics and business.

It's an unavoidable necessity that for progress to happen it requires old methods of meeting the demand of the marketplace to be replaced by more efficient methods as they sprout up, and that that replacement can, and more often than not will, have destructive short term impacts. Now you may argue that that is regrettable, and I'd agree with you more often than not, but the reality is that you don't need the services of most of your employees once you automate the factory.

If RL in NZ is to progress and grow it needs significant investment and publicity of the kind that is only achievable with a top down approach. That will almost certainly have significant impacts on the current local RL scene in NZ, just as NSWRL/NRL expansion forced seismic change to RL locally in Canberra, Brisbane, Newcastle, etc, but as I alluded to before, that's one of the costs of doing business.

That sort of investment in the grassroots, and the creation of well defined professional pathways, would be a necessity if the NRL is to have a significant impact on the NZ market, and it wouldn't require a local NRL team in each market initially either (but that's an aside).

Broadly speaking it's also what I was talking about when I said this-

and this-


Frankly I'm not sold on NZ expansion being a top priority myself (there's significantly more to be gained for a smaller investment in Australia IMO), but your arguments are increasingly coming off as ludditery.

You're entire argument is based on "Build it and they will come". and I'm the "luddite". "Build it and they will come" requires instant success to achieve. Hasn't worked in Auckland, the biggest League market in the country, but will work in smaller cities with a smaller League presence?

Whose going to pay for it?
- Aussie TV money wont, the warriors are among the worst rating teams.
- Sky TV wont pay for it, no competition and wont increase their subscription base.
- Angel investor? There aren't too many of those around and if they do their due diligence they may see what a money sink it is.

Whose going to be in the team?
- Few juniors and are getting less every day. Concussion worries are only getting worse.
- NZ NRL players aren't even coming back to Auckland let alone Wellington\Chch
- Top Aussie players aren't touching the Warriors with a barge pole, but they will a second team?
- All Blacks, can't afford them and most have never played the game.
- Super Rugby level players would require massive investment in training them to play League.

Despite your assertion it is "luddite" thinking, without the established pathways for juniors to come through, "Build it and they will come" wont work.

 

[Perth Red]

You're entire argument is based on "Build it and they will come". and I'm the "luddite". "Build it and they will come" requires instant success to achieve. Hasn't worked in Auckland, the biggest League market in the country, but will work in smaller cities with a smaller League presence?

Whose going to pay for it?
- Aussie TV money wont, the warriors are among the worst rating teams.
- Sky TV wont pay for it, no competition and wont increase their subscription base.
- Angel investor? There aren't too many of those around and if they do their due diligence they may see what a money sink it is.

Whose going to be in the team?
- Few juniors and are getting less every day. Concussion worries are only getting worse.
- NZ NRL players aren't even coming back to Auckland let alone Wellington\Chch
- Top Aussie players aren't touching the Warriors with a barge pole, but they will a second team?
- All Blacks, can't afford them and most have never played the game.
- Super Rugby level players would require massive investment in training them to play League.

Despite your assertion it is "luddite" thinking, without the established pathways for juniors to come through, "Build it and they will come" wont work.

I’m not of the mind that we should ever expand primarily to try and damage another sport, that’s just dumb thinking. Besides union is doing a pretty good job of self harm at the moment!
However given the ability for players to earn a very good wage in nrl these days the arlc/nzrl could do a much better job in setting up elite pathways that would give the very talented 16 year old a genuine option if to stick with union or go with league as a career. I’d rather they spent $17mill a year on these pathway systems in NZ than blew it on another struggling nz nrl club in Christchurch or somewhere. The game would benefit a lot more from that approach. Maybe an elite 8 team U18’s comp to match sg ball?

 

[Wb1234]

Of course you don't believe it. You're stupid.

I’m not the one having a meltdown every post

name calling every single person on here also shows what a weak argument you have

all the best trolling

 

[mongoose]

You did know we are talking about NZ didn't you? It's clear from this thread Australians are selfish pricks, so those NBA players didn't invest in Australian development, Adams is not. He is spending millions each year to grow the game outside of Basketball NZ. And its working.
While Rugby junior numbers are falling, and League numbers have tanked completely, Basketball teenage numbers have skyrocketed thanks mainly to Adams. If you don't think that is going to effect NRL recruitment in five years you are a moron.

And everything has changed since the 90's. Concussion related CTE wasn't a thing in the 90's. It is now.

probably because basketball didn't need growing in Australia. It's been hugely popular since the early 90s... I guess NZ is just a couple of decades behind.... That's really cute that all these Kiwi kids are now signing up to be Basketball stars but let me tell you something. If you want to make it in the NBA and you are not lets say 6'7'' or taller then you better be really f**king good at the jump shot.