New Zealand 2 will deal a massive blow to NZ rugby

[Perth Red]

Times are different now. Basketball is seen as a viable alternative if you are a big Māori or Pacific Islander, you have potential to earn millions without the risk of concussion. You also don't need many players for a group of mates to have a pick up game. There is a court in just about every town in the country.

at an amateur level maybe but your odds of making a career out of sport is much greater in either rugby code than basketball If you’re a kiwi/islander. I dont see many highly talented 16 year olds going with basketball over either rugby.

 

[Te Kaha]

Which name did he use that got banned?

I can't publish that, then I would be obliged to report it to Admin and he would be banned again. His stupidity is much to entertaining for that. Lets just say he seriously pissed off a particular admin.

 

[Te Kaha]

at an amateur level maybe but your odds of making a career out of sport is much greater in either rugby code than basketball If you’re a kiwi/islander. I dont see many highly talented 16 year olds going with basketball over either rugby.

For sure the odds are much greater in the Rugby codes. But the perception is that you don't get concussion anywhere as often or as bad in Basketball, you can play professional Basketball in almost every part of the world, and if you make the NBA you and your family are set for life.
It's not the 16 year olds, its the 10, 11, 12, 13 year olds who are just having more fun playing basketball with parents who don't have to worry about the kids health so they continue playing.
In the Rugby codes, the 10,11,12,13 year olds are having fun, but are often injured. The drop off of player numbers in the Rugby codes between 13 and 16 is a problem, but the drop off between 16-18 is over 50%. If you can't keep them in the preteen years, there is no hope in the teenage years.

 

[Te Kaha]

Just unfollow the thread lol

I tried to put the troll on block but I can’t and it keeps making responses when I’ve tried to ignore it

at first I was enjoying each meltdown now even that’s no longer funny

Then stop posting your bullshit. easy fix.

 

[Perth Red]

For sure the odds are much greater in the Rugby codes. But the perception is that you don't get concussion anywhere as often or as bad in Basketball, you can play professional Basketball in almost every part of the world, and if you make the NBA you and your family are set for life.
It's not the 16 year olds, its the 10, 11, 12, 13 year olds who are just having more fun playing basketball with parents who don't have to worry about the kids health so they continue playing.
In the Rugby codes, the 10,11,12,13 year olds are having fun, but are often injured. The drop off of player numbers in the Rugby codes between 13 and 16 is a problem, but the drop off between 16-18 is over 50%. If you can't keep them in the preteen years, there is no hope in the teenage years.

I get what your saying at an amateur participation level but if youre a talented athlete coming through the sports age groups you’re still far more likely to make a good sports career in the rugby codes. The odds of making it in Nba are teeny tiny and very much limited to certain height growth outcomes Which you’re not going to know at 15 for most kids. There will always be kids, like me, who love contact and dangerous sport.
again though we may be looking at it wrong. In gridiron participation is tiny, drop off is huge, yet their systems produce enough to expand the comp significantly at the top level. It’s more important to have quality pathways than participation numbers imo.

 

[Te Kaha]

I get what your saying at an amateur participation level but if youre a talented athlete coming through the sports age groups you’re still far more likely to make a good sports career in the rugby codes. The odds of making it in Nba are teeny tiny and very much limited to certain height growth outcomes Which you’re not going to know at 15 for most kids. There will always be kids, like me, who love contact and dangerous sport.
again though we may be looking at it wrong. In gridiron participation is tiny, drop off is huge, yet their systems produce enough to expand the comp significantly at the top level. It’s more important to have quality pathways than participation numbers imo.

Two numbers make the Gridiron reference irrelevant 335 Million vs 5 million.

But yes having the quality pathways in place to guide kids into professional players is most important.

 

[Wb1234]

Then stop posting your bullshit. easy fix.

Stop projecting nutterfax

this thread is for league fans who want to talk about the game growing

I can’t see anyone who wants to read your bs

im going to ignore you now for a bit soz

isn’t repeated personal abuse a reason for people to get banned ? I mean every single post contains personal abuse it’s beyond the pale now

 

[Gobsmacked]

Stop projecting nutterfax

this thread is for league fans who want to talk about the game growing

I can’t see anyone who wants to read your bs

im going to ignore you now for a bit soz

isn’t repeated personal abuse a reason for people to get banned ? I mean every single post contains personal abuse it’s beyond the pale now

The personal attacks are around 2 per post ( you're so stupid bla bla)
That's just a purely insecure person without a sound argument.
Every insult I take as a compliment tbh.

 

[Wb1234]

The personal attacks are around 2 per post ( you're so stupid bla bla)
That's just a purely insecure person without a sound argument.
Every insult I take as a compliment tbh.

Yeh but as a mod he should know better lmao

the guy is probably 50 but you would think he’s a child with these retorts

literally it’s a rugby league forum. Of course people are going to discuss league taking over

if that upsets you maybe don’t go on a rugby league forum

but when you don’t agree with him being called stupid is the least of his jabs

anytime someone uses a personal attack I know I’ve won the argument with facts and often I just ignore them

which is what I’m going to do with him

 

[Te Kaha]

Stop projecting nutterfax

this thread is for league fans who want to talk about the game growing

I can’t see anyone who wants to read your bs

im going to ignore you now for a bit soz

isn’t repeated personal abuse a reason for people to get banned ? I mean every single post contains personal abuse it’s beyond the pale now

That's just lame. Accusing me of being someone I'm not, knowing full well it isn't.

And no this thread is no such thing, just look at the thread title "New Zealand 2 will deal a massive blow to NZ rugby" . Its about an erroneous assumption form selfish Australians who don't care about NZ League and just want a source of players since they can't find enough in their own country.

The personal attacks are around 2 per post ( you're so stupid bla bla)
That's just a purely insecure person without a sound argument.
Every insult I take as a compliment tbh.

And speaking of lame. Traveling all the way to Mexico and then arguing on the internet.

 

[Te Kaha]

Yeh but as a mod he should know better lmao

the guy is probably 50 but you would think he’s a child with these retorts

literally it’s a rugby league forum. Of course people are going to discuss league taking over

if that upsets you maybe don’t go on a rugby league forum

but when you don’t agree with him being called stupid is the least of his jabs

anytime someone uses a personal attack I know I’ve won the argument with facts and often I just ignore them

which is what I’m going to do with him

And yet you can't. And deep down you know your argument is deeply flawed and will never happen.

 

[Perth Red]

Two numbers make the Gridiron reference irrelevant 335 Million vs 5 million.

But yes having the quality pathways in place to guide kids into professional players is most important.

It’s all relative, drop off is massive, not many kids playing gridiron at 18, hardly any make the draft. It’s about pathways more than numbers.
eg high school jnrs 1.9million
college footballers 73,000 (17-21 year olds mostly)
draft each year 400
32 teams 1696 first grade players in NFL.

NRL 17 teams 612 players
NRL would probably have around 50-80 new 20-22 year olds get first grade contracts each year. So in theory that means we only need around 10-15,000 17-21 year olds playing rugby league across Aus, PI and nz each year.

 

[mongoose]

Here’s a thought! Given the concerns over CTE and parents risk aversion to contact sport now and Into the future do we need to rethink nrl player development priorities? It’s always been considered that we need to increase participation to increase talent at the top. This may now be an unrealistic target. Maybe we should look to the states where participation in American football,is, relatively speaking, tiny. They don’t worry about how many kids are playing AF and out their efforts into marking sure that the ones that are get the very best training, coaching and facilities to improve to feed the NFL.
maybe we need to stop worrying about how may kids are playing RL in NZ or WA or anywhere else and concentrate on making sure that the ones that are have the very best development opportunities to make it to first grade?

for participation have touch and even nines which are less physical and risky versions of the game

Don't we already do this? I think the development and pathways once you get to a certain level are very strong in the NRL. I'm actually amazed at how many decent first graders still come through each year considering much how male participation is supposed to be declining... There does seem to be a lack of quality halves though and I doubt we will ever see a diminutive Alan Langer or even Brett Kimmorley type in the NRL again.

The truth is League isn't a demanding game skill wise for the majority of positions, we don't need a huge pool of players. It's very much a game where I believe team work ethic and culture are more important for success than individual skill or athleticism. Just look at the Storm over the past 16 or so years. Average journeyman become rep quality players just because the system they have in place.

 

[Wb1234]

The personal attacks are around 2 per post ( you're so stupid bla bla)
That's just a purely insecure person without a sound argument.
Every insult I take as a compliment tbh.

I found some figures you might be interested in

nrl turnover 640 million pa
Combined aru and nzru turnover 280 million

ntl tv deal will add at least one hundred million to the nrls turnover

you can see on those figures what’s going to happen

 

[SpaceMonkey]

Don't we already do this? I think the development and pathways once you get to a certain level are very strong in the NRL. I'm actually amazed at how many decent first graders still come through each year considering much how male participation is supposed to be declining... There does seem to be a lack of quality halves though and I doubt we will ever see a diminutive Alan Langer or even Brett Kimmorley type in the NRL again.

The truth is League isn't a demanding game skill wise for the majority of positions, we don't need a huge pool of players. It's very much a game where I believe team work ethic and culture are more important for success than individual skill or athleticism. Just look at the Storm over the past 16 or so years. Average journeyman become rep quality players just because the system they have in place.

And that’s the problem in NZ- those pathways just don’t exist there at present in League. Australia (at least in NSW/QLD) has that development structure well set up.
NZ does have those pathways in Union which is why they can continually churn out more elite players than any other country despite relatively low participation (England’s raw participation numbers well outstrip NZ).

 

[Wb1234]

And that’s the problem in NZ- those pathways just don’t exist there at present in League. Australia (at least in NSW/QLD) has that development structure well set up.
NZ does have those pathways in Union which is why they can continually churn out more elite players than any other country despite relatively low participation (England’s raw participation numbers well outstrip NZ).

Nrl clubs do actively chase nz juniors and put them in their own pathway systems here

but they should bring back a nationally televised under 20s

kiwi kids don’t seem to see playing for the warriors as the goal

indeed lately the roosters for example are hitting it out of the park with kiwi juniors

 

[bad boy bubby]

NRL clubs have been bringing NZ juniors over to Australia for a long time now. SBW and Benji being two of the most famous of those that have.

From what I can gather from this thread, if you are in the All Black squad you get well paid. How many players in that squad?
Not all Union juniors can play League, but a lot can.
18 teams with squads of 30 players each means they could have a better chance of making a good living in the NRL than the much smaller chance of being an All Black.

Of course this means raiding the Union ranks, which has been going on for a very, very long time.

 

[SpaceMonkey]

Nrl clubs do actively chase nz juniors and put them in their own pathway systems here

but they should bring back a nationally televised under 20s

kiwi kids don’t seem to see playing for the warriors as the goal

indeed lately the roosters for example are hitting it out of the park with kiwi juniors

It’s not that they don’t see playing for the Warriors as a goal- it’s just that there’s no pathway to get there other than the Warriors own development system, and that’s limited because it can’t provide the kids in it with meaningful competitions to play in at that development level. Juniors need to come up playing in competitions where there are well coached, competitive teams playing each other. The Aussie clubs who bring kids over from NZ and send them to places like Keebra Park are in a position to give them a better grounding than the Warriors can in NZ.

 

[Matua]

NRL clubs have been bringing NZ juniors over to Australia for a long time now. SBW and Benji being two of the most famous of those that have.

From what I can gather from this thread, if you are in the All Black squad you get well paid. How many players in that squad?
Not all Union juniors can play League, but a lot can.
18 teams with squads of 30 players each means they could have a better chance of making a good living in the NRL than the much smaller chance of being an All Black.

Of course this means raiding the Union ranks, which has been going on for a very, very long time.

You're overstating the have to be ABs to earn a living a bit. If that was actually the case we wouldn't be able to form any teams in Super Rugby or the NPC. Yet there are 5 Super Squads, WTG, and back up players, and then 14 NPC teams. Even a small province like mine, Hawkes Bay, has a majority of Super players so they're getting their main money there and the NPC is an add on.

As I've said previously in this thread the boom time for snatching up rugby players was when the Holden Cup was running as young guys under 20 could get a little bit of money as opposed to no money.

To give a little bit of perspective, Tohu Harris signed with the Storm after he was not offered an Academy spot with Hawkes Bay. Obviously it was clearly the right decision, I think his style is more suited to league, but I think it's reminder to not take it for granted that young rugby players all will switch to league.

 

[Brian potter]

Nrl clubs do actively chase nz juniors and put them in their own pathway systems here

but they should bring back a nationally televised under 20s

kiwi kids don’t seem to see playing for the warriors as the goal

indeed lately the roosters for example are hitting it out of the park with kiwi juniors

The u20’s Holden/Toyota cup was a fantastic competition and format to attract and showcase top rugby talent from both predominately league and to a lesser degree union backgrounds.

The live coverage of games before the senior grade mens NRL games was also a great selling point and plus for the competition.

They should bring it back and spice it up even further by adding new teams from NZ South Island, PNG hunters, kaiviti silktails and Western Australia.