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New Zealand 2 will deal a massive blow to NZ rugby

Matiunz

Juniors
Messages
870
Either way you have an effective supporter catchment of about 500k in terms of the population that are close enough to regularly attend games, and other southerners would still support a Christchurch team over an Auckland based one.
Christchurch you kind of limit the supporter base to the South Island as I’d image the other 4m North Islanders would likely stick with the North Island team?
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
69,869
Extra sold out game vs the dolphins would
Be worth a few millon on its own
Haha business really isnt your strong point is it? Half the crowd would already have paid as members. So let’s say 20k paying at gate an avg $50 that’s $1mill. It costs $400k to rent the stadium for that extra game. With corporate sales be lucky to have been worth $1mill once costs taken out.
 

Matiunz

Juniors
Messages
870
Waaay too many Union flogs on a League forum, granted you all parrot the exact same bull shit...funny that.

There's like 5 Union guys commenting on this thread.. less League guys..

Why don't you Union flogs get your own forum? Or is Union dying in the forum department as rapidly as Super Rugby?

Please tell again how wonderful the losing AB team is? ?
Interesting you keep parroting ‘losing ABs’ but they have both a higher recent and historical win % than your ‘best rugby team Kangaroos’
Yet they’d loose 100-0 to a club side?

It’s folly from both sides to discount the quality of players from both codes as both have numerous gifted athletes. Despite what you say about ‘Union trolls’ I am ironically been called the opposite on Union forums for defending league against people of a similar vein- it’s possible to enjoy both sports and I feel sorry for those who limit themselves. Viewing wise I generally prefer to watch League as Union of late is far too over reffed. Playing wise I prefer to play Union as I’m a tight forward scrum/ruck/line out work is better suited to my build and adds another dimension for me.

Would love to see NZ2 but I have questions over the viability- it’s like saying it’d be great to have a team in Adelaide or Tassie, sounds great in theory but you’d have to seriously look at the the long term viability.

Also for arguments sake which of the current kiwis would you think would walk in and dominate union?
 
Messages
14,822
Big hand out increase from nrl and broncos making the gf had nothing to do with the revenue increase I suppose lol
For years you've used the Melbourne Storm as a reason to expand into Adelaide and Perth.

The club has been camped inside the top four of the NRL ladder over the bulk of its existence.

That means you think one of two things:

1. The Storm's onfield success has not influenced people to support them actively, nor has it influenced fans from other teams to watch their games as neutrals
2. The Storm have strong support because they've been successful on the field.​

If you hold the second point of view then you're arguing that teams in Adelaide and Perth will be just as successful on the field as the Storm.

Only a delusional idiot would think Adelaide and Perth will sit inside the top four on the ladder every year alongside Melbourne.

When the Broncos make a grand final you finally acknowledge that onfield success is important to generate a supporter base?

The Broncos were the most watched NRL club across the country when they finished with the wooden spoon in 2020. They still drew strong crowds and were the most watched club in the following years.

How many Storm supporters will stick around when the club ends up with a wooden spoon?
 
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Wb1234

Immortal
Messages
34,342
Haha business really isnt your strong point is it? Half the crowd would already have paid as members. So let’s say 20k paying at gate an avg $50 that’s $1mill. It costs $400k to rent the stadium for that extra game. With corporate sales be lucky to have been worth $1mill once costs taken out.
Memberships would’ve gone up in price due to another derby

a profit of 6 to 7 million with another direct rival i your market
 

SpaceMonkey

Immortal
Messages
40,493
Christchurch you kind of limit the supporter base to the South Island as I’d image the other 4m North Islanders would likely stick with the North Island team?
I think you get that with either Christchurch or South Island. Either way that team is going to get most fans on the South Island and the Warriors will keep most north of Cook Strait. But the new team would still be most people’s second team which would help with viewer numbers.
 
Messages
794
I think you get that with either Christchurch or South Island. Either way that team is going to get most fans on the South Island and the Warriors will keep most north of Cook Strait. But the new team would still be most people’s second team which would help with viewer numbers.
Yea that makes sense. If not Welly, then CHCH is the next logical base. And Dunedin isn't that far down the road. A handful of 'home' games indoors at Forsyth should be well supported, especially if scheduled when the uni students are in term.
 

Canard

Immortal
Messages
35,614
People, quite rightfully laugh at Hobart being included in the AFL.

But turnaround and have no problem with Christchurch? A town of half the size and one that is firmly a Union heartland?
 

Canard

Immortal
Messages
35,614
Interesting you keep parroting ‘losing ABs’ but they have both a higher recent and historical win % than your ‘best rugby team Kangaroos’
Yet they’d loose 100-0 to a club side?

It’s folly from both sides to discount the quality of players from both codes as both have numerous gifted athletes. Despite what you say about ‘Union trolls’ I am ironically been called the opposite on Union forums for defending league against people of a similar vein- it’s possible to enjoy both sports and I feel sorry for those who limit themselves. Viewing wise I generally prefer to watch League as Union of late is far too over reffed. Playing wise I prefer to play Union as I’m a tight forward scrum/ruck/line out work is better suited to my build and adds another dimension for me.

Would love to see NZ2 but I have questions over the viability- it’s like saying it’d be great to have a team in Adelaide or Tassie, sounds great in theory but you’d have to seriously look at the the long term viability.

Also for arguments sake which of the current kiwis would you think would walk in and dominate union?
Not to mention the complete disrespect shown.

The Kangaroo's quite clearly aren't the best team in Rugby League currently, the Kiwis are
 
Messages
794
People, quite rightfully laugh at Hobart being included in the AFL.

But turnaround and have no problem with Christchurch? A town of half the size and one that is firmly a Union heartland?
Far as I know, the the CHCH pop. comfortably exceeds Hobart does it not? Likewise the broader catchment areas of the South Is/Tassie.

But yes, very much a rugby town. More so than anywhere else in NZ probably.
 

Matiunz

Juniors
Messages
870
Far as I know, the the CHCH pop. comfortably exceeds Hobart does it not? Likewise the broader catchment areas of the South Is/Tassie.

But yes, very much a rugby town. More so than anywhere else in NZ probably.
Christchurch is around the population of the entirety of Tasmania if you factor it as Canterbury. Total South Island is about double that of Tasmania
 

Canard

Immortal
Messages
35,614
Far as I know, the the CHCH pop. comfortably exceeds Hobart does it not? Likewise the broader catchment areas of the South Is/Tassie.

But yes, very much a rugby town. More so than anywhere else in NZ probably.
My bad Hobart is much less, I conflated it with the whole of Tasmania.

But still tiny population base for a NRL team.

Realistically Auckland, being somewhere league has a presence and a large populace is the only realistic option.

And this would be a massive problem for the Warriors, who are only just getting back on their feet.
 

Matiunz

Juniors
Messages
870
My bad Hobart is much less, I conflated it with the whole of Tasmania.

But still tiny population base for a NRL team.

Realistically Auckland, being somewhere league has a presence and a large populace is the only realistic option.

And this would be a massive problem for the Warriors, who are only just getting back on their feet.
Auckland 2 would be a flop, there’s not really a big enough geographical tribalism in the city that you’d see in Sydney for example.
It’d be a hard sell to get people to abandon the status quo and you’d likely just be cannibalising each team. A team from outside of Auckland basically gives around 4m people not from Auckland a team and many that were Warriors fans would likely support both
 

Canard

Immortal
Messages
35,614
Auckland 2 would be a flop, there’s not really a big enough geographical tribalism in the city that you’d see in Sydney for example.
I'm 100% in agreement

A team from outside of Auckland basically gives around 4m people not from Auckland a team and many that were Warriors fans would likely support both
The problem for me is that NZ is so decentralised that there isn't one other major centre outside Auckland that will sustain that support.

I also think the Warriors need some clean air after the Covid years to re-establish themselves. 2023 was great, but as we know one swallow doesn't make a summer.
 
Messages
794
My bad Hobart is much less, I conflated it with the whole of Tasmania.

But still tiny population base for a NRL team.

Realistically Auckland, being somewhere league has a presence and a large populace is the only realistic option.

And this would be a massive problem for the Warriors, who are only just getting back on their feet.

Well, purely population-wise, CHCH also exceeds Townsville. I dont know what the Cowboys' overall catchment area is but as noted by others, a CHCH based team will no doubt market themselves as a South Island team so will be pitching at 1.2m-ish.

IMO its probably less about the absolute size of CHCH, but more to your other point re: being a rugby town. Breaking through that would be the biggest challenge, which is why I personally think Welly is a more viable option if the NRL ever decides to give it a crack.
 

MugaB

Coach
Messages
15,384
Auckland 2 would be a flop, there’s not really a big enough geographical tribalism in the city that you’d see in Sydney for example.
It’d be a hard sell to get people to abandon the status quo and you’d likely just be cannibalising each team. A team from outside of Auckland basically gives around 4m people not from Auckland a team and many that were Warriors fans would likely support both
Hamilton is far enough distance, that its close to both Auckland and the BoP area, without it being too invasive to the warriors, if that goes well a Christchurch or Wellington team could come in down the line, i mean the chiefs and blues both have teams, seems like a no brainer to go there first since the bulk of NZ population is in that region of the north island
 

MugaB

Coach
Messages
15,384
Well, purely population-wise, CHCH also exceeds Townsville. I dont know what the Cowboys' overall catchment area is but as noted by others, a CHCH based team will no doubt market themselves as a South Island team so will be pitching at 1.2m-ish.

IMO its probably less about the absolute size of CHCH, but more to your other point re: being a rugby town. Breaking through that would be the biggest challenge, which is why I personally think Welly is a more viable option if the NRL ever decides to give it a crack.
Everyone exceeds Townsville ffs... they came in in 95, and the population was 150k,
 

Canard

Immortal
Messages
35,614
Well, purely population-wise, CHCH also exceeds Townsville. I dont know what the Cowboys' overall catchment area is but as noted by others, a CHCH based team will no doubt market themselves as a South Island team so will be pitching at 1.2m-ish.

IMO its probably less about the absolute size of CHCH, but more to your other point re: being a rugby town. Breaking through that would be the biggest challenge, which is why I personally think Welly is a more viable option if the NRL ever decides to give it a crack.

NQ is tiny, ~500k total (with 350k in two cities) but is RL heartland.

People wanting to put another team in Cairns, don't seem to understand how crazy that is.

How many people are going to attend games from Dunedin or Invercargill though? People will drive the 3 to 4 hrs in NQ to attend games, but the bulk of the attendance is locals from Townsville
 

Matiunz

Juniors
Messages
870
Hamilton is far enough distance, that its close to both Auckland and the BoP area, without it being too invasive to the warriors, if that goes well a Christchurch or Wellington team could come in down the line, i mean the chiefs and blues both have teams, seems like a no brainer to go there first since the bulk of NZ population is in that region of the north island
Hamilton I guess is about as close as you’d get to an ‘Auckland 2’ however it still excludes your next 2 biggest population bases of Wellington and Christchurch. Hamilton/Waikato team support would start to Peter out around Taupō effectively only catering to the northern half of the north island and an ambivalent south. You miiiight get a bit of Hawke’s Bay/Taranaki support but not many would attend regular games. Again biggest issue with NZ 2 is you have no clear and obvious base but a couple of strong albeit risky candidates
 
Messages
794
How many people are going to attend games from Dunedin or Invercargill though?
Yea no idea to be honest. There'll be the inevitable honeymoon period but whether that turns into sustained support is hard to tell.

NZ sports fans are pretty apathetic on the whole. CHCH fans are more invested than most, but even the Crusaders don’t sell out every game despite their history. So if there's that sort of engagement within CHCH for a successful team, attracting fans from further south for a new one wont be simple.

One positive though... CHCH is building a covered stadium and Dunedin already has theirs for any "home/away" games, so at least the weather wont put people off.
 

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