New Zealand 2 will deal a massive blow to NZ rugby

[Wb1234]

Very, but its not all encompassing either.

I mean we see it within the NRL itself all the time. Hamlin-Uele took less to stay in the Shire, Wighton took less to leave Canberra, and Joey Manu would rather leave the country than play for the Dragons...

Wighton 800k
Manu 1.2 million

 

[Thatwasnthighref]

Wighton 800k
Manu 1.2 million

Yep I know.

But Wighton was offered more to stay at the Raiders right? And Baden was offered more to move to the Warriors.

But they both turned those offers down for different reasons. (I was taking the piss a bit with Joey).

So money is an important and powerful incentive, but its not the only one.

 

[Wb1234]

Yep I know.

But Wighton was offered more to stay at the Raiders right? And Baden was offered more to move to the Warriors.

But they both turned those offers down for different reasons. (I was taking the piss a bit with Joey).

So money is an important and powerful incentive, but its not the only one.

If that’s what your pin your hopes on sure go for it

 

[flippikat]

Npc competing with the nrl?

I honestly can't see the NPC competing with the NRL as it is - money-wise, even if the NPC becomes 2nd tier (below test rugby union) without a Super Rugby.

The market size & scale of the Australian economy vs NZ is just that much of a difference. NZR could be able to put decent money down for ABs, but the fringe & journeyman players would have deals worth less than comparable talent in the NRL.

However it might just be that the way forward for NZR is to scrap Super Rugby franchises & invite NSW & Queensland (maybe Perth or ACT too) into a revamped & longer-running NPC - whether that's one ladder, conferences or promotion/relegation. That or add more NZ Super Rugby franchises to dilute our pool a little?

it might be a bit more competirive with NZ talent spread between more teams & Australian talent concentrated a bit more.

 

[Perth Red]

I’d have thought a comp featuring nz and Japan would be a much more likey outcome than the nz super rugby clubs disappearing g because australia is sht?

 

[Matua]

I honestly can't see the NPC competing with the NRL as it is - money-wise, even if the NPC becomes 2nd tier (below test rugby union) without a Super Rugby.

I'm a bit confused by this, do you mean if Super rugby ended/NZ has a number of teams in the NRL? If Super Rugby ended the money that currently goes towards paying Super players would just go the NPC. The same money that is competing with the NRL without a drift of players to the NRL for better money.

As I said in my previous post Sky funds rugby in NZ because rugby drives subscriptions, no rugby and then Sky can't even afford to pay NRL rights because it doesn't drive enough subscriptions.

The market size & scale of the Australian economy vs NZ is just that much of a difference. NZR could be able to put decent money down for ABs, but the fringe & journeyman players would have deals worth less than comparable talent in the NRL.

As in my point above if this is the case why is it not happening now?

However it might just be that the way forward for NZR is to scrap Super Rugby franchises & invite NSW & Queensland (maybe Perth or ACT too) into a revamped & longer-running NPC - whether that's one ladder, conferences or promotion/relegation. That or add more NZ Super Rugby franchises to dilute our pool a little?

it might be a bit more competirive with NZ talent spread between more teams & Australian talent concentrated a bit more.

I don't think there'd be much appetite from the unions in NZ towards allowing NSW and Qld in, especially if that meant NZ teams had to drop down a division. So I guess depends on how NZRs current plan of trying to dominate the unions in NZ goes.

 

[Wb1234]

If I was a union fan I would be arguing super rugby is Salvageable

2 South African teams,
Japanese teams
Kiwis teams
2 Aussie teams and maybe Argentina

No more than 12 teams to keep playing standards
High


the minute kiwi players are all leaving for Japan or France or nrl that’s when nrl takes over practically

 

[flippikat]

I'm a bit confused by this, do you mean if Super rugby ended/NZ has a number of teams in the NRL? If Super Rugby ended the money that currently goes towards paying Super players would just go the NPC. The same money that is competing with the NRL without a drift of players to the NRL for better money.

Yeah, I think I kinda meandered a bit there - but the basic point I was trying to make is this:

Having a 2nd tier that's "NZ teams only" is not the solution for NZ Rugby Union.

There's still people out there that live in a fantasy land thinking we should get out of Super Rugby and have our own competition below tests as the 2nd tier - whether that's just the NZ Super Rugby franchises playing each other (maybe with some added?) or NPC as 2nd tier instead of being the 3rd tier it is now - and the only time that NZ teams from that 2nd tier would play teams from another nation would be midweek tour games or some kind of "champion's trophy" at the end of the season against the best (say) Aussie club.

That would be a huge mistake.

The challenge for RU is figuring out a Pacific-wide structure where the 2nd tier is integrated AND competitive.

The RU world is changing from a north/south dynamic to an east (Asia-Pacific) & West (Europe/Africa) split - South Africa is increasingly hitching it's wagon to Europe (as timezones match) - and that's one hell of a competitive bloc.

Meanwhile, looking at the Pacific rim, right now most of the time an NZ team beats whoever they play against. That's a huge problem if that carries on.

 

[flippikat]

If I was a union fan I would be arguing super rugby is Salvageable

2 South African teams,
Japanese teams
Kiwis teams
2 Aussie teams and maybe Argentina

No more than 12 teams to keep playing standards
High


the minute kiwi players are all leaving for Japan or France or nrl that’s when nrl takes over practically

I don't know if South Africa actually want back in to Super Rugby, they seem keen on Europe these days (matching timezones and all).

Argentina certainly needs to return, as does Japan.. but the big question mark is the west coast of North America (LA or San Francisco or even Vancouver).

Maybe we could look at loosening All Black eligibility to allow some NZ players over there to "seed" competitive expansion teams ?

 

[Wb1234]

I don't know if South Africa actually want back in to Super Rugby, they seem keen on Europe these days (matching timezones and all).

Argentina certainly needs to return, as does Japan.. but the big question mark is the west coast of North America (LA or San Francisco or even Vancouver).

Maybe we could look at loosening All Black eligibility to allow some NZ players over there to "seed" competitive expansion teams ?

Aren’t there five sa teams

two coming back might be good for South Africa

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

I honestly can't see the NPC competing with the NRL as it is - money-wise, even if the NPC becomes 2nd tier (below test rugby union) without a Super Rugby.

The market size & scale of the Australian economy vs NZ is just that much of a difference. NZR could be able to put decent money down for ABs, but the fringe & journeyman players would have deals worth less than comparable talent in the NRL.

However it might just be that the way forward for NZR is to scrap Super Rugby franchises & invite NSW & Queensland (maybe Perth or ACT too) into a revamped & longer-running NPC - whether that's one ladder, conferences or promotion/relegation. That or add more NZ Super Rugby franchises to dilute our pool a little?

it might be a bit more competirive with NZ talent spread between more teams & Australian talent concentrated a bit more.

The solution is to punt unwanted teams from Melbourne and Perth.

 

[Matiunz]

Aren’t there five sa teams

two coming back might be good for South Africa

There’s been up to 6 but 4 currently exist in Europe, think the other 2 essentially ceased over covid

 

[Dark Corner]

No going back Super Rugby seems screwed.

 

[Wb1234]

 

[flippikat]

Great to see - they really are the hottest ticket in NZ sport right now.

It's really heartwarming to see the potential being realized.

 

[Thatwasnthighref]

Aren’t there five sa teams

two coming back might be good for South Africa

SA coming back would be awesome. I think us and Aus have missed them badly. Not just for SR itself but I reckon our test teams are worse off for our players not being regularly exposed to the way SA teams play the game.

But like @flippikat says, they're in a much friendlier time zone now and with their WC win, all seems good for them. Unless the commercials with URC are shit but no idea on that.

 

[Canard]

SA don't need Super Rugby and don't want it.

 

[Thatwasnthighref]

Great to see - they really are the hottest ticket in NZ sport right now.

It's really heartwarming to see the potential being realized.

CHCH sold out too... nice. Helpful for nz2

 

[Brian potter]

It would be absolutely criminal for the NRL not to capitalize on the current success in New Zealand with a 2nd NZ franchise.

 

[final say]

It would be absolutely criminal for the NRL not to capitalize on the current success in New Zealand with a 2nd NZ franchise.

It's a blindingly obviously choice. Christchurch sells out trial matches ffs.
Rugby league will rule NZ, it's literally twice as good as Rugby. Twice as fast, twice as much ball in play. Twice as many competitive teams with rosters of talent worth twice as much.
Sure the All blacks... ok: take all your talent and put it into 1 team .. good for you.
There will always be someone fascinated by a lineout but there's also bird watching and stamp collecting..