New Zealand 2 will deal a massive blow to NZ rugby

[Matua]

No it's not.

The ARU agreeing to extend their participation in Super Rugby for a further ten years will effectively kill what little real interest there was left in club rugby in Australia, which will have further knock-on effects on the Wallabies and NZRU in the long term.

In this country there's simply zero mainstream interest in regular matches against the Kiwi and Fijian sides, there's no will from the NZRU to allow the changes necessary to make RU a competitive product on the field with the NRL, AFL, and ever-increasingly other codes and sports as well, and the lack of a Australian national champion (or any kind of stakes locally) makes it borderline impossible for the ARU and clubs to grow interest in the league and sides.

The WC coming here again in 2027 will see a boost in interest for a while, but it won't lead to sustainable growth without a cemented domestic league to capture that interest.

The covid era showed the best way forward for Australian rugby; an independent national league with a champions league between willing nations after the season, but for whatever reasons the ARU, and RU establishment more generally, refuses to go that route.

This is nothing more than what you wish than an accurate prediction of the future of a competition that is one year old and was created due to a pandemic.

IIRC, two of the three biggest crowds this year in Australia were against NZ sides. The Tahs v Blues game had double the spectators of the Tahs v Force game.

 

[Gobsmacked]

the warriors couldn’t keep hold of one of their few decent players in RTS, you think nzru with a revenue of $188mill a year is going to be worried about a second nrl club?

How much is the NRL revenue???!

 

[Te Kaha]

yeah I dunno. ARU thought that the Wallabies alone would keep Union strong in this country, but they didn't. The game has declined massively over the last 20 years, why? because there is no decent domestic comp. All the hugely talented dual coders end up in League - Ponga, Cronk, Sua'ali, Angus Crichton. Rugby fans of course always argue that they never wanted these players and they would be no good in Rugby lol maybe NZ is different but seems like the options to have a strong professional career hinge on being picked for the All Blacks.

Basketball will be big at grassroots but won't transfer to any meaningful representation professionally, Australia has already been through this in the 90s and again now.

Without "grassroots" there is no professional level. If the kids are playing basketball with the hope of a US university scholarship they wont be playing League or rugby or soccer or anything else.
"tribalism" is not an NZ thing. Nobody hates someone because they live somewhere or play for another team. Its really impossible to hate someone playing for an apposing club when your number one team is the national one they play in. Australians just don't understand that.

 

[Matua]

lol maybe NZ is different but seems like the options to have a strong professional career hinge on being picked for the All Blacks.

I discussed this much earlier in the thread. There actually seems to be more chances for players to have professional careers in NZ at the moment with USA and Japanese rugby. My provincial team (Hawkes Bay Magpies) which is a small to mid sized province, has a team that is almost all professional as the players that miss out on Super rugby are getting picked up by the USA comp and then coming back for the NPC.

The biggest money is with the ABs but not all players expect the biggest money.

 

[Gobsmacked]

Interesting how a Super Rugby ( premier professional competition)
V NRL ( premier professional comp)
Get confused with the All blacks.
I'm not in any discussion about the All black.
Super rugby falls behind NRL.

A new NRL licence in NZ would 100 percent hurt Super Rugby and thier significance. There pie in sponsorship revenue get smaller, their broadcast agreement will be less , their crowds will be less.

We can debate how much less and how much it would hurt but there is absolutely no question that it would deal a blow.

 

[Colk]

Interesting how a Super Rugby ( premier professional competition)
V NRL ( premier professional comp)
Get confused with the All blacks.
I'm not in any discussion about the All black.
Super rugby falls behind NRL.

A new NRL licence in NZ would 100 percent hurt Super Rugby and thier significance. There pie in sponsorship revenue get smaller, their broadcast agreement will be less , their crowds will be less.

We can debate how much less and how much it would hurt but there is absolutely no question that it would deal a blow.

I wouldn’t say it is a certainty at all. There is just as much chance that a second NZ NRL side would hurt the Warriors just as much as RU, particularly if the Warriors remain as inconsequential as they currently are.

 

[Te Kaha]

Interesting how a Super Rugby ( premier professional competition)
V NRL ( premier professional comp)
Get confused with the All blacks.
I'm not in any discussion about the All black.
Super rugby falls behind NRL.

A new NRL licence in NZ would 100 percent hurt Super Rugby and thier significance. There pie in sponsorship revenue get smaller, their broadcast agreement will be less , their crowds will be less.

We can debate how much less and how much it would hurt but there is absolutely no question that it would deal a blow.

And yet you really don't understand NZ do you. You are completely wrong.

You are separating the All Blacks from Super Rugby. It is not like that. Super Rugby is not a club competition. It is a vehicle for NZR to train All Blacks. Sky doesn't pay NZR for Super Rugby, it pays for Rugby, all of it. An NRL club will not change that.

You are simply ignorant of how things work in NZ.

 

[Matua]

Interesting how a Super Rugby ( premier professional competition)
V NRL ( premier professional comp)
Get confused with the All blacks.
I'm not in any discussion about the All black.
Super rugby falls behind NRL.

The fact you think your can separate Super Rugby and the ABs shows you don't understand how rugby works in NZ.

A new NRL licence in NZ would 100 percent hurt Super Rugby and thier significance. There pie in sponsorship revenue get smaller, their broadcast agreement will be less , their crowds will be less.

None of that is true. Sky's end game is rugby rights. A new league team in NZ wont decrease what Sky pay for rugby. Big sponsors aren't going to ditch rugby to jump on one NRL team. Hell, we can't even run one functioning NRL team in NZ let alone run two.

Seriously, I mentioned it earlier but the delusion on this thread is off the charts.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

yeah I dunno. ARU thought that the Wallabies alone would keep Union strong in this country, but they didn't. The game has declined massively over the last 20 years, why? because there is no decent domestic comp. All the hugely talented dual coders end up in League - Ponga, Cronk, Sua'ali, Angus Crichton. Rugby fans of course always argue that they never wanted these players and they would be no good in Rugby lol maybe NZ is different but seems like the options to have a strong professional career hinge on being picked for the All Blacks.

Basketball will be big at grassroots but won't transfer to any meaningful representation professionally, Australia has already been through this in the 90s and again now.

Australia has ten players in the NBA and sits third on the FIBA world rankings. NBL is growing nicely under Larry Kestelman's leadership. There are players in the NBL earning almost as much as NRL players.

 

[Matua]

I wouldn’t say it is a certainty at all. There is just as much chance that a second NZ NRL side would hurt the Warriors just as much as RU, particularly if the Warriors remain as inconsequential as they currently are.

They just have to have NZers in the team and I'd jump ship, even of they were based in Christchurch and I generally hate all teams from that area.

 

[Wb1234]

For mine, NZ has no market outside of Auckland that makes an attractive destination for an NRL team.

Rugby always will be about Internationals, domestic comps below are more akin to Sheffield Shield to Australian Cricket. People like @Te Kaha can confirm this, but there has been instances whereby All Blacks players were withdrawn from the Super Rugby for extended periods in the lead up to World Cups. Can you imagine clubs in the NRL letting the ARLC withdraw Kangaroos players for 4 or 6 weeks before a test match?

As for Europe Rugby being a threat to the NRL, have you seen state of the game in the UK at the moment?

Famous clubs like Wasps have gone into administration. There equity deal seems to have been an unmitigated disaster, and they are looking at reducing the number of teams just to survive.

English rugby giants Wasps follow Worcester into administration

English rugby giants Wasps were Monday placed into administration with all the players made redundant -- the second Premiership club to suffer the fate in just three weeks.

www.rugby.com.au

RFU and Premiership to face DCMS inquiry as Wasps confirm redundancies

The RFU and Premiership Rugby will face a parliamentary inquiry over the state of the domestic game after Wasps joined Worcester in administration

www.theguardian.com

Average English union club loses 4 million quid pa

they owe the tax office collectively 50 million quid in covid loans

English game is broke

trying to compete with the wages paid by French union has bankrupted them

they are looking at cutting two more teams for a top league of ten

it’s so good the nrl went the opposite route of union and only paying players wages the game could afford from its own earnings generated by crowds and tv and not what some rich owner feels like covering

 

[Wb1234]

Anybody who thinks the collapse of super rugby will have no impact on the all blacks is delusional

and the reality is there is no coming back to the good old days of pre 2010

super rugby has gone from a credible club competition to a basket case

 

[Wb1234]

I wouldn’t say it is a certainty at all. There is just as much chance that a second NZ NRL side would hurt the Warriors just as much as RU, particularly if the Warriors remain as inconsequential as they currently are.

Nah zero chance

even if was in Auckland

even at their worst the warriors are a massive club

a second nz nrl side with a salary cap of 12 million and annual funding of 16 million would be a force to be reckoned with

 

[Colk]

Nah zero chance

even if was in Auckland

even at their worst the warriors are a massive club

a second nz nrl side with a salary cap of 12 million and annual funding of 16 million would be a force to be reckoned with

Maybe inconsequential was the wrong term. Poorly run is probably the better term.

Also I’m not suggesting that I’m against a second NZ team, I’m just cognisant that there would be challenges and it is not going to change the whole landscape of the country or destroy rugby union. That is just folly

 

[Gobsmacked]

Nah zero chance

even if was in Auckland

even at their worst the warriors are a massive club

a second nz nrl side with a salary cap of 12 million and annual funding of 16 million would be a force to be reckoned with

It blows me away that isn't incredibly obviously the case.
Imagine 2 NZ teams doing well! Right up there sticking it to Australian clubs every week.... no, kiwis don't want to see that lmao

 

[Wb1234]

It blows me away that isn't incredibly obviously the case.
Imagine 2 NZ teams doing well! Right up there sticking it to Australian clubs every week.... no, kiwis don't want to see that lmao

I agree one hundred percent with your thread

sadly we have to wait because nz2 will be team 20 in the nrl

it will be Perth south west Brisbane jets then christchurch

but super rugby is comatose anyway

 

[Gobsmacked]

The argument that everything in Super Rugby is just a training paddock for the All black only supports my argument. NRL clubs are a pinnacle, a main product! You support your club regardless of nationally and they are massive.
Compare that with the boring training thing...

 

[Wb1234]

Maybe inconsequential was the wrong term. Poorly run is probably the better term.

Also I’m not suggesting that I’m against a second NZ team, I’m just cognisant that there would be challenges and it is not going to change the whole landscape of the country or destroy rugby union. That is just folly

Rugby union killed itself by kicking out the South African teams

now they added two Mickey Mouse teams in the fiji and pacifika Instead

at the same time League wants to expand in the pacific and Tonga and samoa where rugby league is probably more popular now

 

[Te Kaha]

The argument that everything in Super Rugby is just a training paddock for the All black only supports my argument. NRL clubs are a pinnacle, a main product! You support your club regardless of nationally and they are massive.
Compare that with the boring training thing...

And again showing your ignorance. Typical Aussie, knows nothing about other countries and assumes it will be the same their.

You are assuming that a second NRL team will have any support.
You are assuming it will be able to get sponsors.
You are assuming it will have any juniors.
You are assuming it will surpass Rugby in NZ
Your assumptions are based on nothing but your opinion. An opinion built on ignorance.

 

[Gobsmacked]

Rugby union killed itself by kicking out the South African teams

now they added two Mickey Mouse teams in the fiji and pacifika Instead

at the same time League wants to expand in the pacific and Tonga and samoa where rugby league is probably more popular now

Union is in a tricky position. It will always be big internationally as an international spectacle but club competition brands can be bigger like the NFL , NBA ect . Basketball internationals will never be bigger than the NBA , not because the sport is small internationally because it isn't but because that comp and those brands are so massive they cross borders!
The NRL are already achieving this as obviously people in NZ have teams that aren't the Warriors. Everyone in PNG has thier team and even the likes of Souths making connections in the US