Nick Livermore speaks gibberish about expansion

[MugaB]

I’m not against brisbane 3 per se, just not now. It’s not a priority for expanding and growing the game, imo. Perth, nz2 and even adleaide provide better options for growing new markets and fanbases than adding to an already well serviced brisbane.

woudl I give up my club? No, I followed them through relegation to the second and throw divisions. I didnt drop them because they were no longer in the top divsison.
Would I accept that my club wouldnt get a license in SL if there were big cities with tens of thousands of fans and a decent grassroots scene without a club? yeh I could live with that If HKR were weaker than 11 other clubs. That would be on us.

I do support my local nrlwa club, go north beach! But for the future of the sport both here in WA and across Australia we need to cast off the shackles of our two city handcuffs and pokie den reliance. Time for the game to grow up again. We don’t need brisbane3, we do need perth, nz2 and possibly Adelaide

Pokie den lol..


....we dont need perth, nz2, adelaide, we want them, yes, and to be national, sure...
But its not nessesary....
Besides out of them only perth has interest

 

[Perth Red]

Pokie den lol..


....we dont need perth, nz2, adelaide, we want them, yes, and to be national, sure...
But its not nessesary....
Besides out of them only perth has interest

only reason tigers are so hot for grotd is they have a pokie den giving them financial security. Look at how the Ipswich bid fell away with no pokies. The games still fixated on them.

we do if we want to grow the game into new markets. Sure the game could stay as it is, it’s doing very well as is, but eventually that myopia will cost it.

 

[BuffaloRules]

There’s a stack of examples of sports carving out sustainable markets in professional comps in cities where they haven’t had professional clubs previously. Las Vegas raiders being one of the most recent. The fallacy seems to be that no one in these cities supports rugby league now, that’s simply untrue. The conversion then of non rugby league followers into future fans is a generational thing. Look at a rams in Adelaide. No real following of the game yet their brief existence drew some very healthy attendances.

gws isnt anything like an nrl perth club will be. It’s a false eloquence to even talk about the two scenarios in the same breath.

The NFL is the Most popular football code anywhere in the US … regardless of whether the city has an NFL team or not…so it’s hardly shocking that they get a crowd when a new team opens up…Even the juggernaut that is the NFL can’t have a team everywhere in the US

I think you miss my point about Adelaide,,, it’s not about getting 15,000 crowd … the Storm do that,,, it’s about having a real presence through juniors and television ratings…in that city… that has never been the case in Adelaide ..

Perth NRL and GWS are similar in the fact that rival codes would be taking on established dominant codes… GWS have proven to be a failure in Western Sydney regardless of AFL spending $200m there over the past 10 years,..even though they have had 15k crowds on occasion ( mainly the other teams fans travelling up from Melb)… I doubt Perth NRL would be any different in the rest of your lifetime … you won’t be caring by then about juniors and Perth NRL ratings though … you will have a team

 

[BuffaloRules]

Hull. Soccer was king in first decades of 1900’s by the end of century rugby league had taken over as the number one sport.

in usa arguably nfl has taken over in most cities from baseball as the number 1 comp.

50 years ago no one was playing basketball. Today it’s one of the biggest jnr participation sports across the world.

there’s plenty of examples if you look.

Im talking since 1950s…that was the decade that the NFL really took off …and post a little bit of a global reset known as World War 2. And the spread of television. ..Baseball is also not a football code but a summer sport like cricket..played in the football offseason in the main…

I am also talking about a competition between football codes,,. Soccer, Union, League , Aussie Rules, NFL..basketball is an indoor sport …like Ice Hockey

 

[BuffaloRules]

Last time game was on a high here we had 10k players in a city of 1mill. We now have 4k in a city of 2.3mill. Why dont you think our jnrs will increase with the massive boost a perth nrl club will offer?

tv will be a much slower burn. We don’t actually know our tv figures as we do t see the fox/kayo breakdown. It’s impossible to know how,
many are currently watching nrl on tv in perth.

So why hasn’t RL managed to expand 200Kms from the North of England to London succssfully in 125 years , but the NRL will expand across a desert 4000kms with relative ease?

 

[Canard]

So why hasn’t RL managed to expand 200Kms from the North of England to London succssfully in 125 years , but the NRL will expand across a desert 4000kms with relative ease?

Because, like it or not, RL is a minor sport in England with limited finances and very little media coverage, and zero resources.

It's the 2nd biggest football code in Australia with a large media presence and TV coverage.

Nobody is aiming for it to be the dominant code in the non RL states, just to build a niche following like the Storm.

 

[BuffaloRules]

B
Nobody is aiming for it to be the dominant code in the non RL states, just to build a niche following like the Storm.

That’s fine … and what I think is the ceiling for the NRL in Perth … even Storm level support will take some time …also let’s keep in mind that Melbourne is three times the population of Perth

Others here have more loftier expectations though ..

 

[mongoose]

That’s fine … and what I think is the ceiling for the NRL in Perth … even Storm level support will take some time …also let’s keep in mind that Melbourne is three times the population of Perth

Others here have more loftier expectations though ..

Melbourne also has 9 AFL teams, is the centre of the AFL world where all the media comes out of... Perth will be easier than Melbourne IMO

 

[BuffaloRules]

Melbourne also has 9 AFL teams, is the centre of the AFL world where all the media comes out of... Perth will be easier than Melbourne IMO

I don’t agree … Perth is just as AFL crazy as Melbourne and a third the population…

The AFL can also add another team there anytime they want .. and probably it will come as soon as NRL Perth get the nod

 

[mongoose]

I don’t agree … Perth is just as AFL crazy as Melbourne and a third the population…

The AFL can also add another team there anytime they want .. and probably it will come as soon as NRL Perth get the nod

Nah, Perth to me is crying out for more sporting content and desperately want the tourism NRL can provide the city. Melbourne doesn't need Rugby League, it's not a huge benefit to the city to have an NRL team. Not having a dig at Perth but there is a lot more things to do and see in Melbourne than there is in Perth.

 

[Perth Red]

Perth NRL and GWS are similar in the fact that rival codes would be taking on established dominant codes… GWS have proven to be a failure in Western Sydney regardless of AFL spending $200m there over the past 10 years,..even though they have had 15k crowds on occasion ( mainly the other teams fans travelling up from Melb)… I doubt Perth NRL would be any different in the rest of your lifetime … you won’t be caring by then about juniors and Perth NRL ratings though … you will have a team

and swans have been hugely succeful. Interesting you are focusing on struggles of GWS rather than success of the swans in terms of growing new markets?

Putting a second melbourne team in would be akin to GWS, putting one team in perth is nothing like GWS scenario

Last time we had a team we had 10k players in a city of 1million. We now have 4000 in a city of 2.3million. Maybe an NRL team is what we need to get back to the 90's numbers of Jnrs?

 

[Perth Red]

So why hasn’t RL managed to expand 200Kms from the North of England to London succssfully in 125 years , but the NRL will expand across a desert 4000kms with relative ease?

Because Rl has a much greater level of popularity in Perth than it does in London. Because the NRl is a bigger higher profile comp than SL. Because Perth has a suitable stadium (something a nomadic London has lacked until last year), because their are 4000 registered players in Perth and only a few hundred in london, because the NRL grant is $17mill and the SL grant is $2mill, because 40k RL fans turned up to watch NRl in Perth this month, because perth doesn't suffer from the great north south divide that England does.... shall I go on? It seems you know very little about Rl in London or Perth. Always happy to educate.

 

[Perth Red]

That’s fine … and what I think is the ceiling for the NRL in Perth … even Storm level support will take some time …also let’s keep in mind that Melbourne is three times the population of Perth

Others here have more loftier expectations though ..

Of course it will take time, you dont build succesful businesses overnight! Some heartland clubs have had 100 years and wont have the fanbase a perth team will hopefully eventually have.

Storm are the second most succesful NRL club on and off the field in the last 20 years. If Perth replicate that in the next 25 years then the game benefits.

But you have to start sometime!

 

[BuffaloRules]

Because Rl has a much greater level of popularity in Perth than it does in London. Because the NRl is a bigger higher profile comp than SL. Because Perth has a suitable stadium (something a nomadic London has lacked until last year), because their are 4000 registered players in Perth and only a few hundred in london, because the NRL grant is $17mill and the SL grant is $2mill, because 40k RL fans turned up to watch NRl in Perth this month, because perth doesn't suffer from the great north south divide that England does.... shall I go on? It seems you know very little about Rl in London or Perth. Always happy to educate.

And it seems you know very little about Sydney … which would be expected from an Englishman living in Perth.

You go on about the “huge success of the Swans”… this is highly overrated looking at Sydney TV ratings and if you lived here in Sydney you would see how little they are talked about and followed by the ordinary person… There is very little interest around pubs ( I watch a lot of sport and horseracing around my locals ) and the various workplaces I have been around over the years ..Now that Buddy Franklin is retiring, a typical Sydneysider would be hard pressed to name another player still in the team…

And The Swans have also been around 40 years now … so they have had plenty of time to grow something…they get preferential treatment from The AFL around salary cap and draft choices to keep them always competitive…they have never had a sustained period out of the 8 in 30 years…the AFL corrupts the integrity of their comp to give them and the Giants a leg up,, so they have no excuses

You don’t like mention of GWS , although their part of Sydney they are competing with is the strongest in RL and the AFL haven’t even scratched the surface with growing the game there …you continually whinge about lack of investment in RL in Perth , but the AFL experience in Western Sydney should show you that throwing money alone to create interest is no guarantee of success..the amount of money the AFL throws at Western Sydney will make that $17m salary cap look like a pittance


London is relevant to the conversation because I see the dominance there of soccer as similar to the domiance of AFL in their traditional areas … now you are explaining away the lack of RL success because there hasnt been a proper rectangle stadium there… how funny ..

Yeah Perth get an NRL crowd of 40k once a year … the NFL get 80k in London 3-4 times a year now,., so that must the NFL is massive in London right ? Surprised the NFL can find a stadium to host games there ..

 

[Perth Red]

And it seems you know very little about Sydney … which would be expected from an Englishman living in Perth.

You go on about the “success of the Swans”… this is highly overrated looking at Sydney TV ratings and if you lived here in Sydney you would see how little they are talked about and followed by the ordinary person… There is very little interest in pubs and the various workplaces I have been around over the years ..Now that Buddy Franklin is retiring, a typical Sydneysider would be hard pressed to name another player still in the team…

The Swans have also been around 40 years … they get preferential treatment from The AFL around salary cap and draft choices to keep them always competitive…they have never had a sustained period out of the 8 in 30 years…the AFL corrupts the integrity of their comp to give them and the Giants a leg up,,

You don’t like mention of GWS , although this is the part of Sydney that is strongest in RL and the AFL haven’t even scratched the surface with growing the game there …you continually whinge about lack of investment in RL in Perth , but the AFL experience in Western Sydney should show you that throwing money alone to create interest is no guarantee of success..


London is relevant to the conversation because I see the dominance there of soccer as similar to the domiance of AFL in their traditional areas … now you are explaining away the lack of RL success because there hasnt been a proper rectangle stadium there… how funny ..

Yeah Perth get an NRL crowd of 40k once a year … the NFL get that in London 3-4 times a year now,., so that must the NFL is massive in London right ?

Youve picked one metric. By any other metric Swans are hugely successful. revenue, attendance, membership, jnr development, media attention they get in Sydney. And in the one metric you have picked their code smashes us every deal regardless of Sydney audiences.

Again you are being incredibly disingenuous comparing the likely success of a Perth NRL club to the basket case of GWS. The two are in no way comparable.

London isnt relevant for the many many reasons I highlighted in my post. Again your comparing two very different scenarios. If any comparison in SL it would be with Perpignan where the game was played for many years at a low level and there was interest but not huge. The Dragons entering SL has catapulted RL in the region beyond where it was.

If you knew anything about Londons RL history you would know their nomadic existence has been a major issue in building a following and sustaining SL presence. Again it shows you clearly know little about RL beyond the suburbs of sydney.

Yeh the NFL is pretty big in London and across UK lol.

Thirteen Years In, NFL's Popularity Continues To Grow In London

Staring with its first London game in 2007, NFL has built a base of 13 million fans in the soccer-crazed United Kingdom, including four million avid fans.

frontofficesports.com

 

[BuffaloRules]

Youve picked one metric. By any other metric Swans are hugely successful. revenue, attendance, membership, jnr development, media attention they get in Sydney. And in the one metric you have picked their code smashes us every deal regardless of Sydney audiences.

Again you are being incredibly disingenuous comparing the likely success of a Perth NRL club to the basket case of GWS. The two are in no way comparable.

London isnt relevant for the many many reasons I highlighted in my post. Again your comparing two very different scenarios. If any comparison in SL it would be with Perpignan where the game was played for many years at a low level and there was interest but not huge. The Dragons entering SL has catapulted RL in the region beyond where it was.

If you knew anything about Londons RL history you would know their nomadic existence has been a major issue in building a following and sustaining SL presence. Again it shows you clearly know little about RL beyond the suburbs of sydney.

Yeh the NFL is pretty big in London and across UK lol.

Thirteen Years In, NFL's Popularity Continues To Grow In London

Staring with its first London game in 2007, NFL has built a base of 13 million fans in the soccer-crazed United Kingdom, including four million avid fans.

frontofficesports.com

You cant dismiss TV ratings as “just one metric”… it’s the most important … TV revenue being the biggest contributor by far of any successful sporting league..

Why is GWS a basket case ? What should the AFL be doing differently?

Im surprised the NFL can get their hands on a stadium in London.., apparently this is an issue lol

 

[Perth Red]

You cant dismiss TV ratings as “just one metric”… it’s the most important … TV revenue being the biggest contributor by far of any successful sporting league..

Why is GWS a basket case ? What should the AFL be doing differently?

Im surprised the NFL can get their hands on a stadium in London.., apparently this is an issue lol

yes and no. No ones dismissing tv ratings, juts that ultimately it hasnt harmed theAFL, whilst all the other metrics have made the Swanas a signifcant pro sports club in a non afl city.
Like I said despite the Swans Tv audience AFL continues to dominate tv deals in value. Revenue, attendance, sponsorship, jnr development. these are the bedrock of a successful pro club, and Swans tick all those boxes and then some. If Perth can get close to the Swans success it will be a great outcome for NRL.

GWS is a basketcase because Sydney doesnt need 2 AFL clubs. They believe long term it will work and strengthen their national profile and subsequent value and are willing to invest heavily for a long period in it. But there is zero correlation between GWS and a Perth NRL club. I have no idea why you keep mentioning them in the same sentence.

Number of stadiums in london isnt a problem. Broncos having a decent suitable one for more than 5 years is it would appear.

 

[AlwaysGreen]

Well done for giving AFL Red an excuse to talk about his sport.

 

[BuffaloRules]

GWS is a basketcase because Sydney doesnt need 2 AFL clubs. They believe long term it will work and strengthen their national profile and subsequent value and are willing to invest heavily for a long period in it. But there is zero correlation between GWS and a Perth NRL club. I have no idea why you keep mentioning them in the same sentence.

GWS are operating in a distinct area of Sydney as the AFL representative within that region and this is an area with a population bigger than Perth…
It’s also the strongest area for RL in the city…

My entire arguments in this thread is how difficult it is for a new sport to come into an area that is heavily dominanted by another football code and have any real success… even when they throw a ton of money at it like the AFL

I honestly don’t know how you can pretend you don’t understand this point

 

[BuffaloRules]

Well done for giving AFL Red an excuse to talk about his sport.

Yeah … because he needs me to encourage him.. lol

I took a few years break from this zoo, returning the last few weeks…
Did he stop talking about AFL whilst I was away?