NRL Games

[Dragon David]

It would just be nice to see a more competitive competition mind you there are a handful of clubs that are an honest chance of holding the trophy aloft. There's a huge gap there between the top and the bottom. I see the Bulldogs scrambling to fight their way back to the bright side as did the Sharks and Cowboys this year. I don't see much from the other also-ran clubs to get back in the mix. It feels to steep a mountain when certain coaches have monopolised things.

Interestingly the afl scores for this round a similarly lop-sided so maybe it's just a case of some teams having nothing to play for.

If Dragons were winning by 50 we wouldn't be having this discussion of course. You got to find something to discuss when your team keeps serving up nothing. When was the last time we won by 50?

I'd love it if we won by big margins every week but that is not going to happen. I can't remember when or if we did win by 50 in the modern game. That tells me something.

 

[OneEyedDragon]

I'd love it if we won by big margins every week but that is not going to happen. I can't remember when or if we did win by 50 in the modern game. That tells me something.

I'm not sure you would love it DD. After a while of winning by 50 every week, even that would get boring I think. Mind you, I would like it for a while! But how to fix the disparity? Soon there will be 10 teams that don't make the finals in any given year. In my opinion it be the same 10nteams every year with a couple of changes perhaps. The salary cap is not levelling the playing field as it was supposed to, and the NRL won't introduce a draft. How about the wooden spoon team gets an extra million a year on their salary cap for the next 5 years (or so)? 2nd last gets $900,000 extra etc down to 9th place gets an extra $100,000 for 5 years. This should enable the cellar dwellers to pay some overs to attract off contract talented players.
The idea probably needs a lot of tweaking, but at least might provide a bit of light at the end of the talent tunnel. What do you think? Any better ideas?

 

[Number of the Beath]

..... Just off this for a sec I hear on fox that nobody can win the comp from the bottom 8 .....
.

Well, that would be cos they haven't made the semi's - wouldn't it?

 

[Dragon David]

I'm not sure you would love it DD. After a while of winning by 50 every week, even that would get boring I think. Mind you, I would like it for a while! But how to fix the disparity? Soon there will be 10 teams that don't make the finals in any given year. In my opinion it be the same 10nteams every year with a couple of changes perhaps. The salary cap is not levelling the playing field as it was supposed to, and the NRL won't introduce a draft. How about the wooden spoon team gets an extra million a year on their salary cap for the next 5 years (or so)? 2nd last gets $900,000 extra etc down to 9th place gets an extra $100,000 for 5 years. This should enable the cellar dwellers to pay some overs to attract off contract talented players.
The idea probably needs a lot of tweaking, but at least might provide a bit of light at the end of the talent tunnel. What do you think? Any better ideas?

Yes OED it could get a bit boring if it went on for too long. Maybe that's why the 4 tackle rule had to be introduced in 1967 because all other clubs and their supporters thought that it was getting boring that we were winning those 11 premierships in a row. That wasn't boring, no way. It was the best.

Anyway, your suggestion could work but not over the years you say. For example, if the wooden spooners got a million for the next year, they get a couple of good players and they shoot up to say 6th in that year, they then shouldn't get the million for the second year. That million goes to the wooden spooner for that year and so on. It's a hard one and a draft won't rear its' head again when it was challenged and tossed out by the ruling court.

I think maybe there should be a relegation system in place. So if you take this year for example, the top 8 stay in one group A and the bottom 8 in group B. Whichever teams (say 2) come last and second last in group A they get relegated into group B and the winner and second placed team of group B move up into group A. It just gives teams more incentive. This won't happen for sure.

What I don't like is that all teams do not play each other twice and with 17 and then 18 teams, that won't happen. It is just not fair. A good team playing a poor team more likely than not would win both games. Maybe, in that case if the better team wins by say 18 points, then the poorer team gets a start of 18 points as a handicap on the better team in the rematch.

There, I've thrown some ideas in the ring, maybe not all that great but it is a start that we could participate in over the long off season?

 

[OneEyedDragon]

Yes OED it could get a bit boring if it went on for too long. Maybe that's why the 4 tackle rule had to be introduced in 1967 because all other clubs and their supporters thought that it was getting boring that we were winning those 11 premierships in a row. That wasn't boring, no way. It was the best.

Anyway, your suggestion could work but not over the years you say. For example, if the wooden spooners got a million for the next year, they get a couple of good players and they shoot up to say 6th in that year, they then shouldn't get the million for the second year. That million goes to the wooden spooner for that year and so on. It's a hard one and a draft won't rear its' head again when it was challenged and tossed out by the ruling court.

I think maybe there should be a relegation system in place. So if you take this year for example, the top 8 stay in one group A and the bottom 8 in group B. Whichever teams (say 2) come last and second last in group A they get relegated into group B and the winner and second placed team of group B move up into group A. It just gives teams more incentive. This won't happen for sure.

What I don't like is that all teams do not play each other twice and with 17 and then 18 teams, that won't happen. It is just not fair. A good team playing a poor team more likely than not would win both games. Maybe, in that case if the better team wins by say 18 points, then the poorer team gets a start of 18 points as a handicap on the better team in the rematch.

There, I've thrown some ideas in the ring, maybe not all that great but it is a start that we could participate in over the long off season?

You make some good points DD. Just FYI, under my scheme, the spooner would keep getting the extra million for 5 years irrespective of where they finished during that 5 years just to give certainty for salary cap management. If they got the spoon twice in the 5 year period, they would have 2 million extra for a while! The NRL claims that the draw is based on where teams finished the previous year, but still is not always fair.

Anyway, you and I have little say, but SOMETHING needs to change!

 

[Illusion]

Well, that would be cos they haven't made the semi's - wouldn't it?

Yep you got me meant from5,6,7,8

 

[Trifili13]

Problem I can see with giving the spooner $1m extra on the cap is that it probably only buys you 1 top liner (assuming they would want to go to the spoon team) and a bit of spare change to add onto the pay of a mid tier player. And that's not taking into account the management of the spoon team squandering the money on plodders. You will also get the teams running 3rd or 4th last maybe tanking to come last and get the extra $1m as once you are out of semis running there is no incentive to come 2nd, 3rd or 4th last.

Given that the draft was deemed illegal by the courts, the only way it can be re-introduced is if everyone in the game agrees to it. Maybe a points system like the various fantasy competitions, that way you stop the rubbish of better teams saying players are happy to come to us for unders. I would also say a points system might also be a legal way of getting around restraint of trade that the draft is. Must also retain the salary cap in conjunction with a points system to stop clubs going broke.

 

[OneEyedDragon]

Problem I can see with giving the spooner $1m extra on the cap is that it probably only buys you 1 top liner (assuming they would want to go to the spoon team) and a bit of spare change to add onto the pay of a mid tier player. And that's not taking into account the management of the spoon team squandering the money on plodders. You will also get the teams running 3rd or 4th last maybe tanking to come last and get the extra $1m as once you are out of semis running there is no incentive to come 2nd, 3rd or 4th last.

Given that the draft was deemed illegal by the courts, the only way it can be re-introduced is if everyone in the game agrees to it. Maybe a points system like the various fantasy competitions, that way you stop the rubbish of better teams saying players are happy to come to us for unders. I would also say a points system might also be a legal way of getting around restraint of trade that the draft is. Must also retain the salary cap in conjunction with a points system to stop clubs going broke.

I like the idea of the NRL rating each player in the teams. Maybe you could only field a team that is under a certain total, or rate the players monetarily and that total must be under the salary cap, irrespective of how much unders the player will accept.

 

[FlameThrower]

This weekends results so far has shown the huge gap between the favoured teams and the also rans. When is the NRL going to do something to level the playing field? Or will the top teams stay there for years continually playing finals and the rest making up the numbers with little relief in sight? The current system is a nightmare for all but the favoured teams!

Teams being beaten by cricket scores … yet these teams have the same salary cap… give or take the $$ on TPA’s. The level playing field is a bit off centre I reckon !!

 

[Trifili13]

I like the idea of the NRL rating each player in the teams. Maybe you could only field a team that is under a certain total, or rate the players monetarily and that total must be under the salary cap, irrespective of how much unders the player will accept.

Yes, as an example, a team would have say 1000 points, a salary cap of say 10m and you need to have 30 players. There would also be a minimum wage to stop teams stacking their bottom players with 10k each so they can have more money for the top players. After that, go for your life so long as you stay within the above point and salary cap limits.

 

[OneEyedDragon]

Yes, as an example, a team would have say 1000 points, a salary cap of say 10m and you need to have 30 players. There would also be a minimum wage to stop teams stacking their bottom players with 10k each so they can have more money for the top players. After that, go for your life so long as you stay within the above point and salary cap limits.

Sounds good to me @Trifili13

 

[justadragon]

Problem I can see with giving the spooner $1m extra on the cap is that it probably only buys you 1 top liner (assuming they would want to go to the spoon team) and a bit of spare change to add onto the pay of a mid tier player. And that's not taking into account the management of the spoon team squandering the money on plodders. You will also get the teams running 3rd or 4th last maybe tanking to come last and get the extra $1m as once you are out of semis running there is no incentive to come 2nd, 3rd or 4th last.

Given that the draft was deemed illegal by the courts, the only way it can be re-introduced is if everyone in the game agrees to it. Maybe a points system like the various fantasy competitions, that way you stop the rubbish of better teams saying players are happy to come to us for unders. I would also say a points system might also be a legal way of getting around restraint of trade that the draft is. Must also retain the salary cap in conjunction with a points system to stop clubs going broke.

Why is a draft system illegal in the NRL but legal in the AFL ???

 

[dannyt]

Yep you got me meant from5,6,7,8

It's very unlikely that a team can win the comp from 5-8 under normal circumstances. To win, the comp from here, you have to win 4 games against teams that have shown they are the best all year. If your team has the ability to do that, however, you probably would've been in the top 4.

I remember that back in the days of a 5-team semi final system, it was often said that a team coming fourth or fifth couldn't win. For those of you can remember (personally, I'm trying to forget), the donkeys beat us in the GF in 1993 for the second consecutive year, and here's how the teams finished:

Now that donkeys team was great, and even though they came 5th, they were only 1-point outside the top three and 2-points from the minor premier. In a very close competition, a great team ultimately did what was thought "impossible" and won four consecutive games to clinch the premiership. The rorters could do it as well, because they are a very good team whose performance do not match their ability. After all, we beat them on ANZAC Day and they have also lost other games they probably should've won, so their current position does not necessarily reflect their ranking in terms of quality, just like the donkeys in 1993.

It is not impossible, just unlikely.

 

[Illusion]

It's very unlikely that a team can win the comp from 5-8 under normal circumstances. To win, the comp from here, you have to win 4 games against teams that have shown they are the best all year. If your team has the ability to do that, however, you probably would've been in the top 4.

I remember that back in the days of a 5-team semi final system, it was often said that a team coming fourth or fifth couldn't win. For those of you can remember (personally, I'm trying to forget), the donkeys beat us in the GF in 1993 for the second consecutive year, and here's how the teams finished:
View attachment 65244
Now that donkeys team was great, and even though they came 5th, they were only 1-point outside the top three and 2-points from the minor premier. In a very close competition, a great team ultimately did what was thought "impossible" and won four consecutive games to clinch the premiership. The rorters could do it as well, because they are a very good team whose performance do not match their ability. After all, we beat them on ANZAC Day and they have also lost other games they probably should've won, so their current position does not necessarily reflect their ranking in terms of quality, just like the donkeys in 1993.

It is not impossible, just unlikely.

Yes hard to do but will happen one day unless they go back to top 4 .....

 

[Mjab]

Why is a draft system illegal in the NRL but legal in the AFL ???

I actually have no idea , but Ive always wondered about that
Maybe its that there clubs agreed to the draft but NRL clubs didnt ??

maybe theres a good for nothing lawyer on the forum to explain !!!

as others have mentioned , the salary cap should be secondary and a points system should be a primary system with a panel (from all clubs) score players based on skill, reps, SOO etc BUT you get serious discounts if they are over 10 yrs at club , or a 1 club player or they are your junior product.
It would immediately stop these clubs paying unders with big third party deals or brown paper bags to keep these players at a club loaded with stars ie The Rorters

I also think that juniors should be paid transfer fees from other clubs as the original club has spent a lot of time and money on that kid and should be compensated

 

[dannyt]

Yes hard to do but will happen one day unless they go back to top 4 .....

When it does, I really hope we're NOT the team to lose the GF so that another team makes history.

 

[Illusion]

When it does, I really hope we're NOT the team to lose the GF so that another team makes history.

If it's the other way around , I'd take it as the team that wins and makes history ......

 

[dannyt]

If it's the other way around , I'd take it as the team that wins and makes history ......

Well, yes, but I've been supporting St George too long to have that kind of "good history".

Off the top of my head:
-First Sydney team to be beaten in a GF by a non-Sydney team
-First team to lose a GF to a team that came fifth
-First team to lose a GF on a penalty try
-First minor premier to be eliminated after 2 consecutive losses under the McIntyre system (2009)

 

[Illusion]

Well, yes, but I've been supporting St George too long to have that kind of "good history".

Off the top of my head:
-First Sydney team to be beaten in a GF by a non-Sydney team
-First team to lose a GF to a team that came fifth
-First team to lose a GF on a penalty try
-First minor premier to be eliminated after 2 consecutive losses under the McIntyre system (2009)

Ah the memories ....... thanks Danny

 

[OneEyedDragon]

I actually have no idea , but Ive always wondered about that
Maybe its that there clubs agreed to the draft but NRL clubs didnt ??

maybe theres a good for nothing lawyer on the forum to explain !!!

as others have mentioned , the salary cap should be secondary and a points system should be a primary system with a panel (from all clubs) score players based on skill, reps, SOO etc BUT you get serious discounts if they are over 10 yrs at club , or a 1 club player or they are your junior product.
It would immediately stop these clubs paying unders with big third party deals or brown paper bags to keep these players at a club loaded with stars ie The Rorters

I also think that juniors should be paid transfer fees from other clubs as the original club has spent a lot of time and money on that kid and should be compensated

About the possible draft - if I remember correctly, the NRL tried to bring in a draft quite a few years ago. The RLPA took the NRL to court, arguing that it was a "restraint of trade", and the court ruled in favour of the RLPA. The AFL draft works because neither the clubs or the players have objected to it.